[Deck] 43 Lands

[sdematt]

The hardest variable to control when playing 43 lands is your opponent, I agree 100%. You can get as good as you want with the deck, but they're still allowed time to think, and since there's many things to do, they sit around quite a bit. You can play fast, but your opponent's speed is always the issue.

-Matt

[cuthbertthecat]

Just got back from SCG Des Moines, I went a disappointing 3-3 drop. Despite the lack of combo in the top 16, the metagame was actually very combo heavy. My losses were to TES, Spiral Tide, and RUG Delver (Game one, he drew a red source to go with his exactly lethal bolt the turn before he would be locked out of the game, game two I didn't really see anything and died to mongeese). My wins were against Dredge, Maverick, and Goblins. After the loss to RUG Delver, I want to incorporate some number of factories into the maindeck. The two big problems are a) what to cut, and b) I don't own foil factories.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

Just got back from SCG Des Moines, I went a disappointing 3-3 drop. Despite the lack of combo in the top 16, the metagame was actually very combo heavy. My losses were to TES, Spiral Tide, and RUG Delver (Game one, he drew a red source to go with his exactly lethal bolt the turn before he would be locked out of the game, game two I didn't really see anything and died to mongeese). My wins were against Dredge, Maverick, and Goblins. After the loss to RUG Delver, I want to incorporate some number of factories into the maindeck. The two big problems are a) what to cut, and b) I don't own foil factories.

[movingtonewao]

off topic a little here, but is it a big problem if you don't have foil factories?

whats the general rule for running foils btw...do you have to have a certain number of foil cards in your deck before its legal or something.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

off topic a little here, but is it a big problem if you don't have foil factories?

whats the general rule for running foils btw...do you have to have a certain number of foil cards in your deck before its legal or something.

Yes.

Foil > Non-Foil

[cuthbertthecat]

off topic a little here, but is it a big problem if you don't have foil factories?

whats the general rule for running foils btw...do you have to have a certain number of foil cards in your deck before its legal or something.

It's slightly an issue, because I've spent a lot of time foiling out the deck in its current form, so just throwing in some non-foils makes it much less awesome. I could play with a winter one and another one of some other season, but it isn't as cool.

Yes.

Foil > Non-Foil

Essentially, this. Only a fellow pimp can truly understand.

[into_play]

Just got back from SCG Des Moines, I went a disappointing 3-3 drop. Despite the lack of combo in the top 16, the metagame was actually very combo heavy. My losses were to TES, Spiral Tide, and RUG Delver (Game one, he drew a red source to go with his exactly lethal bolt the turn before he would be locked out of the game, game two I didn't really see anything and died to mongeese). My wins were against Dredge, Maverick, and Goblins. After the loss to RUG Delver, I want to incorporate some number of factories into the maindeck. The two big problems are a) what to cut, and b) I don't own foil factories.

That is a pretty rough lineup to face. I've always missed having factories whenever I had less than two; I would aim for three but have that exact same problem as of what to cut. How many Manabonds and SDT's are you running? I'm running two of each and have always been on the fence about swapping the second of each for factories. Manabond is probably fine as a 1-of, but the top just plays so well with the deck. Those would be the first two cards I might consider if I wanted the manlands back in.

[cuthbertthecat]

That is a pretty rough lineup to face. I've always missed having factories whenever I had less than two; I would aim for three but have that exact same problem as of what to cut. How many Manabonds and SDT's are you running? I'm running two of each and have always been on the fence about swapping the second of each for factories. Manabond is probably fine as a 1-of, but the top just plays so well with the deck. Those would be the first two cards I might consider if I wanted the manlands back in.

I could see cutting the manabonds; they're great against blue if you draw them with loam but you don't really want to draw them against maverick or without loam, and I already board them out for games two and three anyway.

[Malacoda]

Just got back from SCG Des Moines, I went a disappointing 3-3 drop. Despite the lack of combo in the top 16, the metagame was actually very combo heavy. My losses were to TES, Spiral Tide, and RUG Delver (Game one, he drew a red source to go with his exactly lethal bolt the turn before he would be locked out of the game, game two I didn't really see anything and died to mongeese). My wins were against Dredge, Maverick, and Goblins. After the loss to RUG Delver, I want to incorporate some number of factories into the maindeck. The two big problems are a) what to cut, and b) I don't own foil factories.

Sorry about your bad luck :P

The RUG thing is unfortunate and is why I've been able to justify Factories for a while (currently running 2). What's your current list? I had to squeeze in Factories myself a while back. I'm actually at 61 cards right now; don't know if you'd be comfortable doing that. I figure that I run 8 nontutorable cards in my entire 75 - 4 being Loam (since I run 0 Entomb/Intuition) and 4 being E-Tutor itself, so it's ok.

That is a pretty rough lineup to face. I've always missed having factories whenever I had less than two; I would aim for three but have that exact same problem as of what to cut. How many Manabonds and SDT's are you running? I'm running two of each and have always been on the fence about swapping the second of each for factories. Manabond is probably fine as a 1-of, but the top just plays so well with the deck. Those would be the first two cards I might consider if I wanted the manlands back in.

I used to run 2 Tops but found that I never really wanted more than 1 since they're a) fairly redundant and b) quite mana intensive. We generally don't want to clog up our turns with Top activations, though they do make our Loams better. I didn't want to cut it entirely for that reason as well as its synergy with Bob, but I think 2 is too many. Cutting Manabond is fine but keep in mind that having Manabonds makes the boarding process somewhat easier and that they really can just be a straight blowout G1.

[cuthbertthecat]

Sorry about your bad luck :P

The RUG thing is unfortunate and is why I've been able to justify Factories for a while (currently running 2). What's your current list? I had to squeeze in Factories myself a while back. I'm actually at 61 cards right now; don't know if you'd be comfortable doing that. I figure that I run 8 nontutorable cards in my entire 75 - 4 being Loam (since I run 0 Entomb/Intuition) and 4 being E-Tutor itself, so it's ok.



I used to run 2 Tops but found that I never really wanted more than 1 since they're a) fairly redundant and b) quite mana intensive. We generally don't want to clog up our turns with Top activations, though they do make our Loams better. I didn't want to cut it entirely for that reason as well as its synergy with Bob, but I think 2 is too many. Cutting Manabond is fine but keep in mind that having Manabonds makes the boarding process somewhat easier and that they really can just be a straight blowout G1.

My list is the same as before, but for reference

4 Exploration
4 Life from the Loam
4 Intuition
4 Mox Diamond
3 Enlightened Tutor
2 Manabond
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Cursed Totem
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Zuran Orb
4 Maze of Ith
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Windswept Heath
3 Tolaria West
2 Tranquil Thicket
3 Tropical Island
1 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Forest
1 Academy Ruins
1 Karakas
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial Chasm

Sideboard:

1 Tormod's Crypt
3 Chalice of the Void
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Circle of Protection:Red
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Dark Confidant
3 Oblivion Stone

I think I'd be fine just cutting the manabonds, or at least one of them, especially because I still run intuition. I don't really tutor for manabond except for game one against blade variants if I have loam as I have silver bullets that are much better against Maverick and RUG (Totem and Bridge). Hell, against blade, you are usually fine without accelerants, especially so against the lists that don't run waste.

I could also shave an intuition and go up to 35 lands; I've done this in the past when NO Rug was big and I wanted Prahv, Spires of Order as an answer, and I didn't notice too much of a change in consistancy.

How are you liking 4 E-Tutor? I've always imagined it'd be clunky, but the last five matches against maverick I've played have gone to game three because one of the games has had me drawing little business, so it may well be right.

[movingtonewao]

Hi i'm just wondering what our options are when we're facing down a batterskull sitting in front of a jace g1? It happened to me once as I was testing with my friends blade deck and I wonder if its an autoscoop.

[Julian23]

Attacking past it with Creeping Tar Pit works quite well. You can also try to use Engineered Explosives to get rid off either the germ token or the usually low-casting-cost creature carrying Batterskull.

Make sure to tap down their white mana though to prevent them from exiling your best weapon against Jace.

[movingtonewao]

-posted this on mtgsalvation as well, but decided to post here to share my experience with you guys too-

Had a horrid time at a 32 man tournament today.

Round 1: esper stoneblade 2-0 win

G1: I slow rolled him and took my time to win game 1, knowing I'm having full control. Wasteland+loam basically got it for me. I did see lingering souls (answered by tolaria west + explosives) and stoneforge into batterskull (answered by mazes) but thats it. He started packing when 35 minutes have passed and he realised he was going nowhere.

G2: He brought in surgical extractions. At some point he extractions away my wasteland (instead of loam - huge play error on his part). I had the tranquil thicket in hand all game long so its irrelevant in the end. He played a jace at some point but he had to tap out to do so and it was in desperation (because he used the brainstorm), i already had creeping tar pit and mishra's factory by then so no problems. I just lock him up pretty much the same way i did in G1.

thoughts: insanely good matchup, no way we can lose this?

Round 2: high tide 0-2 loss

G1: I don't have chalices mainboard. Lose in double quick time. I notice he has candelabras.

G2: got him down to 5 life with a combination of double bob, ethersworn canonist, pithing needle naming candelabra. He force of wills my chalice on 1 at some point. Then before going off, he echoing truths my canonist and then thats it.

thoughts: ****, no chance at all.

Round 3: burn 0-2 loss

G1: showed him a chasm, asked him if he can beat it, he said yes and proceeded to use instant speed burns.

G2: play error (i thought i could transmute anytime but its only a sorcery), wanted to find my zuran orb but because of play error i could only do it a turn later. He responded to the transmute with 2 bolts and a fireblast and thats it.

thoughts: boarded in COP red and the tutor to find it, no luck

Round 4: high tide/severance belcher hybrid 0-2 loss

G1: no way to interact, lost via severence belcher on t3 or 4.

G2: lost again when he has 2 high tides in opening hand.

thoughts: nothing i could do

overall 1-3 drop...i had so many dead cards most games, maindeck cursed totem, tabernacle, maze of iths etc...

then somebody came over and said current metagame in my area is more towards control and combo....can someone recommend me a deck that can handle control and combo well? I should play that until the meta is more favourable toward playing lands again.

Dont get me wrong I'm not jumping ship, i love lands and all its just that maybe now isn't the right environment for me to play it.

@malacoda:
thanks for answering my PMs in really quick time, I hoped I could have done better to justify that.

[PollePotDK]

My list is the same as before, but for reference

4 Exploration
4 Life from the Loam
4 Intuition
4 Mox Diamond
3 Enlightened Tutor
2 Manabond
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Cursed Totem
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Zuran Orb
4 Maze of Ith
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Windswept Heath
3 Tolaria West
2 Tranquil Thicket
3 Tropical Island
1 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Forest
1 Academy Ruins
1 Karakas
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial Chasm

Sideboard:

1 Tormod's Crypt
3 Chalice of the Void
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Circle of Protection:Red
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Dark Confidant
3 Oblivion Stone

I think I'd be fine just cutting the manabonds, or at least one of them, especially because I still run intuition. I don't really tutor for manabond except for game one against blade variants if I have loam as I have silver bullets that are much better against Maverick and RUG (Totem and Bridge). Hell, against blade, you are usually fine without accelerants, especially so against the lists that don't run waste.

I could also shave an intuition and go up to 35 lands; I've done this in the past when NO Rug was big and I wanted Prahv, Spires of Order as an answer, and I didn't notice too much of a change in consistancy.

How are you liking 4 E-Tutor? I've always imagined it'd be clunky, but the last five matches against maverick I've played have gone to game three because one of the games has had me drawing little business, so it may well be right.

In the above list - are there really only one card that's a win condition (Creeping Tarpit)? Isn't that a bit risky? Please enlighted me (note: I don't play Lands myself - just came around the tread and wondered )

[cuthbertthecat]

In the above list - are there really only one card that's a win condition (Creeping Tarpit)? Isn't that a bit risky? Please enlighted me (note: I don't play Lands myself - just came around the tread and wondered )

It seems that way, but game 1, your opponent is unlikely to exile Tar Pit if you play smart (not activating it into open white without a wasteland or zuran orb in play, etc.), and game 2, you have Dark Confidant and other utility dorks that can win you the game. Also, if for some reason Tar Pit is exiled game one, you can always win with Academy Ruins, stacking a Mox Diamond every turn until your opponent decks.

[Julian23]

In game1, Academy Ruins is a perfectly fine win condition if you run Ghost Quarter.

[PollePotDK]

Oki - so basicly go for the 1-0 win? - since the opp. will deck himself.

[cuthbertthecat]

Oki - so basicly go for the 1-0 win? - since the opp. will deck himself.

Pretty much, most smart opponents will scoop once they realize what you're doing though.

[cuthbertthecat]

New list, took out an intuition for a factory in the main and cut the sideboard ethersworn canonist for a chalice of the void. They're basically the same card against combo, with Chalice being relevant in other matchups. Considering cutting the maindeck totem for the second factory, RUG is currently more popular than Maverick, at least on the SCG circut, the totem would go in the board over the Phyrexian Revoker, another card that I rarely board in.

For reference:
4 Exploration
4 Life from the Loam
3 Intuition
4 Mox Diamond
3 Enlightened Tutor
2 Manabond
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Cursed Totem
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Zuran Orb
4 Maze of Ith
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Windswept Heath
3 Tolaria West
2 Tranquil Thicket
3 Tropical Island
1 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Forest
1 Academy Ruins
1 Karakas
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Mishra's Factory

Sideboard:

1 Tormod's Crypt
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Circle of Protection:Red
1 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Dark Confidant
3 Oblivion Stone

[LowBeyonder]

Cutting Canonist from the side is a mistake, IMO. She stops them from tutoring/wishing for an answer and casting it on the same turn and also turns sideways to provide a clock, something the deck badly needs against combo.