[Deck] 44-card Foom (FFF)

[Phoenix Ignition]

I'm curious, how do you choose mana colors with manamorphose? Do you fudge it a bit with just calling it "awesome 5color mana" or based on what's in your hand or based on what's in the deck you could draw?

[rufus]

I'm curious, how do you choose mana colors with manamorphose? Do you fudge it a bit with just calling it "awesome 5color mana" or based on what's in your hand or based on what's in the deck you could draw?

In the sim it's just awesome 5-color mana. With the simplified game plan it's usually clear what color mana you're going to want anyway.

Edit: You can just swap in Black Vises instead and go mono-R too. It's better on the play, and worse on the draw.

[Gheizen64]

I came back to this deck because i wanted to test Vise, but in the end i think the best gain you have now is DTT banned. With DTT banned, therapies combined with Probe , Baubles and Goblin Guides make for a much easier control MU when they can't refill as easily now. For reference:


4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Urza's Bauble
4 Gitaxian Probe

4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Abbot of Keral Keep
4 Goblin Guide
4 Dark Confidant

4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Fireblast

4 Cabal Therapy
1 Snuff Out

4 Badlands
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Mountain
2 Barbarian Ring
1 Arid Mesa

SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 4 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Dread of Night
SB: 3 Eidolon of the Great Revel
SB: 2 Pyrokinesis
SB: 1 Duress


17 lands may be too little, maybe remove the singleton snuff out and add another fetch.

[Aronesxd]

is this deck really an improvement to the traditional burn / Red deck wins ? to me it looks like this could only be better if you play a more resiliant / grindy game, it might be a little more consistent and might be more reliable on hate but i think at the cost of sheer speed...
my post is about the list above me, not for the whole deck idea.
mfg Matthew

[rufus]

is this deck really an improvement to the traditional burn / Red deck wins ? to me it looks like this could only be better if you play a more resiliant / grindy game, it might be a little more consistent and might be more reliable on hate but i think at the cost of sheer speed...
my post is about the list above me, not for the whole deck idea.

Yeah. I was going to write something similar with more specifics, and how Baubles + Dark Confidant + Cabal Therapy is really more sensible as a BW Monastery Mentor value plan.

When I was contemplating at a black splash more in line with the deck's primary philosophy, and the potential of Bloodghast, and Soulflayer as inexpensive hasty beaters is intriguing. As was mentiond, you can also addBump in the Night to the direct damage spells.

There's a decent 'discard for value' package available to supplement the bloodghast - pitching cards like Basking Rootwalla,Call to the Netherworld,Fiery Temper, and maybe even Ichorid or Flamewake Phoenix would further the deck's game plan. But I'm not sure the discard outlets are up to snuff.

[Finn]

Rufus, your testing seemed to be going so well. Did you give up on this?

Also, I loved the idea of Temporal Tresspass so much. Does it continue to be a beneficial card in the deck?

[rufus]

Rufus, your testing seemed to be going so well. Did you give up on this?

Also, I loved the idea of Temporal Tresspass so much. Does it continue to be a beneficial card in the deck?

I stopped tinkering with it, but I've had it on the back of my mind. I'm not really set up to do head to head match testing.

In the simulation, Trespass is the worst card in the deck to draw in the opening 7.

The mention of Tyrant's Choice in the bedlam reveler thread has me thinking about a black version with Soulflayer.

[mistercakes]

i took this foom idea and tried it in a different direction. only playing casuals but it seems to be holding its own. the difference here is that tarmogoyf is actually a pretty nasty creature in a deck like this. i saw nimble mongoose being played outside of rug in that miracle slayer thread, and figured....why not get threshold on turn 2. therapy provides enough disruption and there's enough removal for a path for your guys (goyfs are almost always 5/6's in this deck). i've also considered running a singleton gaddock teeg in the maindeck, but that will require a fetch to become a scrubland or a savannah.

thoughts are welcomed.

creatures

4 nimble mongoose
4 deathrite shaman
4 tarmogoyf
4 dark confidant
4 street wraith
1 death's shadow

spells

4 lotus petal
4 mishra's bauble
4 urza's bauble
4 gitaxian probe
4 manamorphose
4 cabal therapy
2 dismember
1 disfigure
1 reanimate

planeswalker

1 liliana of the veil

lands

4 verdant catacomb
2 polluted delta
2 bayou
1 forest
1 swamp

sb:

2 surgical extraction
1 disfigure
1 thoughtseize
2 engineered plague
1 choke
3 abrupt decay
3 winter orb
1 engineered explosives
1 tormod's crypt

-rob

[Finn]

I stopped tinkering with it, but I've had it on the back of my mind. I'm not really set up to do head to head match testing.

In the simulation, Trespass is the worst card in the deck to draw in the opening 7.

The mention of Tyrant's Choice in the bedlam reveler thread has me thinking about a black version with Soulflayer.

Tyran't Choice is a bomb in multiplayer, btw.

Bedlam Reveler has a neat interaction with...Mind Bomb! Earlier in this thread I was trashing Mind Bomb (It really is a terrible, just awful card). But with Bedlam Reveler, it could possibly be discard/damage and mana production all in one. This was true before. But with Reveler, you are discarding your hand anyway.

>>>:trying hard not to explode:<<<<

Ah! I still refuse to try it.

[apple713]

joining the thread late but, is rift bolt too slow?

how about Thunderous Wrath You draw SO many cards when cycling it could pay off quite alot.



lands

4 mountain
10 fetch

cycle

4 Urza's Bauble
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Street Wraith
4 Manamorphose

burn

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 rift bolt
3 fireblast

3 thunderous wrath
8 variable cards



the question I have is how much value are you getting out of goblin guide and monestary swiftspear? Like whats the average damage you get out of them? 2? 4? I see that you are trying to maximize it with temporal tesspass but i feel like price of progress would just do better overall.

I can't really think of decks that wouldnt take 4-6+ from price on turn 3. Sure solidarity but u can sideboard for that shit.

Thinking about it, with thunderous and fireblast, getting both of them makes up for a bolt effect. Thats 1 less card you have to draw. So you need 7x bolt effects, or 4 bolt effects with fireblast and thunderous.

[rufus]

...
the question I have is how much value are you getting out of goblin guide and monestary swiftspear? Like whats the average damage you get out of them? 2? 4? I see that you are trying to maximize it with temporal tesspass but i feel like price of progress would just do better overall.
...

When goldfishing they are by far the best cards in the list. Keep in mind that this is a deck where getting 3 damage per business card is about par. So if you can get 4, and also force some kind of response from the opponent, you're doing OK.

Thunderous Wrath is fun, but, without deck stacking it limits the card turnover you can run. (The miracle trigger only works on the first card drawn each turn.)

[apple713]

When goldfishing they are by far the best cards in the list. Keep in mind that this is a deck where getting 3 damage per business card is about par. So if you can get 4, and also force some kind of response from the opponent, you're doing OK.

Thunderous Wrath is fun, but, without deck stacking it limits the card turnover you can run. (The miracle trigger only works on the first card drawn each turn.)

Alright so how about ankh of Mishra? Its a little slow and terrible late game but gamebreaking for this deck early game. Fetchlands for 5 life is terrible for our opponent. Although it will hurt us too we are more likely to win the race. It also punishes cards like daze, all midrange decks requiring more mana. Although some decks can function with two mana it is at least likely to slow them down.

[rufus]

Alright so how about ankh of Mishra? Its a little slow and terrible late game but gamebreaking for this deck early game. Fetchlands for 5 life is terrible for our opponent. Although it will hurt us too we are more likely to win the race. It also punishes cards like daze, all midrange decks requiring more mana. Although some decks can function with two mana it is at least likely to slow them down.

The card I was looking at is Black Vise. I like that Ankh punishes fetch lands, but it's slow, and it gives the opponent a choice, which is not ideal.

[Finn]

The card I was looking at is Black Vise. I like that Ankh punishes fetch lands, but it's slow, and it gives the opponent a choice, which is not ideal.

I have never been happy with Ankh of Mishra. Dunno about Vise. I hate the idea of drawing dead cards in this deck.

[mistercakes]

have you guys tried browbeat in this list? dunno how often you get to 3 mana.