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Thread: How Humility Works

  1. #21
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    Re: How Humility Works

    What happens if I play Urborg, Kormus Bell, and Humility? Or maybe Nature's Revolt and Humility? Anyway, do the lands lose their ability to tap for mana? I don't really understand how lands get this ability. Is it an ability on the card, so Humility takes it away, or is it granted by the -Swamp or -Mountain subtype, and in that case, does Humility take away that subtype?

  2. #22
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    Re: How Humility Works

    Animated lands can't tap for mana.
    The ability to tap for mana is just that an ability.
    Humility removes all abilities.
    Here is an old ruling from Saturday School. Probably one of the only rulings concerning Humility that is still accurate.
    Q: My opponent plays Nature's Revolt. On my turn, I play Humility. Can we tap our creature-lands for mana anymore? What happens if they’re played in the opposite order?
    --Eu-Ming Lee

    A: You can’t tap the creature-lands for mana at all, regardless of the order the enchantments are played in. Humility takes away the abilities of all creatures, including the mana abilities of the creature-lands. If there had been a later effect giving mana abilities, you could use them, but since Nature’s Revolt just animates the lands, their built-in abilities will always be removed by Humility.

  3. #23
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    Re: How Humility Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Lego_Army_Man View Post
    I don't really understand how lands get this ability.
    The ability to tap for mana is granted by the rules to all lands with a basic land subtype, so it is inderectly granted by any effect that gives a Land a basic land type. Those effects are always applied in layer 4 (Type Changing), so when applying humilitys ability-removing in layer 5, the tap for mana ability will always be there for each land with a basic land type, so it will be removed by humility.

  4. #24
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    Re: How Humility Works

    ...Unless Riftstone Portal gets tossed in the yard after Humility is played.
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  5. #25
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    Re: How Humility Works

    Quote Originally Posted by SpatulaOfTheAges View Post
    ...Unless Riftstone Portal gets tossed in the yard after Humility is played.
    Incorrect. The Portal will grant the ability regardless of when it was thrown into the yard.
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  6. #26
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    Re: How Humility Works

    Quote Originally Posted by on1y0ne View Post
    Incorrect. The Portal will grant the ability regardless of when it was thrown into the yard.
    Why?
    Shouldn't it work similarily to Anger?
    Riftstone Portal and Humility both have continuous affects that apply in layer 5. Neither is a characteristic-setting abilities so they are applied in time-stamp order.

  7. #27
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    Re: How Humility Works

    Unless I am mistaken the new Comp Rules updates removed timestamps altogether.
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  8. #28
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    Re: How Humility Works

    Anyone interested can look at the most recent changes to the comp rules here.
    The complete comp rules are found here.
    The Humility and Layers deal was changed some time ago, however.
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  9. #29
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    Re: How Humility Works

    Quote Originally Posted by on1y0ne View Post
    Anyone interested can look at the most recent changes to the comp rules here.
    The complete comp rules are found here.
    The Humility and Layers deal was changed some time ago, however.
    Perhaps I am just tired but I am not seeing where in rule 418.5 that indicates that a Riftstone portal with automatically trump Humility.

    Unless I am mistaken the new Comp Rules updates removed timestamps altogether.
    Considering the amount of times "timestamp is used in section 418.5 (15 times) I don't think that is the case.

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    Re: How Humility Works

    I spent a few hours going through the archives of the Judges' discussion boards, and I cannot find any reference material for my statement regarding the Riftstone Portal. I do recall a written discussion regarding a similar situation, yet I am not sure where it was.

    That being said, without source material to back it up, I would have to retract my earlier statement, and offer an apology if I gave incorrect information. If I do find the information I believed was true, I will post the source of it, and a link if possible.

    For now, I will say that, yes the Portal does nothing once Humility comes into play, but if it thrown into the bin after the Humility has been in play, then your animated lands will then be able to tap for G or W.

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  11. #31
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    Re: How Humility Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Cait_Sith View Post
    Unless I am mistaken the new Comp Rules updates removed timestamps altogether.
    No, I was wrong, sorry about making you look like a jerk. Apparently "timestamps" come into play when things happen in the same layer. Otherwise they just happen in layer order, regardless of when they CIP. *Shrug* I'll just call a judge, and hopefully he's smart

  12. #32
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    Re: How Humility Works

    Both Riftstone Portal's ability and Humility's "lose all abilities" ability apply in layer 5, and they do not depend on each other, so they are applied in timestamp order. I've used this trick many times with Anger in RGSA v. Rabid Wombat.
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  13. #33

    Re: How Humility Works

    What happens to the comes into play abilities of creatures? Like harmonic sliver's comes into play ability? They comes into play first then ability resolves then become a useless 1/1 or do they become a useless 1/1 immediately without the ability resolving?

  14. #34
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    Re: How Humility Works

    The creature comes into play as a 1/1 creature without abilities, so the CiP-Ability won't be there to trigger

  15. #35

    Re: How Humility Works

    Svogthos the Relentless Tomb
    Land
    Tap: Add 1 to your mana pool.
    3BG: Until end of turn, Svogthos, the Restless Tomb becomes a black and green Plant Zombie creature with “This creature’s power and toughness are each equal to the number of creature cards in your graveyard.” It’s still a land.

    Under Humility, is this guy a 1/1 or X/X? The tricky part is whether layer 6a applies.

  16. #36
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    Re: How Humility Works

    Quote Originally Posted by CompRules
    405.2 Some objects have intrinsic static abilities which state that the object "has" one or more characteristic values; "is" one or more particular types, supertypes, subtypes, or colors; or that one or more of its characteristics "is" or "are" a particular value. These abilities are characteristic-setting abilities. Abilities of an object that affect the characteristics of another object are not characteristic-setting abilities; neither are abilities that an object grants to itself. See rule 201, "Characteristics," and rule 418.5a.
    so neither ability is a characteristic-setting ability, and both apply in layer 6b in timestamp order

  17. #37

    Re: How Humility Works

    Quote Originally Posted by jamest View Post
    Under Humility, is this guy a 1/1 or X/X? The tricky part is whether layer 6a applies.
    The important part of the rule Locutus quoted is the second part - normally a P/T setting ability like Svogthos's would be a CSA, but because something gave it that ability, it cannot be a CSA.
    “It's possible. But it involves... {checks archives} Nature's Revolt, Opalescence, two Unstable Shapeshifters (one of which started as a Doppelganger), a Tide, an animated land, a creature with Fading, a Silver Wyvern, some way to get a creature into play in response to stuff, some way to get a land into play in response to stuff (a different land from the animated land), and one heck of a Rube Goldberg timing diagram.
    -David DeLaney

  18. #38
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    Re: How Humility Works

    What layer is Wonder's graveyard ability applied in? Does Humility take the flying away?
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  19. #39
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    Re: How Humility Works

    Quote Originally Posted by CompRules
    418.5a The values of an object's characteristics are determined by starting with the actual object, then applying continuous effects in a series of layers in the following order: (1) copy effects (see rule 503, "Copying Objects"); (2) control-changing effects; (3) text-changing effects; (4) type-, subtype-, and supertype-changing effects; (5) all other continuous effects, except those that change power and/or toughness; and (6) power- and/or toughness-changing effects. Inside each layer from 1 through 5, apply effects from characteristic-setting abilities first, then all other effects in timestamp order.
    Humility's "lose all abilities" is applied in Layer 5, as is Wonder's flying, so if Wonder is put into the graveyard after Humility comes into play, your creatures will have flying, if Humility comes into play after Wonder hits the grave, they won't.

  20. #40
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    Re: How Humility Works

    So did Carter solve Opalescence?

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