Layers and timestamps.Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee
1) Both effects want to make it a 1/1, so it's a 1/1. The ability-adding effect has a later timestamp than the ability-removing effect (ability-adding and ability-removing are the same layer, 6) so it has flying and infect. It obviously won't have any of its activated abilities while it's a creature.
2) See above, with the addition of the totems having a relevant P/T toughness setting timestamp.
“It's possible. But it involves... {checks archives} Nature's Revolt, Opalescence, two Unstable Shapeshifters (one of which started as a Doppelganger), a Tide, an animated land, a creature with Fading, a Silver Wyvern, some way to get a creature into play in response to stuff, some way to get a land into play in response to stuff (a different land from the animated land), and one heck of a Rube Goldberg timing diagram.”
-David DeLaney
So does P. Totem maintain its p/t at 5/5 or does it drop to a 1/1? I've always been under the impression that if I activate it after the humility is on the board, it loses its mana ability and it's Negator effect, but maintains the 5/5 and trample. Same with Thunder Totem. Please correct me if I am wrong. I have an important tourney this weekend and I don't want to go unprepared for the rulings.
--ABC
EDIT: Just got it. If P. Totem is a creature at the time Humility is played, it loses all abilities and becomes a 1/1 (does it revert back to a non-creature artifact at eot?). If P. Totem is activated afterwards, it is a 5/5 trampler that loses negator effect and tap for mana effect. Correct?
Last edited by Secretly.A.Bee; 08-22-2012 at 12:07 AM. Reason: Sudden synapses into understanding...
Exactly - when effects are in the same layer it goes to timestamps.
The reverting is not an ability of the permanent, but rather a duration on the activated ability ("until end of turn"). Effects with "until end of turn" durations end at the cleanup step at the same time damage is removed (514.2).
“It's possible. But it involves... {checks archives} Nature's Revolt, Opalescence, two Unstable Shapeshifters (one of which started as a Doppelganger), a Tide, an animated land, a creature with Fading, a Silver Wyvern, some way to get a creature into play in response to stuff, some way to get a land into play in response to stuff (a different land from the animated land), and one heck of a Rube Goldberg timing diagram.”
-David DeLaney
Sweet zombie Jesus...
-ABC
EDIT: cdr, thanks. I think I now fully understand (closet case scenarios aside) Humility. It is ridiculous.
Last edited by Secretly.A.Bee; 08-23-2012 at 01:21 AM. Reason: Ending my questions, thanks for the help cdr.
I am at SCG Denver sitting in my Motel 6 room upset because of a ruling today from the acting head judge on the exact scenario above.
I had a Humility in play, and played a Phyrexian Totem. I explained to my opponent (real cool guy) how this works in tandem with Humility. Humility was in play first. Then the Totem. Judge gave a final ruling of Phyrexian Totem that doesn't tap for mana, is a 5/5, has trample, and retains the Negator effect. WTF. I need to know rulings or something or I'm boned in the tourney tomorrow. Any and all help is appreciated, especially accurate, swift help.
I'm a little confused as to why it would retain trample and not the negator effect. It's not like it's an activated ability, it's a trait.
I just need to know if the judge is right or for the information to show the judge how it actually is.
Phyrexian Totem
T: Add B to your mana pool.
2B: Phyrexian Totem becomes a 5/5 black Horror artifact creature with trample until end of turn.
Whenever Phyrexian Totem is dealt damage, if it's a creature, sacrifice that many permanents.
When you activate the Phyrexian Totem under Humility, you set its power and toughness to a 5/5. This activated ability also gives it trample. Thus, under Humility, it is a 5/5 trample. However, unlike the power/toughness setting and the trample, the totem already has the ability to tap for mana and the "Negator effect" - it doesn't gain them from the 2B activation. Thus, it loses those abilities.
End result: 5/5 black Horror artifact creature with trample. Cannot tap for mana. No "Negator effect".
End of turn...Morphling
Team OMRIAIGTWYFEWARTCAE
Humility + Batterskull, is this true or false:
You'll get a 5/5 Germ Token that
a) has Vigiliance and Lifelink if Batterskull was cast after Humility.
b) does not have Vigilance or Lifelink if Humility was cast after Batterskull.
True. P/T adding is after P/T setting, ability adding/removing is the same layer.
More specifically, it's whether the Batterskull was equipped before or after Humility - when you equip the Batterskull to something, the effects get a new timestamp.
“It's possible. But it involves... {checks archives} Nature's Revolt, Opalescence, two Unstable Shapeshifters (one of which started as a Doppelganger), a Tide, an animated land, a creature with Fading, a Silver Wyvern, some way to get a creature into play in response to stuff, some way to get a land into play in response to stuff (a different land from the animated land), and one heck of a Rube Goldberg timing diagram.”
-David DeLaney
If Humility is in play and I have already played a land, can I play Rock Jockey?
No, Rock Jockey only loses its abilities once it's on the battlefield. It still has a casting restriction.
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Hey there, I have a question about our old friend Humility and Maga, Traitor to Mortals.
If I pay BBB5 to cast Maga, and there is a Humility on board is it correct to understand that Maga will enter the battlefield with 5x +1/+1 counters on it and therefor be 6/6 (due to it no longer being 0/0 but actually 1/1), but that my opponent(s) won't be dealt 5 dmg?
Or does it enter as a meek 1/1 no matter how much mana I spend casting it?
Thanks! :)
As you can see, Maga has two abilities - an as-ETB and a when-ETB. As-ETB happens before it enters the battlefield, so Humility is not affecting it at that time. When-ETB happens after it enters the battlefield, so Humility is affecting it at that time. It ETBs with counters, but there is no trigger.
“It's possible. But it involves... {checks archives} Nature's Revolt, Opalescence, two Unstable Shapeshifters (one of which started as a Doppelganger), a Tide, an animated land, a creature with Fading, a Silver Wyvern, some way to get a creature into play in response to stuff, some way to get a land into play in response to stuff (a different land from the animated land), and one heck of a Rube Goldberg timing diagram.”
-David DeLaney
I belive this is not true, but would like a confirmation.
Thanks.
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
I am here for the same exact reason. I saw this too. I suspect creatures are defined as being on the battlefield, and that cycling Gempalm Incinerator (as an example) is the effect of a creature card.
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Humility
Enchantment, 2WW
All creatures lose all abilities and are 1/1.
Creatures are only creatures on the battlefield. In all other zones, they are creature cards. Note the distinction.
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Find me on MTGO as Koby or rukcus -- @MTGKoby on Twitter
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I have a Humility out in play. I then resolve Gideon Jura. Next turn, when I activate his +0 ability, what happens?
6/6, prevent all damage dealt to him. No other abilities.
Gideon Jura's +0 modifies the soon to be animated Gideon's P/T and abilities at a later time stamp than Humility; and so they supercede.
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Find me on MTGO as Koby or rukcus -- @MTGKoby on Twitter
* Maverick is dead. Long live Maverick!
My Legacy stream
My MTG Blog - Work in progress
So something i may not understand very well that was mentioned early in this thread (I may be looking at this wrong)(Also here are two scenarios):
SCENARIO 1:
I have a 1/3 creature that can switch it's power and toughness
I switch it's power and toughness. It's now a 3/1.
My opponents gives it -0/-1.
It dies.
OR SCENARIO 2:
Repeat first three steps.
It does not die because time stamps, and is now a 2/1.
Which is correct?
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