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Thread: [Deck] 5c Eternal Garden

  1. #1
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    [Deck] 5c Eternal Garden

    So i'm bored and felt like finally making a topic for this. For the previous discussion and stuff on the deck:

    http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showt...?t=3512&page=4


    Since the deck is still pretty much the same I'm just going to c/p the list and stuff.

    5c Eternal Garden

    4 Exploration
    3 Crucible of Worlds

    3 Crop Rotation
    4 Intuition
    1 Life from the Loam
    1 Nostalgic Dreams
    3 Burning Wish

    3 Pithing Needle
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Moat
    2 Pyroclasm

    4 Mox Diamond
    1 Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
    1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
    1 Glacial Chasm
    1 Riftstone Portal
    1 Nomad Stadium
    1 Tranquil Thicket
    1 Cephalid Coliseum
    1 Barbarian Ring
    1 Nantuko Monastery
    4 Taiga
    3 Tropical Island
    3 Savannah
    1 Bayou
    1 Plateau
    4 Windswept Heath
    2 Wasteland

    Sideboard:
    3 Rule of Law
    3 Tormod's Crypt
    2 Boil
    1 Hull Breach
    1 Devastating Dreams
    1 Sickening Dreams
    1 Haunting Echoes
    1 Nostalgic Dreams
    1 Life from the Loam
    1 Cranial Extraction



    Exploration: This deck's primary win condition is through Barbarian Ring recursion. Yes, that does seem a bit weak as the main win condition, but this deck is designed for the long game, where by that time, it wouldn't matter if you won with Mountain Goat. Exploration speeds that win up, as well as everything else up. I guess you can say it's the greatest fucking card ever.

    Crucible: The deck's primary resource for winning. No, this deck is not designed around LftL, it is designed around abusing Crucible. I'm not sure I'm in any real need for this explanation really. It's importance is just as great as it is in Turboland.

    Crop Rotation: A card that everyone and their mother seemed to miss. However, I did not. In a deck that abuses land like this, the drawback is small. And the reward, is instant-speed Glacial Chasm, Nantuko Monastery, Barbarian Ring, Boseiju(for eot), whatever. Also evades Wasteland. You get the point.

    Intuition: The engine of the deck. There are so many outs with this card it's difficult to explain them all. It basically depends on the game-state. If you got the Exploration, get Crucibles and prepare to go nuts quick. Wanna run for the long game? Get the LftL engine ready with Coliseum and Thicket. Goblins got you down? Nab a pair of Moats or Pyroclasms and Nostalgic Dreams or something to wipe them anyway, I dunno. You can do infinate dumb things with this in here.

    Life from the Loam: The deck's secondary engine. For this reason, I only run a single copy maindeck. With Intuition and Burning Wish, I have as many of these as I want. You guys know the functionings of the card, so I don't see much need for more explaining here either.

    Nostalgic Dreams: It's retardedly dumb with LftL, and I kept one maindeck so I can Intuition for it and 2-ofs. Turns out it works really freaking well.

    Burning Wish: Deck's backup plan should something bad happen. Something like Pithing Needle on Barbarian Ring. It gets an alternative win condition in Haunting Echoes, which is the sole reason for the slight black splash in the sideboard because it's the strongest wish target in the format. Also happens to have an incredible toolbox with it.

    Pithing Needle: I run these maindeck for the sole reason of stopping Wastelands game1. Decks like Goblins can't do much against a Chasm with Needle in play. Also happens to solve infinate other problems against the deck.

    Moat: Dumb? Yes. I chose this over WoG because decks can come back after WoG, like Goblins, but they have a lot more trouble dealing with Moat.

    Pyroclasm/StP: No brainers. Deals with creatures, wipes Gobbos board. Just good stuff right there.


    Manabase:

    Mox Diamond: I run a lot of lands. Diamond happens to work quite nicely in here, considering it's backed by both Crucible and LftL. Oh yeah, pitching Riftstone Portal to it is a lot of fun too.

    Tabernacle: I'm debating dropping this slot in favor of another mana producing land, but it does a great job against aggro and can slow down Threshold if they're lame and play the early Goose, which is nice when you back it up with Wastelands.

    Boseiju: Omg I love this thing. It was a last-minute addition, and it happens to be my 2nd favorite land in the deck. Uncounterable Intuition, LftL, Burning Wish and wish targets, Amazing.

    Glacial Chasm: The reason I built this deck was because of my liking of the Crop Rotation -> Chasm combo. Turns out like 70% of decks in this format can't even deal with this. Threshold? Lol, Threshold. You lose.

    Riftstone Portal: I run too many lands that don't add mana, or only colorless mana in a deck that requires colors. Portal is a godsend for this deck and gives those crappy colorless lands a chance to do something good, like cast Explorations and Moats. Also, it's cool to not have Boseiju kill me every time I tap it.

    Nomad Stadium/Barbarian Ring: Recursive life gain. Recursive damage. K.

    Nantuko Monastery: Win condition to accompany Ring. This does it a bit quicker though. Can also hold the fort on D if necessary.

    Tranquil Thicket/Cephalid Coliseum: They draw cards. They enjoy LftL. And Crucible. I only run a single Thicket due to space, but it's really all the deck needs, because once it hits Threshold, Coliseum pretty much does enough for the deck.

    Wasteland: Derf.

    Dual land config: Yea, no basics, Ow. Whatever. This deck can fight Wasteland with its acceleration, and can dodge it with Crop Rotation. The current config works rather nicely considering the deck's needs. I dunno, I've never really had many color problems with the deck. I suppose a 2nd Bayou could be there for Echoes, but by the time Echoes is cast, there will most likely be a Diamond in play, and if not, I can always add B, waste Bayou, and replay it.

    Sideboard:

    Naturalize: Only a single due to space, but I have Wish for Breach.
    Rule of Law: One of the stronger answers for the bad combo matchups.
    Tormod's Crypt: Derf.
    Boil: Solidarity was the reason I did poorly at the D4D. Boil houses Solidarity. Nothing says Fuck You like an eot uncounterable Boil.
    Hull Breach: Yeah.
    Haunting Echoes: Yeah. Win condition #2.
    Nostalgic Dreams: Yeah.
    LftL: Yeah.
    Devastating Dreams: It was this or Armageddon, but I liked how this also could wipe the board too.
    Sickening Dreams: Wipes the board if necessary, and also can be used as a win condition like the style of old-school Turbonevyn. Fill up the hand with LftL, have Chasm in play, Dreams for 10-15 no big deal.
    Tsunami: Yeah, Wishable Boil.

    Deck Matchups:

    UGw Threshold: Pretty easy matchup. This deck has no way of removing Glacial Chasm from play, so they're helpless to the Chasm defense. If you resolve a Moat, that will keep you good long enough to find Chasm. If you resolve Crop Rotation, that's a Chasm. Mage is annoying until StP or Pyroclasm deal with it, and the counters are also annoying, but Rotating a Boseiju is pretty much gg, because then Burning Wish becomes win the damn game. Needles are annoying though, and then graveyard hate is annoying too from the side so keep in Needles.

    UGr Threshold: Basically the same as UGw, but they have a shitton of burn, so if they manage some early beats on you they can kill you with a handful of bolts and gay stuff. Oh well, Moat makes them cry and so does Chasm.

    Goblins: Another easy matchup. The builds that don't run Wasteland lose to Chasm. Outside that, there are a ton of outs to stopping them, with Moat, StP, and Pyroclasm. Needles hit Port or the pingers or an early Vial, and Tabernacle slows them down for me to get shit goin. The matchup really isn't too hard to win granted you have a brain.

    Solidarity: Bad. G1 you basically lose. G2 you have some answers with Rule of Law and Boil, and if you're lucky a Burning Wish -> Cranial, Echoes, or Tsunami.

    Iggy Pop: Bad. G1 you basically lose. G2 you have some answers but it's still a tough fight.

    Rifter: Pretty easy. They have nothing but dead cards while you can just go retarded.

    Those are basically the only matchups worth mentioning really, but in a nutshell the deck smashes everything but combo. I like the maindeck but am debating on some slots, wanna fit in a little more card draw, and I also want to make the sideboard more flexible too. So yeah, ahead with the comments.
    Last edited by Di; 07-03-2006 at 03:26 AM.

  2. #2
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    Re: [Deck] 5c Eternal Garden

    Sooooo, you lose to an entire third of the archetype pie, you hope to play Goblins without Wastelands, & you lose to half of the versions of the most popular deck in the format......thx for sharing. Why don't you dial back on the smoke, it seems to be affecting your cognitive processes.
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  3. #3
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    Re: [Deck] 5c Eternal Garden

    Sooooo, you lose to an entire third of the archetype pie, you hope to play Goblins without Wastelands, & you lose to half of the versions of the most popular deck in the format......thx for sharing. Why don't you dial back on the smoke, it seems to be affecting your cognitive processes.
    No, it seems your old age is affecting your intelligence.

    Iggy Pop and Solidarity are poor matchups, yes. However, they are the only poor matchups the deck has. Postboard Solidarity gets a bit better, but still suffers from the fact that all Loam decks shit the bed to Solidarity. Iggy Poop is still bad postboard but if a Rule of Law comes down I think you win.

    Also, I don't care whether Goblins plays Wasteland or not. If they don't, then they downright lose. If they do, then it's just something I can needle. This deck is designed to handle shitty creature decks like that. It has more resources than just Glacial Chasm. (See: Pyroclasm, Moat, StP, Burning Wish).

    You also can't read for shit, because I didn't say I lose to Threshold. The UGr version only has a better chance of winning due to it's retarded amount of burn. This requires them to have 3-4 thresholded beats in and then have 3-4 burn spells right after. But, you have Glacial Chasm and Nomad's Stadium for that. Oops, they can't do anything for it. Plus, outside Mongoose their creatures are crap against this deck.

    Maybe you should head back to the retirement center and stop wasting my damn time with negative criticism.

  4. #4
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    Re: [Deck] 5c Eternal Garden

    The deck looks solid I love it. A very interesting deck to say the least.

    Have you thought of running Recoup incase a sorcery gets dredged into your yard? It seems like it would be a perfect fit in the deck, fully complimenting Burning Wish, Nostalgic Dreams and Pyroclasm.

    If you decide to run Recoup I would also suggest running Wrath of God. Unfortunately Replenish is banned and there's no real way of getting a Moat back from your yard. Recoup basically gets back your WoG or lets you use it twice.

    Recoup is also neat with Regrowth and you can do some nice tricks with it If you decide to keep Moat.

    Recoup+Regrowth=gets you back anything in your yard which is sweet.

    That's just a few things to consider, the deck looks awesome.
    Last edited by Cavius The Great; 06-16-2006 at 04:15 PM.

  5. #5
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    Re: [Deck] 5c Eternal Garden

    In my testing I've found out that more Chasms are a necesity and I'd also try to fit in a Horn of Greed or two, although they do bring up decking problems.
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  6. #6
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    Re: [Deck] 5c Eternal Garden

    @ Cavius

    Recoup was originally a Burning Wish slot, but I also toyed with it in the maindeck too. It's actually really good, but there really aren't enough sorceries in the deck to make it worthwhile. An expensive Pyroclasm is a waste, but Burning Wish is good. Thing is, the deck runs 3 of them + Dreams, so getting at least one in hand hasn't ever been an issue.

    @White Ghost

    More Chasms are probably necessary, but having more lands that don't add mana is dangerous. Even with Riftstone Portal, it's a risky move. I'd personally up the Crop Rotation count before adding a 2nd Chasm. Regarding Horn of Greed, I want to add it in so bad. It's just dumb in here. Problem is this deck gets down to the last cards all the time just from the dredging and Cephalid Coliseum, so I'm unsure on it. I'm thinking another Coliseum might be necessary however. If not Coliseum, Deep Analysis is an interesting option I've looked at, as is Thirst for Knowledge.

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    Re: [Deck] 5c Eternal Garden

    I probably counted wrong but I think there are 61 cards in your deck.

    Also, with all the 1 ofs that you can't care if they go to grave, have you considered gifts? And I know it's a sorcery, but MAYBE Compulsive research?

    Edit: Have you considered Gemstone Mine? I goldfished a couple games and the deck is pretty cool. Only problem I'm having with it is Mana base. Maybe Barbarian ring as another win condition?

    1 Barbarian Ring
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    Last edited by Di; 06-16-2006 at 04:55 PM.
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    Re: [Deck] 5c Eternal Garden

    Nice Diablos.

    I am really liking the mana base - it looks solid with all that CoW and LftL support. I know people will disagree with me, but I think you did a good job there.

    I really don't like one Nostalgic Dreams. It seems really pointless even with Intuition since it is very unlickely you get it, and even if you do get the other stuff it still seems dumb to waste a whole slot for a card that is there 90% of the time for Intuition. Why do you run it - oh, and you can wish for it. So it is there 95% of the time for Intuition. Why do you run this card again?

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    Re: [Deck] 5c Eternal Garden

    Actually I've been playing this deck since it's first appearence in the Exploration thread. It does smash decks that want to win with damage. I even beat 2 land belcher 7 games out of 9. Mostly due to Needle, but you know.

    I found the deck to be a little inconsistent at times. For that reason I added Dark Confidant. He is nut's in the deck if he is not answered. Granted he is fragile, but he comes out against decks that run shit tons of removal. Everything else he is golden against.

    I did:
    -2 Moat
    -2 Pyroclasm

    +4 Dark Confidant


    There was also the matter of the deck being moderately dependent on Intuition and Crucible. I upped both those cards to 4.

    -1 Wasteland
    -1 Tranquil Thicket

    +1 Intuition
    +1 Crucible

    Since there are now more black cards I changed the mana base to be more black friendly, and I cut the Plateau all together to get the list back to 60 cards.

    -1 Taiga
    +1 Bayou

    Personally I like it a lot more with the changes I've made. I also cut about $100 worth of cards. Sometimes I've missed the Moats but they were the first cards to get cut, and I don't feel like they are necessary for the deck to perform well.

    @ Fallen

    BRing is already in the list.
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  10. #10
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    Re: [Deck] 5c Eternal Garden

    I really don't like one Nostalgic Dreams. It seems really pointless even with Intuition since it is very unlickely you get it, and even if you do get the other stuff it still seems dumb to waste a whole slot for a card that is there 90% of the time for Intuition. Why do you run it - oh, and you can wish for it. So it is there 95% of the time for Intuition. Why do you run this card again?
    The deck only runs Intuition as a tutor, so therefore it can't always get everything. Nostalgic Dreams acts as not only another Intuition in a way, but as the 4th and 3rd copy of every other card in the deck. Using Intuition in conjunction with it allows me to only grab 2 copies of a card and that, saving the 3rd one in the deck, or if the 3rd went to the graveyard or something. The fact that you dredge away half the deck takes away half of the cards you're going to Intuition for, and when you can Intuition for other copies and dreams, it makes it worth it.

    @bigredmeanie

    With the huge gap in creature removal in your list, how is your matchup against Goblins? Surely, Confidant dies at first glance against the deck, and you don't have the board sweepers anymore to deal with the horde, putting a lot of reliance of Chasm.

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    Re: [Deck] 5c Eternal Garden

    @ Diablos

    Well, if I can needle Wasteland it hasn't been an issue. Also you say I have a glairing lack of removal when in reality I only removed 2 Clasms. They do very little against Gro and most aggro decks not Goblins or Deadguy, so I felt they could be cut due to their disynergy with Confidant. As stated Confidant would most likely get boarded out against Goblins, GUR Gro, and Rifter.
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    Re: [Deck] 5c Eternal Garden

    http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showt...on+confinement

    Your deck is very comparable to Ruel and Nassif's Confinment deck. Stop shit from happening and abuse lands.. I think you both have major strengths and weakness going on. You seem a bit weak against counter magic. Your key spells (Exploration, Crucible) go down and all of a sudden your left with your pants around your ankles. Likewise for Confinement but at least they have they're own counterspells to provide protection. Your list looks like it needs a little refining still. Way too many one of's will just get you into deep shit. I like wish but do you really need Needle along side it? your saying you have a good thresh match but they have counters for your few important spells, no real needle targets, and clasm kills nothing. Keep working on it tho, it looks good. Wish I had some Explorations..

    EDIT
    Quote Originally Posted by bigredmeanie
    @ Diablos
    As stated Confidant would most likely get boarded out against Goblins, GUR Gro, and Rifter.
    Is it really worth it at that point? I dont think Id want him against White thresh either. They still have stp and you want your Pyroclasms to handle that Meddling Mage.
    Last edited by Bane of the Living; 06-16-2006 at 08:08 PM.
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  13. #13
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    Re: [Deck] 5c Eternal Garden

    I do think its funny you just banned GAT, he gave you the whole Crop Rotation -> Clasm idea. Now beat him with the deck sometime.

    ....No, he didn't. It's tech I had on my own. I've had Chasm on my radar for a looong ass time because I was trying a UBg turbonevyn style turboland build that ran the Sickening Dreams/Glacial Chasm win condition, and the deck ran Crop Rotation. I don't know where you heard that from.

    Your list looks like it needs a little refining still. Way too many one of's will just get you into deep shit. I like wish but do you really need Needle along side it? your saying you have a good thresh match but they have counters for your few important spells, no real needle targets, and clasm kills nothing. Keep working on it tho, it looks good. Wish I had some Explorations..
    Exploration and Crucible get countered which sucks, but everything else can be protected under Boseiju. Nothing says fuck you to control like an uncounterable Burning Wish and Haunting Echoes.

    Needle is run maindeck because it's primary use is to stop Wasteland. That protects Chasm, and it does that rather well. And it happens to hit every other deck one way or another.

    And as for Thresh, yes it is a good matchup for me. Those who've played me with the deck can attest for this. The LftL engine is incredibly difficult for them to deal with, especially since they have no way of removing Glacial Chasm. If either Exploration or Crucible resolves you pretty much have the game, because from then on your land advantage overwhelms them. If Moat resolves, they only have a single out in the deck to win, and said out has 4 copies of StP ready for it.

    As for the 1ofs, I really don't see where you're getting at here. I have only 2 of them as non-land cards, and they are both primary Intuition targets. The rest of them are lands, which we have no problems seeing thanks to Crop Rotation, Intution, and dredging half my deck away.

    Also you say I have a glairing lack of removal when in reality I only removed 2 Clasms. They do very little against Gro and most aggro decks not Goblins or Deadguy, so I felt they could be cut due to their disynergy with Confidant. As stated Confidant would most likely get boarded out against Goblins, GUR Gro, and Rifter.
    For all intents and purposes I was considering Moat to be 'removal' as well. With the lack of both Moat and Clasm, I see decks like Goblins to be capable to killing you faster than you can sustain a defense. Also, what is your sideboard like meanie? If you're boarding out Confidants left and right, I assume you have able to slots to switch. But this makes me wonder how strong your wish board is, and how many slots you have towards the combo matchups.

  14. #14
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    Re: [Deck] 5c Eternal Garden

    Quote Originally Posted by Diablos
    @White Ghost

    More Chasms are probably necessary, but having more lands that don't add mana is dangerous. Even with Riftstone Portal, it's a risky move. I'd personally up the Crop Rotation count before adding a 2nd Chasm. Regarding Horn of Greed, I want to add it in so bad. It's just dumb in here. Problem is this deck gets down to the last cards all the time just from the dredging and Cephalid Coliseum, so I'm unsure on it. I'm thinking another Coliseum might be necessary however. If not Coliseum, Deep Analysis is an interesting option I've looked at, as is Thirst for Knowledge.
    Here's my 3color list, which can support Horn and 3 Chasms. I also went to a Living Wishboard instead of Burning Wish.

    //Mana/Lands 30
    1 Barbarian Ring
    1 Oborro Palace In The Clouds
    3 Flooded Strand
    3 Glacial Chasm
    3 Windsweapt Heath
    4 Tundra
    4 Tropical Island
    4 Savannah
    4 Mox Diamond
    3 Wasteland

    //Spells 31
    4 Exploration
    4 Crucible
    4 Brainstorm
    2 Horn of Greed
    3 Intuition
    3 Living Wish
    1 Moat
    1 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Pithing Needle
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    3 Enlightened Tutor
    1 Solitary Confinement

    //Sideboard 15
    3 Meddling Mage
    1 Morphling
    1 Azusa Lost But Seeking
    1 Barbarian Ring
    1 Glacial Chasm
    1 Monk Realist
    1 Sex Monkey
    1 Wasteland
    2 Tormod's Crypt
    3 Pithing Needle

    -Why I like my list
    3 Chasm
    Mage in the board is sick
    Azusa is huge
    Mini E Tutor Toolbox
    Ability to go turbo Morphling

    -Why I Like Di's list
    Crop Rotation
    Burning Wish
    Boseju
    Tabernacle
    MD Needles
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  15. #15
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    Re: [Deck] 5c Eternal Garden

    Wow I like that list. Thats kinda what I meant by cleaned up but I really like Diablos' use of Crop Rotation as well as Pithing Needles. I think you need at least 1 copy of LftL for back up. Your playing Intuition.

    Mage in the board is hot and Living Wish does fit better than Burning.
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    Re: [Deck] 5c Eternal Garden

    Quote Originally Posted by BotL
    Wow I like that list. Thats kinda what I meant by cleaned up but I really like Diablos' use of Crop Rotation as well as Pithing Needles. I think you need at least 1 copy of LftL for back up. Your playing Intuition.

    Mage in the board is hot and Living Wish does fit better than Burning.
    I have to disagree, Bane. Diablos's list is supurior to White Ghosts for a number of reasons:

    1) The mana base is more solid. Diablos doesn't run as many non-mana producing lands as White Ghost, and in addition White Ghost runs no Riftstone Portal, which I have found to be huge.

    2) Have you even tested? 1 Chasm is enough. I can always get one when I want it. Between 3 Crop Rotation, 3 Intuition and 1 Chasm, I am never short on damage prevention.

    3) Living Wish is powerful but seems worse than Burning Wish. For instance, Burning Wish really increases the utility this deck can provide, in addition to a Win Condition through Echoes. Living Wish can let you go Turbo Morphlin as a win, but really that is very weak and outdated right now (I.E, Pithing Needle). Even if it wasn't, Meloku seems better to me. Asuza seems like Overkill, though I will admit Mage in the board is pretty sweet. Hull Breach is better than sex monkey, and besides that Eternal Garden doesn't need Living Wish since it can run its land toolbox MD and save the Sideboard for other things. Oh, and This is sooo broken with Boseiju, were thresh counters living wish easy. Plus, you can wish for creature destruction that is better than bone shredder.

    4) @ Horn of Greed: This card is so outdated in turboland. So you draw extra cards when you have the lock - it just seems win more, plus it is symmetrical.

    I havn't tested White Ghosts list, so I am judging by appearences. Feel free to prove me wrong.

    EDIT: The enlightened Tutorbox idea is cool though, since you can so easily switch to Loam/Confinement.
    Last edited by A Banana; 06-17-2006 at 12:58 PM.

  17. #17
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    Re: [Deck] 5c Eternal Garden

    3) Living Wish is powerful but seems worse than Burning Wish.
    I can attest to this for fact, because the deck I ran at the D4D was in fact the Living Wish version of the deck. I found it to be terrible with it's lack of utility. Honestly, half of the targets will never be wished for. You like the slot because it's incredibly strong, but you never bother to get it. Here was my Living Wish board:


    Sideboard:
    SB: 1 Glacial Chasm
    SB: 1 Barbarian Ring
    SB: 1 Viridian Zealot
    SB: 1 Eternal Witness
    SB: 1 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
    SB: 1 Terravore
    SB: 2 Sacred Ground
    SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
    SB: 3 Boil
    SB: 2 Naturalize

    Trust me on this, Burning Wish is a shitton better than Living Wish just giving the options it has.

  18. #18
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    Re: [Deck] 5c Eternal Garden

    Quote Originally Posted by A Banana
    I have to disagree, Bane. Diablos's list is supurior to White Ghosts for a number of reasons:

    1) The mana base is more solid. Diablos doesn't run as many non-mana producing lands as White Ghost, and in addition White Ghost runs no Riftstone Portal, which I have found to be huge.
    I still run 24 and 4 Mox Diamond. I don't think it's that big a deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by A Banana
    2) Have you even tested? 1 Chasm is enough. I can always get one when I want it. Between 3 Crop Rotation, 3 Intuition and 1 Chasm, I am never short on damage prevention.
    Yes, I have. In my brief testing of 5c Garden, you need at least 1 more Chasm, especially with zero draw spells.

    Quote Originally Posted by A Banana
    3) Living Wish is powerful but seems worse than Burning Wish. For instance, Burning Wish really increases the utility this deck can provide, in addition to a Win Condition through Echoes. Living Wish can let you go Turbo Morphlin as a win, but really that is very weak and outdated right now (I.E, Pithing Needle). Even if it wasn't, Meloku seems better to me. Asuza seems like Overkill, though I will admit Mage in the board is pretty sweet. Hull Breach is better than sex monkey, and besides that Eternal Garden doesn't need Living Wish since it can run its land toolbox MD and save the Sideboard for other things. Oh, and This is sooo broken with Boseiju, were thresh counters living wish easy. Plus, you can wish for creature destruction that is better than bone shredder.
    Yeah, I'll probably add Boseiju for utility, probably over the lone Oboro. Azusa is by no means overkill and is probably my #1 Wish target.
    Mage is an MVP in the board.


    Quote Originally Posted by A Banana
    4) @ Horn of Greed: This card is so outdated in turboland. So you draw extra cards when you have the lock - it just seems win more, plus it is symmetrical.
    It is by no way symmetrical or win-more. Di's list has the problem of doing nothing when it has the lock out, waiting to draw into business spells. This also helps you accelerate into awesome in the early/mid game

    Quote Originally Posted by A Banana
    I havn't tested White Ghosts list, so I am judging by appearences. Feel free to prove me wrong.

    EDIT: The enlightened Tutorbox idea is cool though, since you can so easily switch to Loam/Confinement.
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    Re: [Deck] 5c Eternal Garden

    Well on #2 I was reffering to Bane, not you. I agree you need more than 1 chasm, but 3 and one in the board seems overkill.

    When the lock is out the point is that Di's list doesn't NEED to do anything. That is what makes horn win more - in addition it helps your opponent draw into answers.

  20. #20
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    Re: [Deck] 5c Eternal Garden

    Quote Originally Posted by A Banana
    Well on #2 I was reffering to Bane, not you. I agree you need more than 1 chasm, but 3 and one in the board seems overkill.

    When the lock is out the point is that Di's list doesn't NEED to do anything. That is what makes horn win more - in addition it helps your opponent draw into answers.
    Trust me, when you have the lock out, the game is far from over. Horn ends games faster and as I said, helps you accelerate into lock pieces.
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