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Thread: How Humility Works

  1. #81
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    Re: How Humility Works

    That's different. They have trigered/static abilities that work from the graveyard, but in case of Wonder you have to mind the timestamp rule.

    If Humility is in play, then Wonder enters the graveyard, your creatures will have flying (if you control an island).
    If Wonder is in the graveyard, then Humility enters play, your creatures will lose flying.

    Same is true for Anger.
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  2. #82
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    Re: How Humility Works

    If there is a Yixlid Jailer, Humility, and an Opalescence out, and a player cycles Krosan Tusker will they get to search for a basic land? Does the answer change depending on what came into play first or if there were 2 Opalescences?

  3. #83
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    Re: How Humility Works

    Quote Originally Posted by bladewing019 View Post
    If there is a Yixlid Jailer, Humility, and an Opalescence out, and a player cycles Krosan Tusker will they get to search for a basic land? Does the answer change depending on what came into play first or if there were 2 Opalescences?
    Now you are getting rediculous. Yes, you get to search, and no it doesn't matter. Tusker's ability is a triggered ability when you cycle it. Also, it is a Creature card, not a creature when you do this. Jailer has nothing to do with any of it since he has no abilities, but even if he did, it wouldn't matter.

    How to handle Humility-

    If your opponent plays it: Ask him any rule regarding Humility and Layers. If he cannot answer them, then punch him in the face, take the Humility and rip it to shreds.

    If you play it: Allow your opponent to ask any questions regarding Humility and Layers. If you can't anwer them, let your opponent punch you in the face, take your Humility and rip it to shreds.

    Why does every judge have a playset of Humilities? To keep them out of circulation.
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  4. #84
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    Re: How Humility Works

    Bladewing's question is not obvious. Yixlid Jailer normally stops Krosan Tusker from triggering (because "when you cycle" triggers from the graveyard, since the hand is a hidden zone).

    He is basically asking "With Humility and Opalescence in play, do other creatures retain their abilities?". If yes, then Jailer is active and Tusker doesn't trigger.
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  5. #85

    Re: How Humility Works

    Quote Originally Posted by Nihil View Post
    (because "when you cycle" triggers from the graveyard, since the hand is a hidden zone).
    Because abilities cant trigger from hidden zones, so it has to trigger from the graveyard, correct?

  6. #86
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    Re: How Humility Works

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan View Post
    Because abilities cant trigger from hidden zones, so it has to trigger from the graveyard, correct?
    It's even written down in the rules.

    502.18c Some cards with cycling have abilities that trigger when they’re cycled. “When you cycle [this card]” means “When you discard [this card] to pay a cycling cost.” These abilities trigger from the graveyard.
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  7. #87
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    Re: How Humility Works

    Sorry I probably should have put that rule in my post to avoid confusion. So does anyone know the answer to this or will it just make judges hate you if it ever comes up?

  8. #88

    Re: How Humility Works

    How do glorious anthem and humility work together? Would creatures be 1/1s or 2/2s?
    Thanks in advance

  9. #89
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    Re: How Humility Works

    Timestamp only applies if two things happen in the same layer.

    Inside layer 6, apply effects in a series of sublayers in the following order:
    (6a) effects from characteristic-setting abilities;
    (6b) all other effects not specifically applied in 6c, 6d, or 6e;
    (6c) changes from counters;
    (6d) effects from static abilities that modify power and/or toughness but don't set power and/or toughness to a specific number or value; and
    (6e) effects that switch a creature's power and toughness.
    Humility happens in 6b, Anthem in 6d.

    So the critters will ALWAYS be 2/2.
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  10. #90
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    Re: How Humility Works

    Taurelin07 is correct. Layer 6d specifically states that power and toughness setting effects do not apply here. So humility only applies in layer 6b. Anthem applies in 6d, so anthem is always applied later, regardless of time stamps.

    So creatures will always be 2/2's no matter which order the humility and anthem were palyed.

  11. #91
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    Re: How Humility Works

    Quote Originally Posted by on1y0ne View Post
    Now you are getting rediculous. Yes, you get to search, and no it doesn't matter. Tusker's ability is a triggered ability when you cycle it. Also, it is a Creature card, not a creature when you do this. Jailer has nothing to do with any of it since he has no abilities, but even if he did, it wouldn't matter.
    Well, it does matter.

    The land-searching ability of Tusker, as well as the Token-ability of DoJ, the pinging of Slice and Dice etc. are all abilities that trigger when you cycle those cards. The abilities trigger from the graveyard and if Jailer is in play, he makes them lose those "When *bla* is cycled"-Ability, thus you won't get to search lands, get Tokens or anything else.

    When Humility is in play, Jailer loses his static ability, thus all cards in all graveyards regain their abilities.
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  12. #92

    Re: How Humility Works

    I have a few questions that came up recently regarding Humility.

    1) A mishra's animated with a humility already is in play becomes a 2/2 correct?

    2) Said mishra's goes back to being a land eot correct?

    3) Said mishra's cannot pump itself, but can be pumped by a 2nd non-creature mishra's in play too correct?

    4) An arcbound ravager is a 0/0 with one +1/+1 counter...Humility is played...does ravager become a 1/1 with one +1/+1 counter? (in essence making it a 2/2)

    5) If opponent gave another counter before Humility hit play-->0/0 w/2 +1/+1 counters...what would happen?...a 3/3?...a 1/1?

    6) If ravager comes down after Humility in play...what then?

    Thanks,
    -TG

  13. #93
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    Re: How Humility Works

    Quote Originally Posted by TopGun View Post
    1) A mishra's animated with a humility already is in play becomes a 2/2 correct?

    2) Said mishra's goes back to being a land eot correct?

    3) Said mishra's cannot pump itself, but can be pumped by a 2nd non-creature mishra's in play too correct?

    4) An arcbound ravager is a 0/0 with one +1/+1 counter...Humility is played...does ravager become a 1/1 with one +1/+1 counter? (in essence making it a 2/2)
    All correct, so far. @2: It is always a land, but EoT it stops being a creature. That's what you meant.

    Quote Originally Posted by TopGun View Post
    5) If opponent gave another counter before Humility hit play-->0/0 w/2 +1/+1 counters...what would happen?...a 3/3?...a 1/1?
    All the counters apply, so a 1/1 with 2 counters becoms 3/3, effectively.

    Quote Originally Posted by TopGun View Post
    6) If ravager comes down after Humility in play...what then?
    The same. Modular says: "Modular N" means "This permanent comes into play with N +1/+1 counters on it".

    And such "comes into play" abilities are not touched by Humility.
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  14. #94
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    Re: How Humility Works

    "comes into play" abilities are not touched by Humility
    wrong..
    For example ringleader doesn"t trigger with humility in play.

  15. #95
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    Re: How Humility Works

    Quote Originally Posted by B4L4 View Post
    wrong..
    For example ringleader doesn"t trigger with humility in play.
    I'm not talking about triggered abilities "When <this> comes into play", but about abilities like that of Ravager that have the form "This comes into play with xy" or "This comes into play tapped" and so on. These are static abilities that modify how the permanent comes into play, and these are NOT removed by Humility.
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  16. #96
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    Re: How Humility Works

    Triggered abilities with "when <this> comes into play" are the ones referred to as comes into play abilities. Your answer was correct, but B4L4 was right in pointing out the fact that you did mix up terminology.
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  17. #97

    Re: How Humility Works

    Awesome, thanks a lot guys!

    Is there any good way to explain why mishra's/nantuko's monastery work the way they do without going into the whole layers and timestamp argument?

    I was pretty sure about the mishra's thing in a tournament, but I had no way of explaining it to my opponent so he would understand/accept that this was how it works.

    If not, c'est la vie...I just thought maybe somebody had played enough with humility that they had a handy dandy little explanation that they used for such a frequent occurrence as the mishra debate with a newish opponent.

    Thanks,
    -TG

  18. #98
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    Re: How Humility Works

    They work the way they do because of layers and timestamp.

    You might try bringing in the relevant section of the Comp Rules with you, or just rely on a judge. If the judge does not know how it works, then you likely have bigger problems.
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  19. #99
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    Re: How Humility Works

    Quote Originally Posted by B4L4 View Post
    wrong..
    For example ringleader doesn"t trigger with humility in play.
    If Arcbound Ravager's modular counters were a triggered ability, he'd die to state based effects while still a 0/0.

  20. #100
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    Re: How Humility Works

    Quote Originally Posted by TopGun View Post
    Awesome, thanks a lot guys!

    Is there any good way to explain why mishra's/nantuko's monastery work the way they do without going into the whole layers and timestamp argument?

    I was pretty sure about the mishra's thing in a tournament, but I had no way of explaining it to my opponent so he would understand/accept that this was how it works.

    If not, c'est la vie...I just thought maybe somebody had played enough with humility that they had a handy dandy little explanation that they used for such a frequent occurrence as the mishra debate with a newish opponent.

    Thanks,
    -TG
    On MWS I often use the quick explanation "The Factory becomes a 1/1, then a 2/2". Usually works.
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