Originally Posted by bartmanqc
You can fetch 7 of your artifacts with tolaria west... the other two with intuition or dredging a lot. Manabond is just the bomb on G1 if you didn't draw exploration in the first couple of turns. I really miss Thalia, she is a really great card but it's my sacrifice to play Red in Lands, but 5 color is TOO much. Also, you need to play more Tranquil Thickets.... this card is a key on G2/G3 and it's your engine for Loam, also is an anti-Vendillion Clique (drawing your card in your draw step and dredging with Tranquil Thicket in your Main Phase).
Im really glad reading this. I think you did great and we all want a report of this Lands players. What would you take out for the 2d EE? It could be 1 Tranquil Thicket?
I'm not saying the second/sixth taiga effect is wrong, i'm just saying that it's hard to imagine needing to fetch 2 in order to burn your opponents out unless they're gaining life of their own volition. The 4th grove seems like it would be better in almost every situation.
You can get back 3 punishing fire or 4 only giving our oponent 1 life. That's the maximun EV we can get from PFire...with the second Taiga you can cast at least double Fires without hiving him another life...
with 4 groves you cant do several fires without nullyfing the lifes you take with the lifes uou give.
I've been thinking about this today and I'm going to have to agree with cuthbert. I think making sure that you get fires recurring in the first place is probably more important than being able to burn people out in the late game. In the matchups where you want fires you REALLY want fires. Ill try cutting the second taiga for the fourth grove. As far as only three maze goes, I was skeptical at first, but after playing with the deck, punishing fire gives you enough time in the early game to find your mazes later. There was never a point where I needed to have all four in play at the same time. (But the best part of only playing three was not having to play one ugly from the vault maze).
That's entirely irrelevant because by the time you're concerned with burning them out you can just tar pit them instead.
Only 3 mazes makes sense in this list more than most, so it's fine to keep at 3. The only concern is being a bit more vulnerable to goyf, but goyf usually gives you 3-4 turns to find a maze so it should be fine.
You are probably right, but remember when you play the fire/grove engine you usually use grove to generates G to cast loam, and EVERY time to use punishing to burn a creature our oponents gain 1 life. Using two Taigas can help you to keep his life count as low as you can and then finish them off with Creeping Tar.
Once I had this ETERNAL match against a UW Landstill. I got control when he was 30+ (I was Punishing a Jace TMS, a reccurent Batterskull) and when I got my exploration I started to Ghost Quarter all his Lands. We were at the first game and the time was almost gone. I still got to win this game so instead of attacking him in 10+ turns, I kill him in 5. Nevermind, I think 3 Groves is perfect for 4 Punishing and it give us more targets for our fetchlands (6 dual lands +1 forest)
Hey everyone! Just a short introduction before the meat and potatoes. My name is Taylor and I live in Cleveland, Tn. I am a 24 year old senior Political Science student at Lee University with aspirations of Law School one day; who knows, we'll see where God and life take me. I have played Legacy almost exclusively for the past 2 to 2 and a half years. I've played a variety of decks, but all have had one or more of the following cards in them; Life From the Loam, Brainstorm, Lion's Eye Diamond, and/or Counterbalance. These are the decks I enjoy most; longer and grindier games that open up many lines of play and decision paths. The reasons I started playing Legacy were the Lands and Counterbalance decks.
So now that the intro is out of the way, let's get to the good stuff. I had been planning to go to this event for about 3 months prior when an old, old friend began getting in to Legacy. we made plans to hang out and go to this event; general good times all around. The Friday and Saturday before the event, a freak winter weather streak hits middle and eastern Tennessee and northern Georgia, which, conveniently, are the areas that we need to be able to travel in. Everything works out and we are able to make it to the event safely and on time.
Upon arrival we see the now outside food or drinks sign. We hide all of our contraband in our backpacks like bosses and stroll in. We meet up with the 30+ people we know, register, and hang out until it's time to battle. Just an aside I feel like bragging about, they always have some corny joke about not having food/drink on the tables and use a parody of a card name to describe the possible disastrous results, underground tea, dark coffedant, force of spill, etc. I see the head judge when I'm registering, and seeing as I haven't been to an event in a long time, I seize the opportunity to come up with one, DeathSPRITE Shaman. He and a few others laugh. When the rules announcements are being made, the head judge uses my joke. BUH DUM TISSSS. You're welcome for those that were in attendance.
For reference, here is the list I played:
Decklist:
Spells [24]
4 Life from the Loam
4 Exploration
2 Manabond
3 Intuition
4 Punishing Fire
Artifacts [7]
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Zuran Orb
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Mox Diamond
Lands [37]
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
3 Maze of Ith
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
2 Taiga
1 Forest
4 Windswept Heath
3 Tranquil Thicket
3 Tolaria West
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Karakas
1 Academy Ruins
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
Sideboard:
4 Dark Confidant
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Trinisphere
2 Krosan Grip
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Crucible of Worlds
Round 1 against David playing Mono Red Burn
SB: -2 Tranquil Thickets, -2 Manabonds, -1 Ensnaring Bridge, -1 Karakas. +4 Chalice, +2 Trinisphere
Game 1
I know David from a local store. Nice guy, new to Legacy, and/or magic in general. He usually plays Dredge or Burn. I win the roll and as I fan open the opening 7 I keep this in mind. I keep a hand of Fetch, Trop, Orb, Exploration, Loam, Chasm, and Tolaria West. Good hand against both. He gets me to around 8 before he is out of gas and I have loam and orb going with chasm. He goes to game 2. Interesting note, Goblin Guide draws me 14 cards this game.
Game 2
Open up a hand of Mox Diamond, exploration, loam, chalice, maze, chasm, tolaria west. He lands a goblin guide. My turn, I don't go crazy on him and just play out loam for the dredging to be nice and let him enjoy the game and go easy on him. He lands another guide and chain lightning + fireblast. That's easy enough. I end up getting Orb, chalice on 1 and trinisphere out to which he laughs, tells me he's glad I don't play this very often in our l events, shakes my hand, and signs the slip.
1-0
Round 2
I apologize, but I forgot to write my opponents name down, I think it was David Clark playing Jund NicFit Scapeshift Veteran Explorer.dec
SB: -2 Manabond, -1 Karaks, -2 Tranquil Thicket, -1 Ensnaring Bridge. +2 Trinisphere, +1 Crucible, +4 Bob
Game 1
I go Diamond, Diamond, Trop, Loam, Manabond 2x Mazes, and a Tabernacle into play. No one beats this. Burning Wish for Slaughter Games, Eternal Witness for Slaughter Games, Burning Wish for Slaughter Games, Volrath's Stronghold. /wrists. 7 minutes later my loams, punishing fires, and intuitions are gone and I get Scapeshifted.
Game 2
Same thing from him, except it just takes longer. He was a nice guy, super chill, and easy to cut up with; exactly the kind of person I wish to play with and against. NicFit has always given me trouble, but this was the worst simply because I couldn't grind him out nor present a relevant clock, nor contain his mana. Oh well, thems the beats.
1-1
Round 3
Gerald playing Esper StoneBlade
SB: -1 Karakas, -2 Manabond, -2 Tranquil Thickets, -1 Maze. +2 Krosan Grip, +4 Bob
Game 1
I open on Exploration to a sigh and a "I have no clue what to do against this deck." I'll take it. He gets me to 14 before the game is over. His opener had 3 non-basics and mine had 2 wastelands and a loam, and a punishing fire for the stoneforge into batterskull. He eventually gets 3 basics and a lingering souls + flashback but EE takes that and by now I am ghost quartering him twice a turn.
Game 2
He fetches all basics I have a slower draw without an exploration. He gets me to 4 with a geist, snapcaster, and stoneforge. I Krosan gripped his Feast/Famine Sword. Eventually I resolve Intuition for 3 explorations, land that, and begin ghost quartering and wastelanding him. He gets me to 2 before I need to get Zuran Orb, and after that I get rid of all his lands and play my favorite card in the game, Tabernacle.
2-1
Round 4 Matt playing Junk
This match took around 10-15 minutes. He played 5 lands, 3 creatures, and a sylvan library in 2 games. I Both games I opened on something like exploration, waste, waste, loam, mox diamond. I genuinely felt bad for doing this to the guy.
3-1
Round 5
Justin Playing Dredge
-4 Punishing Fire. +1 Tormod's Crypt, +1 EE, +2 Trinisphere
He flashes me a Golgari Troll and a Bridge from Below while he's shuffling. Obviously he's playing High Tide.
Game 1
I open on Exploration, wasteland, loam. He takes a mulligan to 5 or 4. He scoops after I drop Ensnaring Bridge and empty my hand, saying he has no outs.
Game 2
He's on the draw discard plan. His first play is pretty fantastic LED, LED, 2x Flashback Faithless Lootings Dredging 4 Bridges, 4 Ichorids, and 2 Narcomeobas. No Cabal Therapies though. He laughs and says beat that. Mox Diamond, MoxDiamond, Academy Ruins, Xmute for Tormod's Crypt. I reply beat THAT. He laughs, says he can't, and scoops. A super chill local guy and pretty funny. I'll take it.
4-1
Round 6
Chris Boozier on U/W/r RiP/Energy Field/Helm of Obedience
Game 1
This was the first grindy match of the day. We get deckchecked, laugh, and suggest pulling out different decks to play with. He laughs, says he has RUG. I laugh and pull out ANT. We get our decks back and begin. He is short on mana and ports and a few wastes get him in check before counterbalance and top come online. I eventually grind him out after blowing up his RiP with EE. He scoops after I get rid of all his white sources and start sending creeping tard pit and punishing fires at him.
Games 2 and 3 play out in a similar manner, except game 2 I almost win on the back of dark Confidants, but can't draw a Krosan Grip nor an EE or TWest to stop the blood moon that is shutting off my wastelands from killing his only 4 lands, which are 3 nonbasics and an island. Eventually he draws a plains and gets stoneforge into batterskull. 2 Bobs get him to 11 before batterskull takes over, but they never draw the answer I need.
Game 3
I mull to 4 to his turn 2 RiP, Turn 3 CB/Top, Turn 4 Blood Moon, Turn 5 Jace.
Oh well, disappointing, but it happens. So no top 8 for me, yet again, but I'm enjoying myself and all my friends are still in contention for money so we decide to keep going. I don't get to play very often due to money, school, and life, and I get to see all of my friends even less, so I rarely drop from an event unless I'm absolutely miserable.
Round 6
Nick on 12-post
SB: -2 Tranquil Thickets, -4 Punishing Fire. +1 EE, +4 Bob, +1 Crucible
Game 1
I saw Nick earlier and knew he was playing 12-post. This should be over quickly, 1 basic, 0 countermagic, and easy to play around GY hate. I'm on the draw. He hasn't seen me play all day. My hand is Trop, manabond, 3 wastelands, loam, and punishing fire I think. He goes turn 1 pithing needle on Wasteland...blind.../wristsinfinitelyf7u12tableflipAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHRIGHT INTHECHILDHOOD. Turn 2 he is just plain bad mannered and drops needles 2 and 3 on Ghost Quarter and Rishadan Port. Fine, I'll find an EE and stop this crap. Never see the EE, Tolaria West, nor an Intuition.
Game 2
I get the same exact hand with turn 1 bob and an exploration. He's never in this game.
Game 3
We end up drawing. I don't remember much other than I play around surgical like a boss, until the end, when time is running out and I'm forced to make a play. I have Loam, Ghost Quarter, Wasteland, and Rishadan Port in the GY. and 1 waste and 1 port in play to not get extracted. I loam for those 3. He windmill slams not 1, not 2, not 3, but 4 surgicals. I counter 1 by cycling tranquil thicket, but he gets the wastelands, ports, and the ghost quarter. I dredge my Crucible as well. at the end of my turn he expedition maps for bojuka bog and my academy ruins is tapped. sigh... we end up drawing.
Pretty sure I was exhausted and played bad far more than he was lucky. Oh well, now I know how to play against the deck. I might have sideboarded incorrectly as well, maybe chalice of the void should have come in.
4-2-1
Round 8
Joel with Maverick Splashing black for Abrupt Decay and Shaman
SB: -2 Tranquil Thicket, -2 Manabond. +1 EE, +1 Crucible, +1 Tormod's Crypt, + 2 Krosan Grip
Game 1
I'm on tilt, I play okay versus good, and get promptly punished for it. Scryb Ranger is a card. It is the direct counter to wasteland in this deck. I never see a punishing fire, intuition, or an EE. 2 timely wastelands get my maze of iths and I can't get a loam to get them back and get killed by a scryb ranger with sword of fire and ice.
Game 2 is a horrible grind fest. It takes about 35 minutes and we draw it. I mess up bad and get my loams surgicaled by not leaving up green for cycling. I manage to finally gain control with an ensnaring bridge, crucible, zuran orb, and some punishing fires but I can't kill him fast enough and this match goes to him 1-0-1.
4-3-1
As an aside, I say that my record is 5-2-2, but the actual record on the books is 5-3-1. We have a chat after we finish, along with friends and the consensus is that had I not played bad and mulliganed better, I was a strong favorite. He even admitted that with a reasonable draw, I should win and probably would in an untimed match. That's why I say my record is 5-2-2. I have only lost to decks like this 2-3 times. I feel comfortable saying I have around a 95% win rate.
Round 9
Jeremy with Affinity
SB: -1 Karakas, -1 Tranquil Thicket, -1 Tolaria West, -1 Rishadan Port. +2 Trinisphere, +2 Krosan Grip
Game 1
Game takes 35 minutes. I intentionally take as much time to kill him as possible. The game is over on turn 5 when I have Ensnaring Bridge, Tabernacle, Manabond and 3 Wastelands in the GY along with 2 groves for the punishing fire. Throughout the day there were 2-3 people that would watch my matches and chat with me about the deck as they were interested in it. I played with my hand face up and explained most of my decisions to them and my opponent. He was locked and I was content to sit there until I had 10 minutes left and kill him with tard pit and punishing fires. I enjoy talking theory with people quite a bit and it was neat having the improvised q and a session like this. No disrespect to my opponent, but Lands cannot lose to affinity and he should have packed it in on turn 5.
Game 2 is much of the same except my opponent only has one land, AWWWWWW YEAAAAAH! Darksteel Citadel. I ask the judge watching us if I can change the name on my deck sheet to Bad Luck Brian. Everyone laughs. Ensnaring Bridge, Trinisphere, and a Krosan Grip later seals the deal.
5-3-1/5-2-2
Good for 52nd place and 50$. I was happy all day. My losses were 90% my fault and the deck performed quite well. I now need to buy my own Taigas and Groves, thanks to Josh Burgoa for lending me his for the event. Afterwards we went to Chili's and caught the last half or so of the superbowl. I had no inclination for either team and I don't like football near as much as I do baseball.
Any questions, comments, critiques, helpfulness is greatly appreciated and wanted. Hope you guys enjoyed the report.
Until next time,
TBryant23
Last edited by TBryant23; 02-07-2013 at 10:52 AM.
you go 5-3-1 and feel like you have a 95% winrate?
what did I overlook?
I see you chose to play two manabonds, can you talk bit about this?
you play only 7 artifacts. did you test others, and what has led to only 7?
you play 3 maze of ith. this is a little unusual, how come 3?
you bring in trinisphere for game two, having won game 1. I wonder why? most of the time, he has a full board by the time you play the trinisphere? can you talk abit about your sideboarding decisions here? I think I would be tempted to side in the second EE, but you opted not to?
This was in reference to the win rate versus that particular archetype, not on the day.you go 5-3-1 and feel like you have a 95% winrate?
what did I overlook?
I wanted the 2 Manabonds to increase the odds of a turn one Exploration/Manabond effect for one, and as a way to catch up in the later turns if I didn't have an Exploration/Manabond early game. I have played with a singular Manabond before, but in Enlightened Tutor builds where I had 2-3 Enlightened Tutors to get one if I needed it. And it made sideboarding much easier in all but 2, if I recall correctly, matches.I see you chose to play two Manabonds, can you talk bit about this?
I would usually play with an Oblivion Stone, 2nd Engineered Explosives, and possibly a Sensei's Divining Top, but with the addition of Punishing Fire and my expectations of the what the metagame would be, those didn't seem needed, felt kind of wonky and superfluous, and/or the threats they answered, were, in my logic, handled by the Ensnaring Bridge, Zuran Orb, and 1 Engineered Explosives.you play only 7 artifacts. did you test others, and what has led to only 7?
Punishing Fire/Grove of the Burnwillows Combo + Engineered Explosives, if needed, handled the little guys. Might as well have fewer not mana-producing lands.you play 3 maze of ith. this is a little unusual, how come 3?
I'm assuming you're talking about the Round 9 game against affinity here, so I'll go with my explanation for that. I saw cards like Stifle, Dispatch, Thoughtcast, etc Game 1. I can play a Trinisphere easily on turns 1 to 2 and I felt they did more for me than Karakas and 1 Rishadan Port by not allowing those turns of vomit stuff into play, and Thoughtcast multiple times in one turn.you bring in trinisphere for game two, having won game 1. I wonder why? most of the time, he has a full board by the time you play the trinisphere? can you talk abit about your sideboarding decisions here? I think I would be tempted to side in the second EE, but you opted not to?
That was a nice read and well done on winning $50 (I assume that is more than the entry fee).
On sideboard cards what do you think of Abrupt Decay vs Krosan Grip?
Also a single Crypt seems very little grave hate. Where you not expecting to need to deal with many graveyards?
Finally what are you thoughts on running a single Entomb? You seemed to have quite a few points where you were trying to dig for an answer card.
My Legacy Decks of choice: Pox, Miracles, D&T or Lands.
Online Trading Reference Checker
You can fetch Tormod's Crypt with 3 Tolaria West on MD (4 outs) and use academy ruins to cast it again.
I used to play a single copy of Entomb, and I really love this card, but with the raise of DRS Entomb has come weaker.
Lyracian,That was a nice read and well done on winning $50 (I assume that is more than the entry fee).
On sideboard cards what do you think of Abrupt Decay vs Krosan Grip?
Also a single Crypt seems very little grave hate. Where you not expecting to need to deal with many graveyards?
Finally what are you thoughts on running a single Entomb? You seemed to have quite a few points where you were trying to dig for an answer card.
Thank you and I'm glad you enjoyed it. Krosan Grip is better, in my opinion and, it is easier to cast under a Blood Moon, kills Batterskull, Sneak Attack, Omniscience, etc and ALL other equipment,and it kills weird cards like Helm of Obedience and Leylines. I haven't played with Abrupt Decay, but I can see upsides to it like an additional out to creatures like Deathrite Shaman. Scavenging Ooze, etc. On Entomb, I have played with lists that play 1-2, and it was merely okay. It's best trick, that I ever got to do with it anyway was a quick EoT fetch out a Life From the Loam to continue dredging, but your Loams should only be gone if you play carelessly OR your opponent just wants to beat the tar out of GY decks and has all the answers maindecked game 1, but mostly only lost to carelessness. On the graveyard hate issue, the deck already has game against the graveyard decks through other means. We can use Dredge as an example as it is probably the most common graveyard deck played, at least at the moment, if not period. They kill you with creatures. You have Glacial Chasm, Ensnaring Bridge, The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, and Engineered Explosives to deal with them. Removing their graveyard in game 2 is only another way to fight them as they get to bring in answers for the above cards, like Nature's Claim, Ancient Grudge, Ray of Revelation, and reanimation targets like Angel of Despair and Terrastodon. The way I see it is that you are sideboarding to beat their sideboard more than to beat their deck; Dredge goes from the combo kill to a more grind you out style deck. But sometimes, fortune smiles on you, as it did with me, and you get the crazy kills like I did. Reanimator has the same principles except you can add Karakas and Maze of Ith to the list above. Hope this gave you some insight and answered what you wanted/needed answered.
To add to what the guy above me pointed out: The dedicated graveyard decks like Dredge and Reanimator tend to be pretty good matchups already, so having more hate seems excessive. (edit: well, guess Bryant pointed that out already)
As for Grip vs Decay, Decay seems pretty hard to cast in this deck. I would tend to run neither, unless I was expecting Back to Basics specifically (and then Grip is better). Against most other stuff like Leyline, Rest in Peace, Blood Moon, random hatebears and whatever I would prefer Oblivion Stone
I also really like the Punishing Fires idea (theoretically) in the current Deathrite meta and look forward to trying it out in a tournament soon. It also sort of doubles as a solution to planeswalkers. Kudos to whoever came up with that.
I think that would be me haha lol
Today I used Abrupt Decay on SB (x2) and came up in every game. First round against BUG Agent.... he concede very frustraded. 2d Round Goblins, I won first game with 4 rishadan ports against 4 mountains and PFires... 3rd round... RUG.... I keep a hand with Grove/Fires because I didnt know what to expect.... I lost first game in no time... now I used my 15 cards on SB, play chalice at 1, trinisphere, creeping tar pit.... 2d game, chalice at 1, 2, 3, trinisphere, zuran orb, crucible... lol.... last round was against UR delver... I won 2-0... first game intuition T2 for loam glacial tolaria west, next turn Intuition for 3 Exploration and took the game... 2nd game... chalice at 1, 2, trinisphere and attack him with creeping tar
I used Abrupt Decay in Goblins, RUG and UR delver match up... against bug it would be good since he play only 3CC cards... but he conceded from G1 and told me "your deck is just brainless, you play alone, there's no interaction, cry cry cry bla bla bla" jaja
The only thing close to that I have ever gotten was something to the effect of, "You're dumb and an ass. It takes a special kind of ****** like you to play a deck like that." This was when Maverick was a DTB and I played the Enlightened Tutor build and the turn went something like Wasteland his only land, Gaea's Cradle, play Cursed Totem, play The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale. Sooooo good; everyone but the Maverick guy laughed.
My favorite one from scg Atlanta was when in round three I was seated next to brad Nelson and he told me that "players like me are what makes him hate legacy as a format. Because lands players just sit there, do nothing, and ruin everyone's tournament experience."
Whatever bro.
Sorry lurker here. Lands at least interact with the opponent. Its not belcher or dredge. I hate hearing people cry about decks. I played TES at SCG ATL and my affinity opponent goes "I play this deck because I like playing real magic"
Because Affinity is real magic HAHAHAHA
When this guy told me that.... I just said.... "dude... we play 4 swiss round tournaments.... 3 of 4 matches I play against DRS (he was playing DRS also) and the 4th match is combo.... what are you whinning about?" He was pretty upset with his board 2 goyf, 1 dark confidant, a shardless agent, 1 liliana of the veil with 5 counters, a jace tms with 9 counters and I didnt play any exploration on the entire game... just loam, maze, punishing fire, EE and academy ruins.
Ive been told I ruin everyone's tournament experience but I really dont care... I have UW miracles, Junk, Zoo, Sligh as well but I really like this deck.... I think is the hardest deck I ever had and really enjoy every victory
I'd have told him that players that don't put up a notable performance for 2 years, yet still get coverage at large events ruin my tournament experience.
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