[Deck] 43 Lands

[Dat_Gentleman]

I've found I've had a very solid matchup with miracles over the long-term, probably as high as a 70% match-win. First thing is that I'm on a 4c build with mainboard crucible, eex2, zuran orb. Second thing is that I still run a ghost-quarter. As such, My plan has pretty much always been to move to quarter and waste their mana base game one to prevent large entreats. I run a creeping tarpit as a jace-slayer MB as well. Because they're set up to be very counter-heavy game one, and don't have any relevant interaction short of a resolved jace + countertop lock at 2 and entreats, if you can disrupt their mana base early to prevent them from resolving jace or getting an entreat for more than 2 angels, you can hide behind bridges and grind out their mana base before going for a win-con. Post-board, I have a pithing needle for top, and then I usually either have access to intuition for urborg + raven's crime + loam to strip their hand early, or geist of st. win. Game-plan post-board is therefore to needle their tops, usually by k-gripping the counterbalance(s) first then slamming needle. Biggest priority postboard is probably to not let them have a Jace active without a response, because they don't have a way to win a long-game without him unless they manage to exile all of your punishing fires, your tarpit, and your DD/Stage's. It's by no means a free lunch of a matchup, but I've been playing lands all the way through since countertop/landstill was a thing, so I've got a good intuition for what the best line of play is for me in a given game.

The biggest thing with miracles players is that they're in general used to being reactive and controlling, and it takes a very experienced miracles player to recognize that in this matchup, they're the beatdown since lands (with ghost quarter) has the ability to restrict their mana base much harder over the long term than any delver, D&T, or pox deck. I can't count the games I've stolen off of miracles players who chose the control role and then lost to a quarters-lock while they scrambled to find a win-con while they still had lands available.

Could i get a list of your 4C lands build? I haven't seen a 4C list play urborg and ravens crime yet.

[BlackStarDeceiver]

From BoM coverage round 6: a Lands player is 6-0 and Phelix was 4-1 at the beginning of round 6 (with only 1 bye and if he is on Lands for this tournament). Only 2 Lands players in the room according to the metagame breakdown. And they are doing good :)

Hey guys, i am the RG Lands player who played at the BOM9.

I was at 5-0-1 going in the 7th round, lost against Marcus Olson on Miracles then won 2-0 (first turn Marit Lage game 1) against Camille on Shardless just to lose 2-1 to Alex Delgado on Miracles (match 3 was on stream) and then lost an epic Match against Michael Bonde on DNT in 3 games involving Cataclysm with 5 floating for Thalia and Flickerwisp for my Token while having lethal on the following turn with Punishing Fire even if he was able to kill Marit Lage... Cataclsm got me there. Shout out to Michael Bonde for the patience he kept and a lot of fun during the match.

I played a pretty standart RG list with 4 Crop/3 Gamble and Riftstone Portal as 61 card to fight against Blood Moon. I regret not playing 3 Slaughtergames, which would have won me probably all of my games against Miracles.

Feel free to ask any further ;)

[Phelix]

@BlackstarDeciever

Hey Man.

Grats anyway, and thanks for comming over to talk to me :)

Will be watching the games on twitch as soon as i can.

I went 5-1-1 at the saturday legacy event, with a Classic build, w. crops in the side.


Currently Brewing:

Classic build w. maindeck crops, and Sideboard Defense grid.


Sidenote:

Vs DNT, its about one thing only: Keeping them of cataclysm mana. (and yes, ive played a reasonable amount of games vs michael)


EDIT:
Anen: Like a fool, i played Elves Again - just like last BoM. I scrubbed out after that 4-1 you mentioned. Totally shoulda stuck w. lands in that BuG meta.
Sidenote: I also failed last BoM.

Lesson learned: Dont play dem freaking elves at BoM no more!

[fdiv_bug]

I played a pretty standart RG list with 4 Crop/3 Gamble and Riftstone Portal as 61 card to fight against Blood Moon. I regret not playing 3 Slaughtergames, which would have won me probably all of my games against Miracles.

Would you be willing to share your complete list (or feel free to point me somewhere it's already posted)? I've been out of the game for several months due to real life, but I'm about to start up again and I'm always keen to see what's happening in the world of Lands. And `grats on a decent performance at a seriously large event!

[BlackStarDeceiver]

Hey Man.

Grats anyway, and thanks for comming over to talk to me :)

Will be watching the games on twitch as soon as i can.

Always a pleasure to meet people with a good taste in magic decks ;)

"I once met a guy that read my Glacial Chasm, said okay, then proceeded to bolt my face. Oh it was just now and it's you." Hilarious moment, awesome match from your side.

Fun fact: i only played against 1 BUG deck the whole day and 4 times against Miracles...

R1 2-1 against Canadian
R2 2-1 against Patriot Blade (thought he was on Miracles after he scooped to 6 Rishadan Ports game 1)
R3 1-1-1 against Yohan Dudognon on Miracles
R4 2-0 against Miracles
R5 2-0 backup feature match against Smallpox (T3 kill both games)
R6 2-0 against Elves
R7 0-2 against Marcus Olson on Miracles
R8 2-0 against Shardless
R9 1-2 against Alex Delgado on Miracles
R10 1-2 against Michael Bonde on DNT

List was:

4 Life from the Loam
2 Manabond
4 Exploration
4 Mox Diamond
1 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
3 Tranquil Thicket
4 Maze of Ith
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
4 Punishing Fire
2 Taiga
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Gamble
4 Crop Rotation
2 Dark Depths
4 Thespian's Stage
3 Windswept Heath
1 Karakas
1 Riftstone Portal
1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Dark Depths
SB: 4 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 2 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 1 Primeval Titan
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Ashen Rider


Riftstone won me 2 Games once against Moon and once because i could tap Mazes and Tabernacle for mana
REB worked fine against Miracles, countering CB and killing a Jace. Should be Slaughtergames though, with one Bayou instead of Maze #4 (Thespian helps a lot here)
Ashen Rider was experimental against random SNT, i did not even see one beeing played around me.

Talked to Loxmati on Thursday and we figured this out together somehow. I was willing to try some stuff as i did not expect to do particularly well, just playing for the funsies.

[Phelix]

Loxmati is super fun.

"I once met a guy that read my Glacial Chasm, said okay, then proceeded to bolt my face. Oh it was just now and it's you."

Haha, yeah.

was awesome.

To outsiders:

Im playing the last round of a circa 100 people legacy side event. Vs nice guy on UR delver, w. Price, bloodmoon etc.

Game one i drop glacial chasm, he reads it, and I tell him a story from a few days back, where I let a guy read chasm, WHO then asks:

But I can attack you?
"-yes"

I can attack?
"-Yes"

Eqiups jitte to his batterskull to swing into my chasm for 0.

My opponent laughs at the story, then puts chasm back into play, and bolts me.

I say "Ok."

He facepalms.




Then tell him this story:

"I once met a guy that read my Glacial Chasm, said okay, then proceeded to bolt my face. Oh it was just now and it's you."



.

Im no deuche, just friendly bantering - my opponent laughed, it was all good :)

[Phelix]

test

[Phelix]

my list from 5-1-1. (not recommended build)

Meta was combo light - and I removed bojuka bog as a metagame choice. I faced 1 dredgre and won 2-0 siding loads of Cards, including sphere, bridge and chalices. Ofc crop rotations are game over here, even if i dont get bog.(flayerdredge)


As mentioned before, id recommend focusing more on combo, w. maindeck crop rotations.

1 Forest
1 Bayou
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial Chasm
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Tranquil Thicket
3 Maze of Ith
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Rishadan Port
1 Taiga
1 Thespian's Stage
2 Tolaria West
3 Tropical Island
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 Windswept Heath
1 Academy Ruins
1 Karakas
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Dark Depths

1 Engineered Explosives
1 Oblivion Stone
4 Mox Diamond
1 Zuran Orb
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Smokestack
1 Crucible of Worlds


1 Manabond
4 Exploration

1 Worm Harvest
3 Intuition
3 Punishing Fire
4 Life from the Loam

// Sideboard:
SB: 2 Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 2 Crop Rotation
SB: 3 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 4 Dark Confidant
SB: 2 Krosan Grip

[snorlaxcom]

Can the primer get an update/overhaul? It has long been overdue, but I'd like to help. Still waiting for part 9, too.

[Anen]

Can the primer get an update/overhaul? It has long been overdue, but I'd like to help. Still waiting for part 9, too.

Yeah, with the Depths combo we have a new angle of attack that need to be included. However I think the RG combo version of Lands deserves its own thread, pretty much like the Jund Liliana list has one in developmental.

[Phelix]

Yeah, with the Depths combo we have a new angle of attack that need to be included. However I think the RG combo version of Lands deserves its own thread, pretty much like the Jund Liliana list has one in developmental.

i agree. since one is a combo deck, the other a control.

[snorlaxcom]

Not interested in a primer for Kurt's list. Needs it's own thread.

How does an update happen? We start from what is already posted from OP? Has some key analysis already, but can only Tao do it? Didn't get a response when I pm'd in December.

[Anen]

Not interested in a primer for Kurt's list. Needs it's own thread.

How does an update happen? We start from what is already posted from OP? Has some key analysis already, but can only Tao do it?

Yeah not interested in the RG primer neither xD
Cuthbertthecat and Malacoda did a very good job 2 years ago by rewritting the all primer. However, they are not playing Lands any longer I think.
Maybe you should open a public Google doc so people can contribute. Tao is still active on the forums, so when we consider the update is ready we could just ask him to update his post. Only him and mods can update the first post.

[Tyrio]

Probably going to run this Sparkii inspired list at Knoxville:

4 Exploration
4 Life from the Loam
4 Mox Diamond
3 Punishing Fire
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Zuran Orb
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Crucible of Worlds
3 Intuition
2 Crop Rotation

1 Misty Rainforest
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Verdant Catacombs
3 Tropical Island
1 Taiga
1 Savannah
1 Forest
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Tranquil Thicket
2 Tolaria West
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Karakas
1 Academy Ruins
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Thespian Stage
2 Dark Depths
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Maze of Ith

SB:
3 Krosan Grip
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Sphere of Resistance
2 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Swan Song

At 61 cards for the Bojuka Bog. I really want to jam a 3rd Engineered Explosives into the MD somewhere; with 1 less Tolaria West it's slightly harder to find and it kills DRS and RiP which are pretty much the only permanents we care about. Maybe I can shave away the 2nd copies of Stage and Dark Depths for it to go back down to 60 but with 2 copies of each I've definitely been noticing the increase in naturally drawn Marit Lages.

I've been liking the white splash and Thalia over Bob a lot, even though she comes in less match ups. Not sure if the Thorn/Sphere split is worth it to accommodate my abundance of hatebears vs. playing against Elves.

[Phelix]

consider cutting white.,


it lets you play ghost quarter main.

[Tyrio]

Went 6-2 and got 19th with poor breakers and the below match ups at SCG Knoxville.

1-2 Deathblade
2-1 Jund
2-0 Affinity
2-0 UWR Delver
2-0 BG Pox
1-2 UR Delver
2-0 Affinity
2-1 DnT w/ GQ and Arbiter

List was same as above but with the 3rd EE in place of the 2nd Crop Rotation. Crop Rotation gave me a few kills against Jund and Affinity, but I could have probably won those games if they went longer anyway and overall the Rotations still felt weak. Rotation greatly increases the power of Bojuka Bog and Glacial Chasm, but I feel like it doesn't do much to improve your board presence if you're missing one of your Marit Lage pieces.

During the open trial I was preemptively placing EE on 1 blindly on the play and was generally punished for it, especially in post-boarded games against decks with RiP. I suppose it should be pretty obvious in retrospect to put it on 2 against DnT though, since they have so many of their creatures/RiP clustered around the 2 mana slot.

I think the 3rd EE was good, but with only a small cluster of games and a lot of good matchups it's hard to tell if it made a large impact or not.

As far as the actual games went: Game 1 against Deathblade was a blowout with Exploration and natural Marit Lage on t3 with Port backup. Game 2 was the grindfest with him Extracting my PFires and making it extremely difficult to deal with Jace and Clique+Karakas. He eventually bounces his own Snapcaster so I can never recur EE and eventually grinds me out. There was one amusing point where he Cliques away my Loam and I draw another off the Clique trigger, but I crucially forget to leave a green source open for Thicket, instead choosing to Port him, and he promptly eats it with DRS. Game 3 I keep a hand with PFire and Exploration but no action and appropriately draw no action before he creatures me out. He apparently sided out his Stoneforge package and had no RiPs to begin with, leaving my Krosan Grips useless. Maybe I should have deduced that with him brainstorming approximately 10 times with Jace in game 2 and never seeing an enchantment/artifact and the fact that he never took my Grips with something like 5 Clique activations? Who knows.

The next 4 rounds were typical affairs, Crop Rotation may have won me the Jund match, where I rotated into Marit Lage g3 against 2 Goyfs when (I think) I had no other action. Patriot, Affinity and Pox were stomps. At one point Patriot had to Plowshares my Revoker because after Plowing Marit Lage it was legitimately racing his two flipped Delvers. Playing against Pox was fun, because that poor deck has literally no game against us.

Played against UR Delver round 5. He opens with fetch for Gitaxian Probe, fetch for Island, Ponder. Then over the next few turns has some more cantrips, an Arid Mesa and a mountain and I put him on SnS with an awkward draw. On turn 4 he finally plays a Goblin Guide and I just start laughing. Anyway he finds 2 Price of Progress game 1 but crucially lets me resolve Zuran Orb before PoPing, which lets me race him with Marit Lage by 1 turn.

I punt in game 3 after he brainstorm locks himself by Crop Rotating for a white source for Thalia. I choose to Rotate for Fetchland->Savannah, but should have rotated for Karakas to protect her instead. I'm appropriately punished when he eventually draws his lands and kills Thalia, and I assembly zero pressure over some 8 turns after casting Thalia.

Nothing notable about the next two games. Affinity has zero game pre-board against Glacial Chasm and post-board is hardly better. I split the cash prize with DnT but we played it out anyway. I chose to EE away an Arbiter and Thalia instead of Brimaz, and then died to the king of cats. Games 2 and 3 he made some poor decisions with his porting which gave me a lot of time to take control of the game.

Overall I had good matchups all day but still managed to punt like usual. Made some Monopoly money in the end though and had fun, opponents were nice and local buddy Megadeus managed to top 8 with Deadguy.

[Phelix]

I have had the opposite experience, where crops were always the nuts.

also i have struggled in the jund matchup - do you actively go for combo, over control here? whats your mulligan range vs them and how do you chose to board?


(The above statements are based on an small sample size of 20-40 games)

[Anen]

I usually Crop in response to a Wasteland because you are right it doesn't advance our board state if you do otherwise. And unless I can do something crazy with it, it just sits in my hand.

[amalek0]

I have had the opposite experience, where crops were always the nuts.

also i have struggled in the jund matchup - do you active go for combo, over control here? whats your mulligan range vs them and how do you chose to board?


(The above statements are based on an small sample size of 20-40 games)

I've never found the jund matchup to be a problem--establish punishing fire lock to prevent their creatures from being relevant, get an exploration online to ensure they don't get randomly lucky and manascrew you out, and just strangle their manabase. I never actively look to combo, except against fast combo. I board in bobs if I'm on that plan, and crucible/additional EE/additional punishing fire, boarding out karakas/dead tutor targets, intuitions and manabonds. Jund is basically a fair deck, so stabilize against their board, establish an EE or punishing fire lock, then get wastelands/ghost quarters and go to town on their mana base. I don't board out zuran orb for this matchup, but will often board out the 3rd tolaria west.

[Sparkii]

I'm glad you enjoyed the list Tyrio, congrats on the finish.

Overall, I think crop rotation is the nuts. Even changing an unused dual into a port or something is really, really good.