Also which timestamp will took place. Time when Lavaclaw reaches entered battlefield (as land), or when it was animated.
Also to make it more complicated: during play the Humility was under Oblivion Ring. Thus it left play, later returned to game and I dont know how this affected timestamp of Humility.
Edit: Got it, figured it out at least :D However there was other problem. Game took more than 3 hours and no one really knows the timestamps...
Last edited by Offler; 10-18-2011 at 03:37 AM.
So if I use Sorin, Lord of Innistrad, to get an emblem that gives my guys +1/+0 for the rest of the game, how does that interact with Humility?
My guess is it would come down to timestamps -- like if Humility was on the board before the emblem then the emblem would apply last, making my guys 2/1, whereas if Humility came down after the emblem they'd just be 1/1.
But I am pretty far from a main professor of layers, so I'd like to hear from someone who is.
Taken directly from comprehensive rules.
P/T setting abilites are applied in layer 7b (Humility applies here)
Effects that add or subtract P/T are applied in layer 7c (Sorin's +1/+0 emblem applies here).
Timestamps are only taken into account if an effect apply in the same layer.
613.3. Within layer 7, apply effects in a series of sublayers in the order described below. Within each
sublayer, apply effects in timestamp order. (See rule 613.6.) Note that dependency may alter the
order in which effects are applied within a sublayer. (See rule 613.7.)
613.3a Layer 7a: Effects from characteristic-defining abilities that define power and/or toughness
are applied. See rule 604.3.
613.3b Layer 7b: Effects that set power and/or toughness to a specific number or value are applied.
613.3c Layer 7c: Effects that modify power and/or toughness (but don’t set power and/or toughness
to a specific number or value) are applied.
613.3d Layer 7d: Power and/or toughness changes from counters are applied. See rule 121,
“Counters.”
613.3e Layer 7e: Effects that switch a creature’s power and toughness are applied. Such effects take
the value of power and apply it to the creature’s toughness, and take the value of toughness and
apply it to the creature’s power.
“It's possible. But it involves... {checks archives} Nature's Revolt, Opalescence, two Unstable Shapeshifters (one of which started as a Doppelganger), a Tide, an animated land, a creature with Fading, a Silver Wyvern, some way to get a creature into play in response to stuff, some way to get a land into play in response to stuff (a different land from the animated land), and one heck of a Rube Goldberg timing diagram.”
-David DeLaney
The only time timestamps come into effect is if you have two abilities that say "make creature(s) x/x" If it's +1/+1, -1/-1, +30/-10 no matter from what (counters, equipment, enchantments, enchant creatures, emblems, other creatures, etc.) they will apply AFTER Humility. Thus killing/saving/buffing your creatures beyond/below 1/1's.
I'm sure if this has been asked before, but I'm really confused with rulings regarding Humility and I thought of asking about it by taking an example from my gameplay about how Humility works, here goes:
1) I have an Intangible Virture in play with 1x 1/1 Faerie Token(with flying).
2) I cast Humility.
3) What is the p/t of the Faerie Token now?
We had a major discussion in my group and couldn't came to a consensus. As usual we throw out explanations involving Time-Stamp and Layering but we could only agree on the Token losing flying.
My Legacy Decks :
Mighty Quinn
Legacy Knights
FOWless Blue/White Merfolk
My Modern Decks:
Modern Knights
Modern Ninjas
Your token is 2/2 without Flying.
P/T setting is on a lower level than increase/lower P/T by a specified amount
Thanks for the answer, I suppose this is exactly the same as what someone asked ealier about Sorin's emblem. Sorry I had to ask again as nothing ever looks straightforward when it comes to Humility.
P/T setting abilites are applied in layer 7b (Humility applies here)
Effects that add or subtract P/T are applied in layer 7c (Intangible Virture +1/+1 applies here).
My Legacy Decks :
Mighty Quinn
Legacy Knights
FOWless Blue/White Merfolk
My Modern Decks:
Modern Knights
Modern Ninjas
I went back to my LGS with the answer above, but is still unable to get an agreement from the players, most of them still believe the Faerie token with an Intangible Virtue in play is 1/1 (including a level 2 judge) - what else can I do to convince them? There is no point being correct when the majority rule against you - unfortunately that's the case when it comes to ruling in my area . Need your help again guys. Thank you.
My Legacy Decks :
Mighty Quinn
Legacy Knights
FOWless Blue/White Merfolk
My Modern Decks:
Modern Knights
Modern Ninjas
You showed them the rule? A level 2 judge ought to be able to explain why he disagrees with you regarding the rules.
http://yawgatog.com/resources/magic-rules/#R6133
I guess you could ask in www.dcifamily.org/askthejudge/ while they're present.
“It's possible. But it involves... {checks archives} Nature's Revolt, Opalescence, two Unstable Shapeshifters (one of which started as a Doppelganger), a Tide, an animated land, a creature with Fading, a Silver Wyvern, some way to get a creature into play in response to stuff, some way to get a land into play in response to stuff (a different land from the animated land), and one heck of a Rube Goldberg timing diagram.”
-David DeLaney
Yeah I did. Thanks for the link, It was almost going to use it as a last resort.
Luckily we have finally reached a consensus on the correct ruling. One of the reason why we didn't managed to do so for so long was because one of the guy insisted he was correct based on below example (question 4 at the end)
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazin...icle/20091105a
Eventually we pointed out Opalescence as the key to why his argument didn't stick.
But thanks for the help guys - your input was invaluable.
My Legacy Decks :
Mighty Quinn
Legacy Knights
FOWless Blue/White Merfolk
My Modern Decks:
Modern Knights
Modern Ninjas
Simple question:
If Humility and Blightsteel Colossus are both in play and the Colossus gets destroyed does it go to the graveyard or get shuffled back into the deck?
“It's possible. But it involves... {checks archives} Nature's Revolt, Opalescence, two Unstable Shapeshifters (one of which started as a Doppelganger), a Tide, an animated land, a creature with Fading, a Silver Wyvern, some way to get a creature into play in response to stuff, some way to get a land into play in response to stuff (a different land from the animated land), and one heck of a Rube Goldberg timing diagram.”
-David DeLaney
"I'm willing to imagine a TES where Past in Flames replaces Ill-Gotten Gains entirely, and we just don't play Diminishing Returns." - me, 29/09/2011
Founding member of Team Scrubbad: Legacy Legends
West side
Find me on MTGO as Koby or rukcus -- @MTGKoby on Twitter
* Maverick is dead. Long live Maverick!
My Legacy stream
My MTG Blog - Work in progress
As Koby said, "leaves the battlefield" or "dies" triggers are a little special since they happen from the source zone - zone-change triggers normally trigger from the destination zone (603.6d).
Interestingly, eldrazi like Emrakul, the Aeons Torn do not have either of the above two triggers - they have a "from anywhere" trigger. Since it's not a battlefield trigger it's not special and triggers from the destination zone, so Emrakul *will* trigger if it dies with Humility in play.
“It's possible. But it involves... {checks archives} Nature's Revolt, Opalescence, two Unstable Shapeshifters (one of which started as a Doppelganger), a Tide, an animated land, a creature with Fading, a Silver Wyvern, some way to get a creature into play in response to stuff, some way to get a land into play in response to stuff (a different land from the animated land), and one heck of a Rube Goldberg timing diagram.”
-David DeLaney
So, just to clarify on a few things:
1.) Inkmoth Nexus: If I have humility out, and then turn it into a 1/1 flying creature with infect, what will I have after humility is applied?
2.) Same question as above, only for Phyrexian Totem and Thunder Totem? What will they be after humility?
Thank you,
--ABC
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