Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 87

Thread: [Article] The Future of Legacy

  1. #21
    */*
    Nightmare's Avatar
    Join Date

    Dec 2004
    Location

    Syracuse, NY
    Posts

    207,137

    Re: [Article] The Future of Legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by Alfred View Post
    Guys, Oath of Druids would ruin the format. I don't know why any of you would agree with it's unbanning.
    Because Turboland is a fun deck, and I want it to be good again?

  2. #22

    Re: [Article] The Future of Legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Nightmare View Post
    Because Turboland is a fun deck, and I want it to be good again?
    At least you're honest ;)
    KIDS WITH GUNS!

  3. #23
    I like Tacos.
    dahcmai's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jan 2006
    Location

    Traverse City, MI
    Posts

    2,202

    Re: [Article] The Future of Legacy

    Some cards that are on the list exist for no reason:

    Land tax, Replenish, Mind over Matter, Entomb, etc.

    The reason those are still on is because of some nasty little combos that existed back in the day that would still be impressive.

    Replenish still has the pandeburst combo which would be quite easy with todays Lotus petals being around. Even the cheesy Wave and Tide thing would be hard to deal with.

    Land tax would bring back Scroll tax. One very good Legacy deck. Though I would be interested to see how it would hold up under today's decks. I think this one might be worth arguing over considering Solidarity and Iggy pop are now faster decks than it was. There isn't anything that can meet it's card drawing power though today. Loam decks would go nuts, that's for sure.

    Ok, Mind over matter still sucks. That Urza's Blueprints trick is pretty funny though.

    Entomb - One of my favorite cards of all time. It won me entirely too many 1.5 tournies though playing my favorite Reanimator. Nothing like 1st turn Dark Ritual, Entomb, get Nicol Bolas, Shallow grave him, Hit for 7 and take their hand. It's truly evil and amazingly easy to do, espeically with the newer cards to make it redundant.

  4. #24
    Banned

    Join Date

    Aug 2006
    Location

    San Diego
    Posts

    416

    Re: [Article] The Future of Legacy

    I read your article, and I have to say that I disagree with most of what you wrote.

    The fact that you say some cards are on the Banned list could be dealt with by Goblins, Threshold, or Solidarity should it be unbanned is not a good argument.

    The Banned list provides the format that we now have. You are right in saying that many of those cards should they become unbanned, would be able to be dealt with by the top three decks, but most of the other decks in the format could not deal with what unbanning them would release.

    Thus if you unban some of the cards you mentioned, you force the Format to shift. Players either play the better cards that are now unbanned, or play one of the top 3 decks that can deal with the unbanned cards. This will create less diversity in the format which is bad, because people will get tired of seeing the same decks over and over.

    It will bring forth a decrease in the interest of this format, and that is something we are already fighting.



    As for the cards you mentioned that should be unbanned.

    Mind Over Matter, I agree should be unbanned.

    Land Tax, unsure whether it should be unbanned, but I don't think it is something that many decks couldn't deal with.

    Entomb, No this card should not be unbanned, IT GETS ANY CARD, and will go into other deck other than Reanimator. It will force every deck to run Graveyard hate, something I don't think should have to be done.

    Hermit Druid, this should stay banned as well. I remember playing against it and I went off with my Aggro-Combo turn 2 just as the other player did, and only being able to provide blockers and stalling till turn 5. This is too quick and consistant for this format.

    Replenish, Simply said, "NO." Keep it on the Banned list, thank you.

    Grim Monolith, Again too much mana accel will lead to nothing but combo, and the fact that one card can make this go infinite is supporting the fact that this too should remain on the Banned list.


    One card that I think could be unbanned is TIME SPIRAL.

    It is possible that it would make Solidarity stronger, however I think that because of the deck's design, and the casting cost of Time Spiral, it would not be able to fit it into the deck, and if it did try and fit it in it would be like fitting it into spring tide rather than solidarity. Overall, it wouldn't impove the deck, just change the approach of an already strong deck.


    And Jaco, lol, you'd lose to your own Chaos Orb.

  5. #25
    Trop -> Nacatl Pass
    troopatroop's Avatar
    Join Date

    Dec 2003
    Location

    SUNY Geneseo
    Posts

    2,070

    Re: [Article] The Future of Legacy

    If they unbanned Worldgorger Dragon, this would be a much better format. It would actually lead to a consistant turn 3 combo deck that can disrupt your opponent. Without Bazaar, it's power level wouldn't be broken, and it still loses to STP/Disenchant/Stifle.

    At any rate, the power level of the format needs to get higher, IMO.

  6. #26
    Angel of Legacy
    Angel of Despair's Avatar
    Join Date

    Apr 2006
    Location

    Off the Wall Games
    Posts

    169

    Re: [Article] The Future of Legacy

    All I have to say is look at my Sig....\/
    Now rocking a job at Off the Wall Games!!
    ~Team Necro~

  7. #27
    Bryant Cook
    Guest

    Re: [Article] The Future of Legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by Alfred View Post
    Guys, Oath of Druids would ruin the format. I don't know why any of you would agree with it's unbanning.
    Because it would cause a metagame shift. Our format is pretty damn stagnant right now, which is why alot of people think it's boring. I'm not saying unban Oath at all, but if Oath of Druids was unbanned Gro would suck, goblins would once again become inferior, and Solidarity would have a Control deck that can race them. Do we want a metagame shift? I'm not sure, our tier structure hardly ever changes. Even in old 1.5, is this possibly one of the reasons the B/r list was changed? Will it happen again? Or they could just unban Oath and cause all hell. I'm fairly sure if wizards wants the format to quit being stagnant they'll unban Oath before another dramatic B/r list. All I'm saying is that unbanning Oath of Druids isn't completely out of the question.

  8. #28
    Member
    Bardo's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2004
    Location

    Portland, Oregon
    Posts

    3,844

    Re: [Article] The Future of Legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by wastedlife
    Our format is pretty damn stagnant right now, which is why alot of people think it's boring.
    I'd really fault the players' lack of creativity and ingenuity (not to mention, knowledge of the past) on this one, and not the card pool.

  9. #29
    V V SEXY! V V
    quicksilver's Avatar
    Join Date

    Feb 2004
    Location

    NOVA!
    Posts

    3,363

    Re: [Article] The Future of Legacy

    I am in favor of unbanning many questionable cards. And if they are too broken, ehh, so what? Not like there are any major tournements soon. Wizards can just put them back on the banned list again. If anything it will shake things up for a little bit. But I am definatly in favor of having as few as possible cards on the banned list.

  10. #30
    Bryant Cook
    Guest

    Re: [Article] The Future of Legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by Bardo View Post
    I'd really fault the players' lack of creativity and ingenuity (not to mention, knowledge of the past) on this one, and not the card pool.
    I'm not argueing against you on this but many people are quite creative, I for one am always creating decks on MWS. Just because you don't see it on an internet site doesn't mean it's not happening, which many people don't take into consideration. As for knowledge of the past, I mean it helps a little bit but it's not terribly important that little Timmy or Johnny knows about the wrath of Landstill or the few years Dragon dominated the metagame.

  11. #31
    Member
    Machinus's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2005
    Location

    Knoxville, TN
    Posts

    1,538

    Re: [Article] The Future of Legacy

    I added a little more about Replenish and Vamp in the other thread.

  12. #32
    (' ' '\( 0 ,o)/''')
    TheInfamousBearAssassin's Avatar
    Join Date

    May 2004
    Location

    Northern Virginia
    Posts

    6,627

    Re: [Article] The Future of Legacy

    If anyone is wondering, the reason that these threads invariably end in being locked is not because people disagree vehemently on cards being on or off of the banned list. It's because idiots feel the need to make posts that contain absolutely no argument besides saying that "This card is busted; it has to stay banned, duh."


    Cards are banned for being broken, and presumed innocent until proven otherwise. This is how it works in other, non-Eternal constructed formats, with a couple of exceptions like Entomb in current Extended. If you think a card is too powerful, please, cite instances of the degenerate things it would do, don't just stand there smugly with the presumption that the card would ruin the world. When Fact or Fiction, Regrowth, Lotus Petal, and Doomsday were banned, people made very similar statements about how these cards were too good for 1.5- the irony? This was at a time when Metal Worker, Worldgorger Dragon, and Oath of Druids were all legal. And the last one of those three wasn't even a blip on the radar.

    Now, another heads up for anyone that doesn't know:

    Land Tax can only grab basic lands.

    Please. Stop talking about Life from the Loam. Life from the Loam made Land Tax obsolete on so many levels. I don't know the last time that you checked a Loam deck, but most of them run 0 basics. They'd have to cut superior lands to fix their three color mana bases, which are generally a necessity to get their cycling CA engine kicking via Onslaught cycling lands, as well as providing whichever tools whichever LftL deck we're talking about is using, just to fit in the three basics to get one activation off of Land Tax running, in addition to cutting four useful cards to fit in the Land Taxes. And, as these decks are inherently mana greedy, they would have to bring a basket of muffins to use as "incentive" to convince their Goblin and Gro opponents to actually make land drops beyond 1-2. What do you do if your opponent has already eaten today?
    For my confessions, they burned me with fire/
    And found I was for endurance made

  13. #33
    Arbitrary Wielder of Justice

    Join Date

    Oct 2003
    Posts

    3,195

    Re: [Article] The Future of Legacy

    Most decks that would play Land Tax (i.e. white based control) are going to get mauled by Gro anyway. You can't play Tax against Gro, because they can just play land, Mongoose and kill you with it. Even if you do get to the point where you have land, all Gro has to do is run out guy, guy, counter your Wrath, and Armageddon.

    I do think that if Vampiric Tutor was unbanned that Cephalid Life would become a significant contender.
    When in doubt, mumble.

    When in trouble, delegate.

  14. #34
    I'm Jewish!
    TheDarkshineKnight's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2006
    Location

    Arlington, Virginia
    Posts

    433

    Re: [Article] The Future of Legacy

    Eh, uh, Machinus? Any thoughts about Metalworker or Earthcraft?
    Quote Originally Posted by Pinder View Post
    Now, how can you be sure it's rape when there's no way to tell if a barnacle is consenting or not? For all we know it was actually two first time lesbian barnacles who signed a release for the footage to be used in the newest installment of Barnacles Gone Wild: Seafoam Splash.

  15. #35

    Re: [Article] The Future of Legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by wastedlife View Post
    Because it would cause a metagame shift. Our format is pretty damn stagnant right now, which is why alot of people think it's boring.
    Q.....F.....T

  16. #36
    Banned

    Join Date

    Aug 2006
    Location

    San Diego
    Posts

    416

    Re: [Article] The Future of Legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkshineKnight View Post
    Eh, uh, Machinus? Any thoughts about Metalworker or Earthcraft?
    Earthcraft, maybe.


    Metalworker should be a permanate member of the banned list.

    Sadly I say this, as I loved playing him, and winning on turn two, even with out Workshop. Yes he is disruptable, but he is just that good.

  17. #37
    I'm Jewish!
    TheDarkshineKnight's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2006
    Location

    Arlington, Virginia
    Posts

    433

    Re: [Article] The Future of Legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by Complete_Jank View Post
    Earthcraft, maybe.


    Metalworker should be a permanate member of the banned list.

    Sadly I say this, as I loved playing him, and winning on turn two, even with out Workshop. Yes he is disruptable, but he is just that good.
    You see, my thinking with Metalworker is that since Legacy is filled with so much creature removal, that it isn't that big of a threat. Also, Meddling Mage can prevent it from ever coming into play, and Pithing Needle makes it worthless. Since all of those cards see extensive play, Metalworker shouldn't really change anything other than making Prison decks more viable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pinder View Post
    Now, how can you be sure it's rape when there's no way to tell if a barnacle is consenting or not? For all we know it was actually two first time lesbian barnacles who signed a release for the footage to be used in the newest installment of Barnacles Gone Wild: Seafoam Splash.

  18. #38
    Cobra Kai Sensie
    dontbiteitholmes's Avatar
    Join Date

    Oct 2004
    Posts

    1,721

    Re: [Article] The Future of Legacy

    Land Tax needs to be unbanned. Sorry it just sucks. Obviously Life/Loam is about 100x better being that it is basically counter/discard proof, doesn't require you to miss land drops for it to be good, and has synergy with itself what dredge and all. Land Tax only grabs basic lands (how many basic lands you trying to run hoss?), is conditional, and is a very poor topdeck in the late game. Despite Land Tax being good in old Ext. it is poor with Scroll Rack in Legacy which is a laughable combo that comes online turn 3 and doesn't win the game in any sense except exchanging basic lands for actual cards if you're lucky.

    Mind Over Matter is also a bad card that needs to come of the list. It really doesn't do anything that can't be done better without coming in the form of a 7 MANA ENCHANTMENT.

    These two cards should come off the list ASAP they should already be off. I think they should do these two then let it go to the next banning/unbanning before unbanning more since I don't trust the DCI to use logic and such properly.

    Oath of Druids should never be unbanned as long as Forbidden Orchard is legal. IBA's post seems to ignore that Orchard came out in Champions which has a lot to do with Oath not making a splash in 1.5, well that and the top 3 decks were Landstill, Dragon, and Workshop based. Also ignored are that people called Petal and Fact or Fiction broken partly because Mana Drain and Dragon were legal. Not to mention in the same period refered to by IBA Skullclamp was unbanned as well as Goblin Recruiter and neither saw play yet strangly were missing from his arguement.

    Also all the people trying to unban Metalworker will be the first to be like, "SAVE US FROM STAFF OF DOMINATION", if that were to ever happen.
    big links in sigs are obnoxious -PR

    Don't disrespect my dojo dude...

    Sweep the leg!

  19. #39
    I'm Jewish!
    TheDarkshineKnight's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2006
    Location

    Arlington, Virginia
    Posts

    433

    Re: [Article] The Future of Legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by dontbiteitholmes View Post
    Also all the people trying to unban Metalworker will be the first to be like, "SAVE US FROM STAFF OF DOMINATION", if that were to ever happen.
    And God said let there be Oxidize, Krosan Grip, Naturalize, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pinder View Post
    Now, how can you be sure it's rape when there's no way to tell if a barnacle is consenting or not? For all we know it was actually two first time lesbian barnacles who signed a release for the footage to be used in the newest installment of Barnacles Gone Wild: Seafoam Splash.

  20. #40
    Cardboard Messiah
    FakeSpam's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jan 2006
    Location

    East Syracuse, NY
    Posts

    1,153

    Re: [Article] The Future of Legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by dahcmai View Post
    The reason those are still on is because of some nasty little combos that existed back in the day that would still be impressive.
    No.
    Sexy

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)