I guess with wastelands abound i can already guess the answer, but is volraths stronghold worth playing? ( legendary land that brings creatures back from graveyard ) Like Lake of the Dead it looks tempting, but is it also a no no?
Comments?
Stronghold belongs in more control-oriented decks. In an aggressive deck, i.e. anything with the name "suicide", you want to keep the pressure on. Using mana and draw steps to recur creatures seems like a waste of resources. If you're ahead, you don't need it. If you're behind, you likely want something better than something that already died once. This is all in addition to the fact that it weakens your manabase.
We've seen Zombies achieve some success in competitive play, but they recur without all the hassle of Stronghold. If you're looking for an aggressive deck with recurring creature threats, that might be worth a look.
Most people blindly suggest new cards for decks. True contributors also suggest what to remove. It's not about what's good, but rather what's better than the current selections.
Just wanted to post this here. It's technically not suicide, but I feel that it gives suicide players a lot to think about.
4x Gravecrawler
4x Geralf's Messenger
4x Bloodghast
4x Vampire Lacerator
4x Diregraf Ghoul
4x Gatekeeper of Malakir
4x Stromgald Crusader
4x Bad Moon
4x Dismember
4x Disfigure
20x Swamp
There might be room for Wasteland, Dark Ritual, or different removal in here somewhere, but this is what I've been thinking of recently.
Have you thought of adding something like Phyrexian Tower? You can do some sick plays like turn 1 Crawler, turn 2 Tower sac for Messenger. It also gives your guys protection from Swords to Plowshares.
I think that Disfigure should be something like Smother. Perhaps Sarcomancy > Lacerator, too.
Just something to think about. Personally, I'd love for a competitive Zombie deck to work out.
"If you're playing Storm in Legacy, you need to believe that what your deck does is better than what their deck does."
it isn't suicide?!....ok ok...
That deck is actually just a conversion of a modern deck that I've been thinking about. With all the black mana symbols in the casting costs of all the cards, it becomes a bit risky to run non-swamp lands, but both Wasteland and Phyrexian Tower have their benefits that may outweigh the risks. I've been thinking about going to 21 lands too, so maybe a 4/1 or 3/1 split of Wasteland/Phyrexian Tower is what I might try.
Smother seems like a really good addition to the deck , but I wonder if that extra mana in its cost would give the deck any trouble. Then again, being able to kill Knight of the Reliquary at any time is a big plus.
I also was thinking about Sarcomancy myself, wondering if it would be better than either 2/2 1-drop. Vampire Lacerator might be the correct one to cut in favor of it, but I always hate dropping Diregraf Ghoul when you need to block something.
Only testing will tell what changes are better and what changes are worse! Thanks for the input!
EDIT: Tested out the lands and didn't like them. They mess with the manabase too much with all that black mana. I also didn't like Smother too much because the 1 extra mana actually makes a difference. Sarcomancy is better than the other 2 1-drops most of the time, but against Thalia, Guardian of Thraben it becomes worse. The only change that I've made is swapping out 4 Gatekeeper of Malakirs for 4 Umezawa's Jittes, and I've really liked that switch.
Last edited by Zupponn; 05-15-2012 at 01:53 AM.
How do you find sinkhole in the current meta? Do you want more draw effects in the deck?Originally Posted by miccel
Extravagance is the enemy.
"It doesn't really feel good when it works, it just feels bad when it doesn't" - movie title unknown
How does a Black Aggro Deck operate? What is Sinkhole's function supposed to be in a Black Aggro Deck? Frankly, I think this deck suffers from some fundamental flaws in today's game, but I wouldn't criticize anyone for trying to make the deck work. That said, I also think playing Sinkhole is clinging to an outdated notion of the format. You see, I don't think mono black has the tools to get its mediocre MBA creatures into the red zone enough times to end the game, and the deck lacks the reach of other tempo decks like RUG that can play burn spells. Sinkhole does not help this problem, because the top decks are Delver decks that can operate off of two lands, and Maverick decks that play mana guys and GSZ to stay on par.
This has been the problem with sinkhole for the past few years.
I don't know if mono black can be competitive right now, but it really should forgo the land destruction route.
black aggro decks just aren't viable period.
you have 16 poor topdecks. 4 hymns 4 thoughtseize, 4 dark rituals, 4 sinkholes. This isn't including the lands that you draw mid to late game.
Bant, Mav, they can drop things on you each turn. Thats the problem I see.
The parallel in my mind is the RUG Delver deck that is currently King of the Hill these days. Both decks aim to lay a cheap threat or two down and to ride it/them to victory by playing cards to keep opposing strategies out of the game. Perhaps if we can address why that deck succeeds and this deck falls short, we might be able to get somewhere concerning making this deck more viable.
A friend of mine have a Suicide deck that is really suicide. It dies to combo because it mainly runs creatures. It also run dark rituals and Some unholy strengths.
Of course, sideboard could include like a mix of hand disruption, but game one is really a coin toss vs combo. Against everyone else it is very strong.
Not to clutter up the thread, but this is my favorite post ever.
Well, when I meet him next time I will make sure to get his decklist.
Suicide Black by Nicklas Kärrstrand aka "Flax"
1 Diregraf Ghoul
4 Sarcomancy
4 Dark Confidant
2 Dauthi Horror
4 Carnophage
4 Dauthi Slayer
3 Sewer Rats
4 Nantuko Shade
4 Dark Ritual
2 Contamination
4 Unholy Strength
4 Bad Moon
20 Swamp
Isn't vampire lacerator better than carnophage? Aside from it acts as a buffer for the sacromancy tokens.
Death's shadow would also be a good card here I suppose.
Extravagance is the enemy.
"It doesn't really feel good when it works, it just feels bad when it doesn't" - movie title unknown
I'd try to put 4 Funeral Charm in the Unholy Strenght slots. Also, I think I'd try to squeeze 2x Jittes in (don't know how :-).
PS: can't get my card tags working. What do I have to write before and after the card's name?
My friends deck is a sort of casual, because he never played it in tourney. Today he would splash red he say.
While there is not a solid list to play, I have found some interesting cards that I think warrant further attention.
Massacre
Predator’s Gambit
Lake of the Dead
As I said, Lake of the Dead is not the greatest card in the world. However playing 1 is not too bad. If you play 2 or more just know that when you draw a 2nd it will probably be useless.
Jin15 wrote about Unholy Strength being viable. The fact is, its not bad in Suicide Black. I was very surprised after testing Predator’s Gambit so it has some merit.
The best card I have found by far is Massacre. It solves a ton of problems. Particularly with decks that run all those annoying green and white creatures. It is also not bad against other decks as well like goblins and the like so try it out. I tested Dread of Night as well and found it less then stellar. This is targeted at white but it kills all the annoying green creatures as well.
So I recommend
3-4 Massacre
2-3 Perish
4 Predator’s Gambit
1-2 Lake of the Dead
Particularly if you play Obliterator. Lakes helps that. Oh, by the way, I tested Demonic Taskmaster and found it less then stellar.
Also worth mentioning is Griselbrand which will see play in Sneak Attack and Reanimator. For us? Well not sure 8 man is doable really on any kind of consistent basis.
I think that's right!
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