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Thread: [Deck] Suicide Black

  1. #1881
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    Re: [Deck] Suicide Black

    Quote Originally Posted by The Big Ragu View Post
    The new Diregraf Ghoul is nice.
    We've had some discussion about it. Basically, it can replace Carnophage/Lacerator, but most people don't even use those anymore.
    Looking to exchange FTV Berserks for some Unlimited ones-Will throw in cash for cost differnece. PM me!

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  2. #1882

    Re: [Deck] Suicide Black

    Suicide is really Aggro Control now in my opinion. I've tested very aggressive versions of this deck as you will see from my posts and I think because of the current format, it is lacking right now.

    Of the recent cards to be released I think the following are worthy of further study.

    Liliana of the Veil is definitely worth playing two of these or more after sideboard.

    Diregraf Ghoul if you insist on very aggressive builds.

    Altar's Reap I think has the potential to replace things like Night's Whisper as you can sacrifice things like Bloodghast and Faeries from Bitterblossom to it.

    In my opinion Obliterator is too slow in the current format.

    With Mental Misstep gone, 1cc spells can become strong again. Aggro control black is now tier 2. And definitely cause for further study. The version of the deck I run now is

    main
    13 swamp
    4 phyrexian tower
    4 wasteland
    4 dark ritual
    4 thoughtseize
    4 hymn to tourach
    3 hatred
    2 umezawa's jitte
    2 liliana of the veil
    4 bitterblossom
    4 bloodghast
    4 hypnotic specter
    4 vampire nighthawk
    4 gatekeeper of malakir

    The deck seems to perform well against the field with a few exceptions. The sideboard is still under construction.

    Personally, I am not a fan of the 4 Thoughtseize and may change it to something like Duress as I want to be able to take Force of Will. And the deck seems to want one more swamp. The issue seems to be the fact that Bloodghast and Bitterblossom seem to keep a great deal of aggro on your opponent. You have to remember to hold your lands.

    And yeah, I still play Hatred if I can which is why I run 4 Phyrexian Tower. Specter fairly often creates a soft lock and why not kill them if this happens with Hatred? Your opening hand is very important. Generally you want 2 black sources.

    Liliana also can create an early lock after a 1st turn ritual. There are just not a lot of answers to planeswalkers out there.

    Anyway, still testing so this is by no means final. The sideboard needs a lot of work.

    Peace.

    Necrowil

    I have seen the true path. I will not warm myself by the fire—I will become the flame.”
    —Lim-Dûl, the Necromancer

  3. #1883
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    Re: [Deck] Suicide Black

    I'm still just not seeing the Hatred build working. A single counterspell and you are done. Yeah, we're in black (so we can discard them), but it's never a sure thing unless they have no hand. But at that point we might as well just go for the beats and leave cards like Phyrexian Tower by the wayside.
    Looking to exchange FTV Berserks for some Unlimited ones-Will throw in cash for cost differnece. PM me!

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  4. #1884

    Re: [Deck] Suicide Black

    its a style point really. simply another way to win fast. if you would rather rely on your ability to beat an opponent down quickly before they draw something to recover, by all means. between all the discard your run and the specters it is not likely your opponent has much of a hand left. nevertheless, i cut the number of hatred to just 1 so its not really a point of discussion. it only works consistently if you get an unanswered specter. then you can kill them. otherwise, yeah its risky.

    there is another reason to play tower you may not be aware of. you can block with faerie tokens and then sacrifice them to the tower before damage allowing equipment and lifelink creatures to become less effective. lifelink and equipment are often difficult for suicide to deal with

    sideboard
    4 Cursed Scroll
    4 Extirpate
    3 Perish
    2 Liliana of the Veil
    2 Withering Wisps

    main
    10 Snow-covered Swamp
    1 Verdant Catacombs
    1 Bloodstained Mire
    1 Polluted Delta
    1 Marsh Flats
    4 Phyrexian Tower
    4 Wasteland
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Thoughtseize
    4 Hymn to Tourach
    3 Bitterblossom
    2 Umezawa's Jitte
    1 Hatred
    4 Nantuko Shade
    4 Bloodghast
    4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
    4 Vampire Nighthawk
    4 Hypnotic Specter

    Liliana is a really strong card bring in against most decks. You may want to play more. But this is what I'm running now and it seems fairly strong in the current environment.

    Peace.

    Necrowil

    I have seen the true path. I will not warm myself by the fire—I will become the flame.”
    —Lim-Dûl, the Necromancer

  5. #1885

    Re: [Deck] Suicide Black

    Phylactery Lich

    As per a previous discussion regarding Phylactery Lich. This deck I put together is quite a beating. You barely need black mana to play it.

    Phylactery Lich
    13 swamp
    4 phyrexian tower
    4 wasteland
    4 dark ritual
    4 cursed scroll
    4 bitterblossom
    3 umezawa’s jitte
    4 signal pest
    4 vault skirge
    4 dauthi horror
    4 dauthi slayer
    4 phylactery lich

    The result is 15 artifacts which you can turn in phylacteries for your lich. Not to mention Signal Pest combined with Bitterblossom and Jitte is SOME kind of good. The deck plays similar to Affinity without all that drawback from being all artifacts.

    Try it out. I added the shadow guys because of evasion but you could play zombies or something in their place, but pest combined with the shadow guys is good too. Definitely keeps your opponent on the ropes as they will not know quite to do with your deck.

    Peace.

    Necrowil

    I have seen the true path. I will not warm myself by the fire—I will become the flame.”
    —Lim-Dûl, the Necromancer

  6. #1886
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    Re: [Deck] Suicide Black

    So, I went to a 44 men tourney yesterday with a totally untuned and untested build. I put the deck together last Monday, played a couple of games, and decided I was going to
    have fun playing it. This is the pile I was brave enough to pilot:

    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Duress
    2 Cabal Therapy
    2 Thoughtseize
    4 Hymn to Tourach
    4 Sinkhole
    3 Diabolic edict
    4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
    4 Abyssal Persecutor
    3 Tombstalker
    2 Phyrexian Oblitetator
    2 Graveborn Muse
    2 Priest of Gix

    4 Wasteland
    1 Lake of the dead
    1 Phyrexian Tower
    15 Swamp

    Sideboard
    3 Extirpate
    2 Phyrexian Revoker
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Perish
    1 Darkblast
    1 Dystopia
    1 Massacre
    2 Nether Void
    2 Ratchet Bomb
    1 Umexawa's Jitte

    Yes, it's 61 cards, but this is far from being it's major defect I didn't play more Obliterators because I only owned two, and the two Muses were a sort of a compromise
    between another beater and a card draw engine (it didn't matter because I never saw one of them in all the matches). The Priests were a concession because I figured I would need
    some black mana fixing to cast the gatekeepers and the obliterators. So, the decklist was very rough, I had close to zero experience with the deck and the sideboard was almost
    randomly thrown together the evening before the event. You can guess my performance wasn't properly exciting, but I had a lot of fun and was sometimes positively surprised from
    the deck. Brief report follows.

    Round 1 vs Spiral Tide
    g1
    He wins the roll, I rip his hand apart but fail to draw a relevant threat. He has a handful of turns to recover while I'm beating him with a gatekeeper and manages to go off
    with some effort the turn after I drop a persecutor.
    g2
    Basically more of the same, with some land denial, too. I manage to extirpate a turnabout, but draw only a priest of gix for a beater. He manages to recover and goes off easily
    0-1
    Round 2 vs U/R Delver
    g1 and g2 are pretty similar, he drops an early threat and burns me, I then stabilize at 6-8 lives, remove his threats, and drop an enormous monster.
    1-1
    Round 3 vs Reanimator
    Guess what? Iona is still rather good vs mono-colored decks. In both games I hit him with multiple discard, but he had plenty of redundancy and manages to reanimate Iona on turn
    3 and 4 in the two games.
    1-2
    Round 4 vs Zoo
    g1
    I hit him with multiple sinkholes and wastelands. In the meantime he is beating me with a Goblin guide. I drop an Obliterator that shields me from any attack, and profit from
    his screw to stabilize at one life, remove the guide and proceed to win.
    g2
    This game is a blowout. I had to mulligan to 5, and he has a very aggressive start of Guide into Nacatl plus Loam Lion. I offer a bit of resistance, but have quickly to
    capitulate.
    g3
    Very similar to g1, we arrive at a point were he has no cards in hand, a guide and a lavamancer on the table, while I have just slammed down a Persecutor and am holing an edict
    and an obliterator, but I'm at low life. Unfortunately he rips a Path to exile like a champ and manages to deal enough damage to burn me off a few turns later.
    1-3
    Round 4 vs Reanimator
    g1
    Turn one ritual into duress + tourach, turn two sinkhole, turn three persecutor via lake of the dead. This is why I wanted to play the deck!
    g2
    I storm him with land denial slowing him down, and start to hit him with an obliterator. He manages to find enough lands to cast animate dead on a Jin and then plays show and
    tell for an Inkwell Leviatan. Since he's at 5, I proceed to attack him, nuclearizing his board of exactly 5 permanents. At this point, I later discovered, he doesn't have any
    black mana producing land in the deck anymore, so I just have to wait until I topdeck another big mean monster to close the game.

    2-3 (Games 5-6)

    Being out of contention, barring some fulminating Ebola pandemy killing 3/4 of the participants, I dropped. Random notes:
    • I always sided in the 2 Nether Voids, but never managed to cast them. Major disappointment of the day!
    • I really disliked the Tombstalkers, the obliterators, instead, were really devastating.
    • The Priests of Gix were totally unnecessary
    • I really need some sort of manipulation or card advantage. Probably the muses aren't good enough, but I really don't know since I never even got to see one of them.
    • The sideboard was particularly bad, half of it was never used.
    • Last, but not least: the deck is a blast to play. The look on the face of your opponent when you drop fatty after fatty on the table is priceless. I definitely plan to play it again in the future.


    Any suggestion, question or comment is more than welcomed!
    Team Stimato Ezio: You're off the team!

    People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use.
    -Kierkegaard

  7. #1887

    Re: [Deck] Suicide Black

    always good to see tournament results. you might want to check out “The Gate” thread. although it seems most have abandoned Suicide or Gate as that viable. I think some Gate decks may be considered Tier 2. but Suicide has been in hiatus for a while.

    interesting on that thread is people came to the conclusion Abyssal Persecutor is not worth it and now there is much discussion about its replacement Phyrexian Obliterator. my opinion, both are two expensive in a format where decks can go off on turn one before you can even cast Duress. Even Gatekeeper is slow for what it does. No one is really concerned with a 2/2 on the board at all.

    Your reports read that you often stabilized at a low number and then played a large creature to come back and win. My opinion, that’s not a Suicide deck.

    Last time I recall Suicide really being hot since back in ’07 when Bill Stark piloted this deck to the top 8 in a combo hulk environment. I think that it could be hot again and Unmask may be justified if the format continues at its current speed. Stark’s deck is a good starting point in my opinion of what a Suicide deck should look like. Small creatures backed up by disruptive elements.

    And yes, Umezawa’s Jitte in my opinion is a must play card in Suicide for the simple reason if you don’t play it, you had better get used to losing to it. Liliana of the Veil is another card that Suicide I think should find room for if not just in the sideboard.

    Bill Stark
    GP Columbus 07 Top 8

    Main Deck

    60 cards

    16 Swamp
    4 Wasteland
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    20 lands

    4 Carnophage
    4 Nantuko Shade
    4 Order of the Ebon Hand
    4 Stromgald Crusader
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    16 creatures (20 if you count Sarcomancy)

    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Duress
    4 Hymn to Tourach
    4 Sarcomancy
    4 Umezawa's Jitte
    4 Unmask
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    24 other spells

    Sideboard
    3 Cursed Scroll
    4 Engineered Plague
    4 Leyline of the Void
    4 Serum Powder
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    15 sideboard cards

    The fact that Stark chose to run Serum Powder in the sideboard should tell you something about how combo oriented the format was and how important it was for the deck to disrupt your opponents hand so they could not go off. I don’t know if the current format is as fast as when Hulk was dominant but its damn close. Most aggressive are running small, fast, efficient creatures. Suicide has to mirror that. Just my opinion.

    Necrowil

    I have seen the true path. I will not warm myself by the fire—I will become the flame.”
    —Lim-Dûl, the Necromancer

  8. #1888
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    Re: [Deck] Suicide Black

    Thank you for the feedback, there are many interesting points to discuss. A necessary premise is that in building the deck I was not aiming to a particular archetype, what I ended up with looked like sui black, but it's not a traditional list by any means.
    always good to see tournament results. you might want to check out “The Gate” thread. although it seems most have abandoned Suicide or Gate as that viable. I think some Gate decks may be considered Tier 2. but Suicide has been in hiatus for a while.

    interesting on that thread is people came to the conclusion Abyssal Persecutor is not worth it and now there is much discussion about its replacement Phyrexian Obliterator. my opinion, both are two expensive in a format where decks can go off on turn one before you can even cast Duress. Even Gatekeeper is slow for what it does. No one is really concerned with a 2/2 on the board at all.
    If I recall correctly, the gate doesn't play Dark Ritual. With rituals (and Lake of the Dead, that sometimes just lets you do crazy stuff) you can usually drop them fast enough. I'm not quite sure about gatekeeper, but it was a nice compromise between the need of extra removal and more cabal therapy/phyrexian tower fodder. I've not always been disappointed by the 2/2 body, since it can still trade with most critters (notably snapcaster and goblin guide).

    Your reports read that you often stabilized at a low number and then played a large creature to come back and win. My opinion, that’s not a Suicide deck.
    My report could have been misleading, since sometimes I dropped an earlier threat that got removed, but you're right in saying that this wasn't the typical Suicide deck, and sometimes does indeed play the control role versus very aggressive decks.
    Stark’s deck is a good starting point in my opinion of what a Suicide deck should look like. Small creatures backed up by disruptive elements.
    Although Carnophage is not as hot as it used to be, I still want to try an hyper-aggressive build with 16 two-power zombies. I will work for sure on the archetype for some time, because I kind of rediscovered of fun is to play it. ;)
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  9. #1889
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    Re: [Deck] Suicide Black

    Quote Originally Posted by Cthuloo View Post
    Being out of contention, barring some fulminating Ebola pandemy killing 3/4 of the participants, I dropped. Random notes:
    • I always sided in the 2 Nether Voids, but never managed to cast them. Major disappointment of the day!
    • I really disliked the Tombstalkers, the obliterators, instead, were really devastating.
    • The Priests of Gix were totally unnecessary
    • I really need some sort of manipulation or card advantage. Probably the muses aren't good enough, but I really don't know since I never even got to see one of them.
    • The sideboard was particularly bad, half of it was never used.
    • Last, but not least: the deck is a blast to play. The look on the face of your opponent when you drop fatty after fatty on the table is priceless. I definitely plan to play it again in the future.


    Any suggestion, question or comment is more than welcomed!
    Glad you had fun; I love Suicide Black as well.

    As Necrowil said you could probably do with Umezawa’s Jitte & Liliana of the Veil.

    Bitterblossom and Dark Confidant are also very good card, but then the deck is looking very much like "The Gate" (which is just a Suicide Variant anyway).

    Perhaps you should drop a few of the big cretures in your deck for some extra kill cards (or Lilly) so you can more consistantly clear the field?

  10. #1890

    Geralf's Messenger

    Suicide got a few new toys to play with. As for the comment you made about Dark Ritual. I really don’t understand the debate really. Nearly every deck runs some type of mana acceleration so say its card disadvantage is just stupid in my opinion. Isn’t have extra mana early a good thing? And if you draw it late and have no use, who care really. But I’ll leave that one for the people with Islands in their deck. In addition to Dark Ritual I would go further to say every black deck needs to have a few Phyrexian Tower for additional mana acceleration and other things.

    Bitterblossom and Dark Confidant are great cards obviously. But both are looking at the long game. Dark Confidant (card advantage) and Bitterblossom (board advantage) both at the expense of life. Worth noting again are both have only 1 toughness which makes them vulnerable in my opinion. And they are slow as you don’t always want to charge in with Dark Confidant and Bitterblossom takes 3 turns before you can even attack in that you play it one turn, get a creature next turn and then on the 3rd you can attack with a 1/1 guy flying. There are reasons why this may be good but it is a very situational card. Its not something you can really play when you are losing. But on to the new cards.

    Diregraf Ghoul
    Gravecrawler
    Liliana of the Veil
    Geralf’s Messenger

    On the first two, they are solid replacements or in addition to for zombies like Carnophage and Sarcomancy. Dirgeraf is clearly a superior drawback then Carnophage. Gravecrawler’s drawback of not being able to block is worth mentioning. Also it only has one toughness making it vulnerable if your opponent runs Umezawa’s Jitte, Engineered Plage or Darkblast. Other then that it a beating. It keeps coming back which is what you want in Suicide. I lost to a guy running those, Bloodghasts and Messengers. All of them are quite a beating.

    Liliana of the Veil, while not beat down persay does multiple things Suicide needs to do all in one card. The -6 function is for the most part irrelevant. If you can kill at will and discard at will, that will destroy a lot of decks in the format. Similar to Umezawa’s Jitte, the fact is you either play them or lose to it as they hard to get rid of. Often Dark Ritual, Liliana is just game. As is Jitte. Plain and simple so watch out.

    Last and definitely not least, Geralf’s Messenger is by far the best beat down creature black has gotten for a long time. Its expensive yeah, but you can play him with Dark Ritual which in my opinion makes him far superior to Obliterator. There are many reasons why this is a must play 3-4 of in Suicide Black. It does many things Suicide needs to do. First, when it comes into play it deals 2 life. This becomes important if your opponent has some type of lock on the board. If you run Cabal Therapy and Phyrexian Tower it can deal another 2 life. This card is the anti-Kitchen Finks. This becomes even more important as there are few things black has that deal damage or life for that matter directly to the opponent. Its something they will have to worry about.

    Next, it swings for 3 damage which many 3 casting cost black creature do not do. This becomes a significant tempo swing when the thing is automatically dealing 4 life off the bat. I’m sure every Suicide player can recall many games where some fool with Islands in his deck stabilized at some low life number and came back to win. Swinging for 3 is dramatically different then a beating from a 2/2. If you have another zombie out there you are hitting for 5 a turn. That’s a lot different then hitting for 4.

    Last it is basically immune to Diabolic Edict and sacrifice effects like Gatekeeper of Malakir or Liliana of the Veil. This is very important in the current format as it can live through the effect and swing on Liliana for 4. It lives through destroy effects. How good is that?

    That’s a lot all in one card. I recommend playing 4 and some ways to sacrifice it like Cabal Therapy or/and Phyrexian Tower. It has lifted my decks win ratio dramatically.

    Just food for thought.

    Peace.

    Necrowil

    I have seen the true path. I will not warm myself by the fire—I will become the flame.”
    —Lim-Dûl, the Necromancer

  11. #1891

    Re: [Deck] Suicide Black

    Just picked up suicide black as my meta is combo and control and i like discard and land destruction. Is Nevs Disc any good for the sideboard as the final slot after GY hate, pithing needles and perish.
    I use Sinkholes & wastelands and hyppies in addition to hymns and thoughtseize, plus jittes, diabolic edicts, shades, crusaders, diregraf ghouls, and a negator, with 17 basic swamps.
    So is the disc too slow and better off with dystopia?
    Also is vendetta any good for removing creatures?

  12. #1892
    They call me a slob, but I do my job...
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    Re: [Deck] Suicide Black

    As for the comment you made about Dark Ritual. I really don’t understand the debate really. Nearly every deck runs some type of mana acceleration so say its card disadvantage is just stupid in my opinion. Isn’t have extra mana early a good thing? And if you draw it late and have no use, who care really. But I’ll leave that one for the people with Islands in their deck. In addition to Dark Ritual I would go further to say every black deck needs to have a few Phyrexian Tower for additional mana acceleration and other things.
    If this is directed to my comment, I possibly wasn't clear enough. I didn't mean that I want to drop Dark Ritual, on the contrary, I wanted to note how playing Dark Ritual makes Obliterator a more reasonable choice in Sui Black than it is in The Gate. As for the Phyrexian Tower: I have to say that I was more impressed by Lake of the Dead, but you're more experienced with the deck and I'm going to trust you. What I agree with is that some extra acceleration (beside Dark Ritual) is more than welcomed.

    Liliana of the Veil, while not beat down persay does multiple things Suicide needs to do all in one card. The -6 function is for the most part irrelevant. If you can kill at will and discard at will, that will destroy a lot of decks in the format. Similar to Umezawa’s Jitte, the fact is you either play them or lose to it as they hard to get rid of. Often Dark Ritual, Liliana is just game. As is Jitte. Plain and simple so watch out.
    I'm not quoting the rest of your evaluation of the new cards, but I basically agree with it. Geralf’s Messenger in particular looks interesting to test.
    On the contrary, I have tested Liliana a bit in this archetype and found her a bit underwhelming. In particular, the +1 is not always advantageous, since this is a tempo deck and every card in your hand is very precious. I was honestly disappointed with her, and end up cutting the two copies I had in the maindeck.
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  13. #1893

    The rise of Pox

    This February some Pox decks have been doing well. While this is a thread for Suicide, I think its always important to look at any black deck to see what they find necessary to run. This is important as it may benefit another black deck like Suicide or Gate which are not doing well or have not placed in anything I have seen of late. The first list is from 2/5 at Starcitygames

    http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=43739

    4 Liliana of the Veil is noteworthy. The next lists are from Magic-league.com A lot of pros test here. They also have tournaments, a rating system and online judges. There are a lot of good players there. And generally they use Magic Workstation which is a free download.

    http://www.magic-league.com/deck/759...%20Delver43997

    There were two Pox deck in top 4. They decided to do away with cards like The Abyss and Nether Void though one ran 1 Void. Also they cut down on the number of Liliana. But I want take a look at the mana.

    All decks found it critical to play

    4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

    I’m stealing this idea. This is important to Suicide players and addresses someone else’s question about Lake of the Dead which has no place in a Suicide deck in my opinion. I think Suicide needs to mirror this mana base for the most part. In testing it allows you to drop Geralf’s Messenger and probably Phyrexian Obliterator a lot more quickly. I used to not like this card as my opponent would play it and it would actually help me kill them. It can help your opponent at times so watch for that, but other then that speeding you up is always a good thing. Having lots of black mana is key for us or any black deck for that matter. Try them out. You won’t be disappointed. I run 3 Phyrexian Tower as well for the Messengers.

    Peace.

    Necrowil

    I have seen the true path. I will not warm myself by the fire—I will become the flame.”
    —Lim-Dûl, the Necromancer

  14. #1894

    Re: [Deck] Suicide Black

    Is skeletal scrying any good in mono black for card draw in legacy? instant one black and x, draw x cards, lose x life and x cards in GY.
    Would a card engine help this deck or is mono black hand/land destruction all about the start and disruption backed up by creatures? eg do we need a mid game engine?

  15. #1895

    Re: [Deck] Suicide Black

    Skeletal Scrying is one of the few card drawing engines black has now. But it’s a little expensive for what Suicide decks are trying to do. Some run them though. If I were to run it, I might play 2. It does give card advantage but it’s a more mid-late game kind of card and it can be countered. When you compare it to the other 1cc blue card drawing engines there is no comparison. Ponder, Brainstorm, Preordain and the like. Black doesn’t have much for hand sculpting cards like that. Not saying its bad, its obviously useful. Just not sure how much you want to commit a deck like this to it. I tested it and usually I was using it for 1 or 2. You are playing threats each turn so how much mana are you going to have free for that?

  16. #1896

    Pox, Messenger, Bitterblossom

    I was chatting with one of the Pox players online and I asked him why the new Pox decks don't run Bitterblossom. It seems like an obvious choice for Pox considering the few creatures they run. He said its too much life loss. That says a lot. If one of the top decks is saying 1 life a turn is too much, what does that say about cards like Dark Confidant? I know ANT runs them sometimes but their spells are often 1 or 0 casting cost.

    Further testing of Geralf's Messenger makes him MVP for Suicide Black. The games where I resolved Messenger seem to have dramatically increased my win percentage. People are seeing the card now as a MUST counter.

    If he's that important, I have thought of adding Unholy Grotto to the deck. Messenger being a zombie you could get him back for 1 black. So far there is no room. And 4 Messenger seem to be enough. Just food for thought.
    Last edited by necrowil; 02-24-2012 at 05:26 PM. Reason: type

  17. #1897

    Re: [Deck] Suicide Black

    The lack of Bitterblossom in Pox also has something to do with the fact that you're killing off your own creatures with 8 spells at minimum. Usually it takes 3 turns before you're going to do more damage to your opponent than BB is dealing to you. If you Smallpox with a faerie in play you set yourself back a turn and lose 2 life. That's why Confidant is also no good in Pox. It would be great in suicide decks though, I imagine.

  18. #1898

    Pox wins trial on Magic-league.com

    Missed the Legacy trial on magic-league.com. Arrived too late to enter. Pox ended up taking 1st place. The deck is very difficult to play against as they disrupt a lot then play Liliana which is next to impossible to deal with. 4 Liliana seems to be the number to play. You can see the results posted here.

    http://www.magic-league.com/deck/761...html#Pox163566

    What is interesting to me is the sideboard. Its seems mostly geared vs ANT and Dredge which are top decks to beat. Not sure ANT is anymore still its interesting. They even ran the white Leyline even though they have no way to cast it. I’m guessing the Dystopia is for getting rid of other people’s Leyline. :)

  19. #1899

    Re: [Deck] Suicide Black

    OK I usually play Goblins, but for variety I have dusted down my black cards, and added a few after reading this entire thread and tomorrow night I'll be taking Sui Black to my club for it's first surprise outing. So here's my list, inspired by my love of Sinkhole and Hypnotic Specter ( Old School )

    MD
    Snuff Out x4 ( Tempo )
    Dark Ritual x4
    Duress x 4 ( don't own Thoughtseize but not sure if I prefer it anyway )
    Diregraf Ghoul x 4 ( Mana Curve )
    Diabolic Edict x3 ( Large untargetable creatures )
    Hymn to Tourach x 4
    Sinkhole x4 ( An old favourite )
    Nantuko Shade x 3
    Stromgald Crusader x 3 ( evasion, pro from stp jitte carrier )
    Hypnotic Specter x4 ( Oh how I love my hyppies! )
    Umezawa's Jitte x 3 ( Game winner without Negator MD )

    Wasteland x 4
    Swamp x16

    SB
    Leyline of the Void x 4 ( Seems necessary as discard fills their GY )
    Pithing Needle x 4 ( considering Chalice of the Void x 4 for storm combo and burn instead, not sure here )
    Phyrexian Negator x 3 ( Risky main deck, but lurking with intent in SB )
    Dystopia x 4 ( Goyfs etc and pesky white enchantments )

    So I guess pretty straight forward old school sinkhole / hyppie route. I love mana / card screwing opponents, so much fun!

    Well tell me what you all think, and I'll tell you how my tourney goes tomorrow night!

  20. #1900
    Bear Cub > Tarmogoyf

    Join Date

    Jul 2007
    Posts

    677

    Re: [Deck] Suicide Black

    Leyline's a good sideboard option, but not for the reasons you indicate. If discard effects were the reason to run Leyline, then Leyline should be in the maindeck along with your discard. No, Leyline's good to disrupt yard-based strategies like Reanimator, Dredge, etc.

    With the existence of The Gate, I find it hard to take more traditional black aggro decks seriously. The Gate has a ton of internal synergies and mini-combos that make it great. If you haven't seen it, take a look. If you still prefer this style after looking at The Gate, then have at it! =)
    Most people blindly suggest new cards for decks. Smart people also suggest what to remove. It's not about what's good, but rather what's better than the current selections.

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