Thats what i thought too. But wasn't for sure so i checked what qualifies for a CDA.
604.3a A static ability is a characteristic-defining ability if it meets the following criteria:
(1) It defines an object's colors, subtypes, power, or toughness;
(2) it is printed on the card it affects, it was granted to the token it affects by the effect that created the token, or it was acquired by the object it affects as the result of a copy effect or text-changing effect;
(3) it does not directly affect the characteristics of any other objects;
(4) it is not an ability that an object grants to itself; and
(5) it does not set the values of such characteristics only if certain conditions are met.
Wild Nacatl is disqualified in number 5. Im not sure what number 4 means exactly maybe that is where it is disqualified as being a CDA?
*After thinking about it the card doesnt "define" its P/T it "modifies" them. So it is actually DQd in the first criteria. And 4 would be like if the card said "all knights are 2/3" and also happens to be a knight itself.
Last edited by verf; 01-29-2010 at 06:03 AM. Reason: *Figured it out
What exactly happens with Opalescence and Humility in play?
Taken from: http://magiccards.info/ud/en/13.html
10/1/2009: This is the current interaction between Humility and Opalescence: The type-changing effect applies at layer 4, but the rest happens in the applicable layers. The rest of it will apply even if the permanent loses its ability before it's finished applying. So if Opalescence, Humility, and Worship are on the battlefield and Opalescence entered the battlefield before Humility, the following is true: Layer 4: Humility and Worship each become creatures that are still enchantments. (Opalescence). Layer 6: Humility and Worship each lose their abilities. (Humility) Layer 7b: Humility becomes 4/4 and Worship becomes 4/4. (Opalescence). Humility becomes 1/1 and Worship becomes 1/1 (Humility). But if Humility entered the battlefield before Opalescence, the following is true: Layer 4: Humility and Worship each become creatures that are still enchantments (Opalescence). Layer 6: Humility and Worship each lose their abilities (Humility). Layer 7b: Humility becomes 1/1 and Worship becomes 1/1 (Humility). Humility becomes 4/4 and Worship becomes 4/4 (Opalescence).
I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forumsOriginally Posted by Kyle
612.1a Layer 1: Copy effects are applied. See rule 706, “Copying Objects.”
612.1b Layer 2: Control-changing effects are applied.
612.1c Layer 3: Text-changing effects are applied. See rule 611, “Text-Changing Effects.”
612.1d Layer 4: Type-changing effects are applied. This includes effects that change an object’s card type, subtype, and/or supertype.
612.1e Layer 5: Color-changing effects are applied.
612.1f Layer 6: Ability-adding and ability-removing effects are applied.
612.1g Layer 7: Power- and/or toughness-changing effects are applied.
612.3a Layer 7a: Effects from characteristic-defining abilities are applied. See rule 604.3.
612.3b Layer 7b: Effects that set power and/or toughness to a specific number or value are applied.
612.3c Layer 7c: Effects that modify power and/or toughness (but don’t set power and/or toughness to a specific number or value) are applied.
612.3d Layer 7d: Power and/or toughness changes from counters are applied. See rule 120.
612.3e Layer 7e: Effects that switch a creature’s power and toughness are applied. Such effects take the value of power and apply it to the creature’s toughness, and take the value of toughness and apply it to the creature’s power.
Ok so I googled How humility works and read some of the thread yesterday. I feel like I have an ok understanding of how it actually does work.
I might just be placing figure of destiny in the wrong category.
My question is this, Figure of destiny first off does he have his abilities to change when there is humility in play?
My thinking is he would because it would be in layer 4 so his creature type would change. Then layer 7 is applies and turns him back to a 1/1. Now if his abilities are there to use with a humility in play and you are able to get up to the point in which he turns into an 8/8 flyer with first strike does he become a 1/1 flyer with first strike? The way I read the card I felt like it was applied the same way Nantuko Monastery is.
Figure of Destiny has no abilities if Humility is in play. There's nothing to activate. The only reason you can activate Nantuko Monastery with Humility in play is that Monastery is not a creature.
The type change would apply before the ability is removed with Humility, but everything else is overwritten by Humility's later timestamp.
“It's possible. But it involves... {checks archives} Nature's Revolt, Opalescence, two Unstable Shapeshifters (one of which started as a Doppelganger), a Tide, an animated land, a creature with Fading, a Silver Wyvern, some way to get a creature into play in response to stuff, some way to get a land into play in response to stuff (a different land from the animated land), and one heck of a Rube Goldberg timing diagram.”
-David DeLaney
ok, thanks. That acually makes more sence then what i was thinking.
The Golgari Grave-Troll has a replacement effect as it enters the battlefield (C.R. 614.1c) to put counters on it equal to the number of creature cards in the player’s graveyard. However, if the Grave-Troll is returned to the battlefield directly from the graveyard by something like Dread Return, the replacement effect to give it counters has to happen before it enters the battlefield (C.R. 614.12). Therefore, the Grave-Troll is still in the graveyard and it counts itself when receiving counters.
So according to the underlined part, if a Dread Returned Troll enters play with a Humility around, it will not have counters?
~ Team Unicorn Motto
It will have counters, because the replacement effect applies before it enters the battlefield (it's replacing "enters the battlefield" with "enters the battlefield with counters"), so Humility doesn't affect it yet. The last part actually says it very clearly: the Grave-Troll is in the graveyard when its replacement effect applies.
Level 2 Judge
Card Name:
Dark Depths
Types:
Legendary Snow Land
Card Text:
Dark Depths enters the battlefield with ten ice counters on it.
3: Remove an ice counter from Dark Depths.
When Dark Depths has no ice counters on it, sacrifice it. If you do, put a legendary 20/20 black Avatar creature token with flying and "This creature is indestructible" named Marit Lage onto the battlefield.
Humility in play, last token removed from Dark Depths causes creature to be put into play.
So just to be certain, Marit Lage would be a legendary 1/1 black Avatar creature without flying but is indestructible?
It was indestructible with Dark Depths' original wording. Now it isn't.
Thank you Nonex for the answer.
Another question. Humility and Iona.
Card Name:
Iona, Shield of Emeria
Mana Cost:
6WhiteWhiteWhite
Converted Mana Cost:
9
Types:
Legendary Creature — Angel
Card Text:
Flying
As Iona, Shield of Emeria enters the battlefield, choose a color.
Your opponents can't cast spells of the chosen color.
So my understand is that the caster of Iona gets to name a color but that the ability is removed. Correct?
You are correct.614.12. Some replacement effects modify how a permanent enters the battlefield. (See rules 614.1c–d.) Such effects may come from the permanent itself if they affect only that permanent (as opposed to a general subset of permanents that includes it). They may also come from other sources. To determine how and whether these replacement effects apply, check the characteristics of the permanent as it would exist on the battlefield, taking into account replacement effects that have already modified how it enters the battlefield, continuous effects generated by the resolution of spells or abilities that changed the permanent’s characteristics on the stack (see rule 400.7a), and continuous effects from the permanent’s own static abilities, but ignoring continuous effects from any other source that would affect it.
Random question. If I play Show and Tell, I choose Kederekt Leviathan, and my opponent chooses Humility, am I correct in assuming that Kederekt Leviathan's ETB trigger will never happen, as when state-based effects are checked, he's a 'nilla 1/1?
Continuous effects are applied just before Kederekt Leviathan's ETB would trigger. At that point, Humility is also in play, so there's no trigger.
603.6d. Normally, objects that exist immediately after an event are checked to see if the event matched any trigger conditions. Continuous effects that exist at that time are used to determine what the trigger conditions are and what the objects involved in the event look like. ...
“It's possible. But it involves... {checks archives} Nature's Revolt, Opalescence, two Unstable Shapeshifters (one of which started as a Doppelganger), a Tide, an animated land, a creature with Fading, a Silver Wyvern, some way to get a creature into play in response to stuff, some way to get a land into play in response to stuff (a different land from the animated land), and one heck of a Rube Goldberg timing diagram.”
-David DeLaney
Danke. I was almost positive that was right, just couldn't find the rule to confirm it in my mind.:)
If I turned Gideon Jura into a creature under an active Humility, what exactly happens?
Does he lose the prevent damage clause? He is still a 6/6 right?Gideon Jura
Planeswalker - Gideon [ROE]
[+2]: During target opponent's next turn, creatures that player controls attack Gideon Jura if able.
[-2]: Destroy target tapped creature.
[0]: Until end of turn, Gideon Jura becomes a 6/6 Human Soldier creature that's still a planeswalker. Prevent all damage that would be dealt to him this turn.
[6]
Also, if I activated Celestial Colonnade into a creature under an active Humility, does it lose its flying and vigilance ability? I do know that it stays a 4/4.
I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
The clause that prevents the damage is not an ability of Gideon, the creature. It's part of the effect that turns him into a creature.
Similar to reanimating a creature by Footsteps. It still dies at the end of the turn because it's part of the spell that put it into play, not an ability of the creature.
So what youre trying to say is that under an active Humility, when Gideon turns into a creature, he will still be 6/6 with the damage prevention clause.
Can I just get a straight answer please? I still havent got an answer for Celestial Colonnade.
I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
It's not rocket surgery. Read the card. His ability creates an effect, it doesn't give him an ability. Humility removes abilities.
The answer for Celestial Colonande is the same as any manland.
“It's possible. But it involves... {checks archives} Nature's Revolt, Opalescence, two Unstable Shapeshifters (one of which started as a Doppelganger), a Tide, an animated land, a creature with Fading, a Silver Wyvern, some way to get a creature into play in response to stuff, some way to get a land into play in response to stuff (a different land from the animated land), and one heck of a Rube Goldberg timing diagram.”
-David DeLaney
How does Humility work with the Evoke and Champion abilities? I would think with evoke the creature wouldn't have the ability it normally would but would still end up being sacrificed. No clue how Champion would work.
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