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Thread: How Humility Works

  1. #41
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    Mordenkain's Avatar
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    Re: How Humility Works

    Does PandeBurst combo work under humility?
    Also, how does Opalescence interact with humility?

    Thanks in advance.
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  2. #42

    Re: How Humility Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordenkain View Post
    Does PandeBurst combo work under humility?
    Also, how does Opalescence interact with humility?

    Thanks in advance.
    - Mordenkain
    First one i have no idea.

    As for Opalescence, if Humility came first, you have creatures, if Humility came AFTER Op, you have1/1's

  3. #43
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    Re: How Humility Works

    Here's the official ruling from Wizards:

    The interaction between Humility and Opalescence has changed due to the new layering rules. The type-changing effect still applies at layer 4, like it previously did, but the rest happens in the applicable layers. The rest of it will apply even if the permanent loses its ability before it's finished applying. So if Opalescence, Humility, and Worship are in play and Opalescence came into play before Humility, the following is true: Layer 4: Humility and Worship each become creatures that are still enchantments. (Opalescence). Layer 5: Humility and Worship each lose their abilities. (Humility) Layer 6: Humility becomes 4/4 and Worship becomes 4/4. (Opalescence). Humility becomes 1/1 and Worship becomes 1/1 (Humility). But if Humility came into play before Opalescence, the following is true: Layer 4: Humility and Worship each become creatures that are still enchantments (Opalescence). Layer 5: Humility and Worship each lose their abilities (Humility). Layer 6: Humility becomes 1/1 and Worship becomes 1/1 (Humility). Humility becomes 4/4 and Worship becomes 4/4 (Opalescence).
    The only time timestamp order matters is in Layer 6. They always lose all their abilities, it's just a question of whether they become 1/1s or 4/4s. It doesn't get much more complicated if you add another Opalescence:

    With a Humility and two Opalescences in play, if Humility has the latest timestamp, then all creatures are 1/1 with no abilities. If the timestamp order is Opalescence, Humility, Opalescence, the second Opalescence is 1/1, and the Humility and first Opalescence are 4/4. If Humility has the earliest timestamp, then everything is 4/4.

  4. #44

    Re: How Humility Works

    Change the freaking rules!

    Make it do exactly what it looks like it does. EVERYTHING (no timestamp) is a freaking 1/1 w/o abilities. It makes the card read easier, and it makes all these dumb rules go away!

  5. #45

    Re: How Humility Works

    Ugh. Necrophiliacs. Leave the poor Humility thread alone.

    Note though, that now that it works with timestamps it does do exactly what it says it does.

    If you're looking to make "all those dumb rules go away", you may be in the wrong forum. Try an Alpha league.
    “It's possible. But it involves... {checks archives} Nature's Revolt, Opalescence, two Unstable Shapeshifters (one of which started as a Doppelganger), a Tide, an animated land, a creature with Fading, a Silver Wyvern, some way to get a creature into play in response to stuff, some way to get a land into play in response to stuff (a different land from the animated land), and one heck of a Rube Goldberg timing diagram.
    -David DeLaney

  6. #46
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    Re: How Humility Works

    I'd advise printing out what Lego Army Man posted if you run a deck with either of these cards.

    And if you run Humility and don't either A. Know all the layering rules perfectly (Which like 6 people in existence do) or B. Keep a copy of them accessible to you at all times, you're dumb.

    Fortunately Opalesence isn't really run in Legacy (Except in the uber-rogue OpaLeyline), and we have snipers on the rooftops across from the dwelling of one Zach Tartell in case he ever decides to experiment with one in Enchantress.

    Quote Originally Posted by majikal View Post
    Damn it, Taco, that exactly sums up my opinion on the matter. I need to buy you a beer for that post.

  7. #47

    Re: How Humility Works

    How does humility work with evoke?? Does Humility only affect creatures in play, or does it affect them in the graveyard too? (sorry if this is a dumb question as I am new to magic)

  8. #48

    Re: How Humility Works

    Quote Originally Posted by ssilver View Post
    How does humility work with evoke?? Does Humility only affect creatures in play, or does it affect them in the graveyard too? (sorry if this is a dumb question as I am new to magic)
    Not a dumb question.

    It only hits creatures in play. If they arn't in play they are no longer creatures, and are now creature cards. So critters in the grave/hand still have abilities. So you can use Elvish Spirit Guide, or Ichorid's Recursive ability (although, he loses haste, but also dosn't die EOT)


    Also welcome to the source!

  9. #49
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    Re: How Humility Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape View Post
    I'd advise printing out what Lego Army Man posted if you run a deck with either of these cards.

    And if you run Humility and don't either A. Know all the layering rules perfectly (Which like 6 people in existence do) or B. Keep a copy of them accessible to you at all times, you're dumb.
    Just don't bring these things with you to a tournament. Outside notes are a no no.

  10. #50
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    Re: How Humility Works

    Quote Originally Posted by ssilver View Post
    How does humility work with evoke?? Does Humility only affect creatures in play, or does it affect them in the graveyard too? (sorry if this is a dumb question as I am new to magic)
    502.74a. Evoke represents two abilities: a static ability that functions in any zone from which the card can be played and a triggered ability that functions in play. "Evoke [cost]" means "You may play this card by paying [cost] rather than paying its mana cost" and "When this permanent comes into play, if its evoke cost was paid, its controller sacrifices it." Paying a card's evoke cost follows the rules for paying alternative costs in rules 409.1b and 409.1f-h.
    The static ability is an alternate cost that is unaffected by Humility (think Vine Dryad). However, the CIP trigger disappears (think Eternal Witness), so the end result is that under Humility, Shriekmaw is a 1/1 for 1B, and will stick around.
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  11. #51

    Re: How Humility Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Nihil View Post
    The static ability is an alternate cost that is unaffected by Humility (think Vine Dryad). However, the CIP trigger disappears (think Eternal Witness), so the end result is that under Humility, Shriekmaw is a 1/1 for 1B, and will stick around.
    Just relized i answered half you question. Nihil is right on what he said as well...


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  12. #52
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    Re: How Humility Works

    How does Humility interact with Urza's Factory? Are the Assembly Workers 2/2's or 1/1's? Thanks.

  13. #53
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    Re: How Humility Works

    They are 1/1. Humility doesn't make a diference between tokens and creature cards.

    More precisely, the tokens come into play as 2/2 due to the characteristic-setting ability of the Factory (Layer 6a), then Humility makes them 1/1 in Layer 6b.

    Inside layer 6, apply effects in a series of sublayers in the following order:
    (6a) effects from characteristic-setting abilities;
    (6b) all other effects not specifically applied in 6c, 6d, or 6e;
    (6c) changes from counters;
    (6d) effects from static abilities that modify power and/or toughness but don't set power and/or toughness to a specific number or value; and
    (6e) effects that switch a creature's power and toughness.
    Within each sublayer, apply effects in timestamp order. Note that dependency may alter the order in which effects are applied within a layer or sublayer.
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  14. #54

    Re: How Humility Works

    Close, Taurelin07. There's no CDA (Ajani Goldmane's Avatar token is an example of a token with a CDA).

    The token's power and toughness are base characteristics just like any old creature's, on top of which all the layers of effects (including CDAs) are applied.

    216.1. Some effects put tokens into play. A token is controlled by whomever put it into play and owned by the controller of the spell or ability that created it. (If no player controlled the effect that created it, the token is owned by whomever put it into play.) The spell or ability may define any number of characteristics for the token. This becomes the token's "text." The characteristics defined this way are functionally equivalent to the characteristics that are printed on a card; for example, they define the token's copiable values. A token doesn't have any characteristics not defined by the spell or ability that created it.
    “It's possible. But it involves... {checks archives} Nature's Revolt, Opalescence, two Unstable Shapeshifters (one of which started as a Doppelganger), a Tide, an animated land, a creature with Fading, a Silver Wyvern, some way to get a creature into play in response to stuff, some way to get a land into play in response to stuff (a different land from the animated land), and one heck of a Rube Goldberg timing diagram.
    -David DeLaney

  15. #55

    Re: How Humility Works

    Hi, I have a question about Arcbound Creatures...

    Is it correct that when you play a Arcbound Worker after Humility it's just a vanilla 1/1 without a counter.

    However if you already had the Worker and your opponent play Humility, Arcbound Worker would become a 1/1 with a +1/+1 counter on it, so a 2/2. Is this correct?

    And the Modular effect doesn't work too right?? So if a an Arcbound Worker with counters goes to the yard, those counters are lost.

    Or am I completely wrong...

    Thanks in advance

    BB

  16. #56
    Hold on! I have a 12/12
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    Re: How Humility Works

    Actually, if you play an Arcbound Worker with Humility in play, it would come into play with the counter thus being 2/2.

    That is because an ability like "~This~ comes into play with ~something~" creates a replacement effect that changes the coming into play. Instead of coming into play, the creature comes into play with ~something~. It doesn't matter that the ability creating that replacement effect is gone as soon as the creature is in play, it already has its counter by then.

    You are correct about the second part, Humility will prevent a "Modular Creature" from giving its counters away when it dies.

  17. #57

    Re: How Humility Works

    alright, this question was answered early in this thread, but a couple of other people have said against it.

    humility is in play, you activate nantuko monastery, of course its a 4/4, that has been said too many times now to get wrong, but does it get first strike, the begining of the thread the answer would be yes, but people are saying they changed stuff and all abilities are lost no matter what.
    Everyone at my shop say it becomes a 4/4 but no first strike. in my own thinking with the rules. the adding of first strike and removing all abilities with humilit happens in layer 5. if so it should be a timestamp right? if so, it should have first strike. Am i right? thanx in advance

  18. #58
    Hold on! I have a 12/12
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    Re: How Humility Works

    You are right. Your Monastery will have First Strike.

  19. #59
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    Re: How Humility Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape View Post
    I figure there should always be a quick reference thread for Humility-based interactions in case your head is hurting. Plus, it'll give us a chance to discuss the best way to explain it to people.

    But for now, I have a question of my own. How exactly do Humility and Mishra's Factory interact now, and what's the best way to explain this to someone?

    Thanks.
    Humility is probably one of the most confusing cards to the average player. I have seen it on multiple ask the judge type articles and forums. Congrats to the family here at the source for a well rounded and thorough explaination.

  20. #60

    Re: How Humility Works

    Hey, i was just wondering how does humility work with phantom nishoba?

    Thanks in advance

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