[Article] The Future of Legacy

[dontbiteitholmes]

And God said let there be Oxidize, Krosan Grip, Naturalize, etc.

And on the second turn God dropped Trinisphere followed by Wastelands, Ports, Chalices, Winter Orbs, and Smokestacks. Then the masses flocked to Vintage and Extended.

[TheDarkshineKnight]

And on the second turn God dropped Trinisphere followed by Wastelands, Ports, Chalices, Winter Orbs, and Smokestacks. Then the masses flocked to Vintage and Extended.

And on the third turn God said let there be Shattering Spree, or something like that? You got me good on that one.

Plus, they would all flee to Extended, as Vintage has more Prison than Legacy would.

[Lego]

Plus, they would all flee to Extended, as Vintage has more Prison than Legacy would.

Pure speculation, but it's quite possible that Metalworker could make Legacy Stax better than Vintage Stax. Or at the very least relatively better.

[MattH]

I would sooner unban Mox Emerald than Vampiric Tutor.

[Lego]

unban Mox Emerald

No one would play this anyway. Green is the worst color in magic.

[Watcher487]

No one would play this anyway. Green is the worst color in magic.

Uhhhh I would.... and hopefully get 4 of them before they became about a thousand each.

[Bane of the Living]

Metal Worker is forever banned from Legacy. He cannot co-exist with Voltaic Key, and artifact lands. No way.

[Warmonger]

I agree with lots of statements included in article.
-Mind over Matter does and will do nothing.
-Dream Halls does more, but it's too slow to worry about possible build.
-The same is true for Time Spiral. It's just overkill.
-Yawgmoth's Bargain and even Mind's Desire are also crappy because of their cost - could you imagine them beeing faster than current decks?
-Land Tax gives enermous card advantage, but it's much harder to abuse than eg. Loam or Confidant. It requires very specific build of manabase and probably the only way to use these cards it are Coninement and Scroll Rack.
-Replenish doesn't seem much more dangerous than Aluren, Sneak Attack, Academy Rector - another cards winning for four mana under specified circumstances.
-Grim Monolith isn't better than already avaliable acceleration.
-Gush might be worth considering in decks like GAT, Stasis or Turboland, which are tier2 or worse.
-Unbanning Illusionary Mask will just result in new, better survival build, which haven't been seen for a long time.
-Mind Twist would hardly do anything, as it requires a lot of fast mana nobody has.

Now cards which should stay as they are:
-Entomb would be way to good with Loam, Regrowth, Witness, Welder and other powerful cards of this format.
-The same is true for Hermit Druid. Imagine this guy in Garden?! Or any other deck using graveyard? Say no! For one-card combo.

[Kadaj]

...Are you joking?

Yawgmoth's Bargain and Mind's Desire? Storm combo would break those in half before you had a chance to blink. Turn 2 Bargain? GG. Turn 3 Desire for 5+? GG

Seriously, those are two of the most broken cards ever printed, and you want to turn them loose? We'd be in a combo winter for a very long time if they unbanned either of those cards, resolving one of them essentially automatically means game over, they're just that dumb.

[Warmonger]

Yawgmoth's Bargain and Mind's Desire? Storm combo would break those in half before you had a chance to blink. Turn 2 Bargain? GG. Turn 3 Desire for 5+? GG

Combo decks already kill on turn 2-3, but those 6-mana cards would just make them inconsitent. It's not like T1, where you can drop Crypt, Vault and Mox.

[Kadaj]

No, considering Mind's Desire is uncounterable it would make them MORE consistent. Bargain would give them a late game, something combo decks aren't supposed to have, as well as a way to win off of nothing other than a lotus petal and a swamp with 2 dark rituals.

I'm not going to argue this point with you any further, due to the sheer stupidity of the idea, but I can guarantee you that Bargain and Desire are never coming off the list, and with good reason.

[Eldariel]

People talking about Hermit Druid seem to forget that it can easily exist in a deck, which dumps Anger to its grave anyways. Any sort of survival-build could pretty easily abuse it for an instant kill. Say 'no' for 3-mana 'I win's.


Anyhow, I'll be quick about this:
-Land Tax - fair game, the format has Loam and it isn't breaking anything in half, and it can at least get non-basics too.
-Mind over Matter - it could be usable, but the combo-deck that broke it is banned, so it couldn't be used as much as a combo-engine as a tool. (heh. Tool.)
-Mind Twist - 3-mana Hymn? Na, not scary.
-Imperial Seal - reprint + unban, gives the colour that's supposed to be the best in tutoring at least one decent tutor in this format. Vampiric is far too much superior to the other Mirage-tutors to be legal in this format (this has been proven time and time again, last Extended-season, Vampiric was everywhere, many toolbox decks even splashed just to have the versatility at their grasp) and Consultation and Demonic are even nuttier. Seal is about on par with the others.
-Entomb - risky, but could potentially come off. If only it said 'creature card', it'd be all good. Being able to get Loam and company, dunno. Turn 1 Akroma is definately nice.

-Metalworker - Mono-brown is good enough already, they don't need 3-mana cards that tap for 10.
-Grim Monolith - Voltaic Key called. No, but really, I don't like the idea of having Voltaic and Grim in the same format. Let Basalt Monolith enable the P. Artifact-combo, Grim is uncalled for.
-Replenish - Interesting, but it seems pretty strong with the present enchantment-pool and all the discard-outlets and enchantments that destroy themselves. I don't think it should be unbanned.
-Oath of Druids - The present format is perfectly fine, thank you very much, don't need a new one.
-Illusionary Mask - Nah.
-Bargain/Gush/Desire/Spiral/etc. - Nah.

[MattH]

Besides the obvious MoMa and Tax, I think we could stand to have Replenish around. It's pretty slow as a combo, and some neat stuff could be done with it and dredge. (Loam for Boseiju to force the YWill through?).

I think we could also allow Hermit Druid back. It's slightly stronger but WAY more fragile than Mesmeric Orb/Basalt Monolith and that deck is approximately beyond the orbit of Neptune.

I would however be wary of unbanning both Druid AND Replenish at the same time.

Grim Monolith is tempting but I'll stick to just the above for now. Get the two obvious ones out of the way, then get one more toy for fun and wait awhile to see how it plays out.

If you guys really want any hope of catching the DCI's attention, you'll focus your efforts on only the two most reasonable unbannings. Suggesting things like Mind Twist and Time Spiral is a good way to get them to never pay attention to you again, even if you're right. Present a united front advancing positions that really CANNOT be argued with, and you build a sense of trust in them - trust that you know what you're talking about. Only from there will you ever be able to ask for the more powerful broken toys.

[Warmonger]

If you guys really want any hope of catching the DCI's attention, you'll focus your efforts on only the two most reasonable unbannings. Suggesting things like Mind Twist and Time Spiral is a good way to get them to never pay attention to you again, even if you're right. Present a united front advancing positions that really CANNOT be argued with, and you build a sense of trust in them - trust that you know what you're talking about. Only from there will you ever be able to ask for the more powerful broken toys.

Of course you're right, but I don't expect many of them to read my post. It's the forum and I feel free to speak my mind, even if not many accept my words.

[cathl]

Mind Over Matter does make a neat combo with Quicksilver Dagger. I would be interested in putting such a deck together; I doubt it would be broken.

[PunkRocker1134]

I said this before by why not test these cards in decks against the upper tier. For christ sake if we show them the lists we ran and what we ran them against and the freakin results the can't deny it. Come on showing that Parfait and Land Tax WW wont rip the format open via testing results has to mean something. I tried this before and it got ignored by most of you guys. It would be a huge project and require a good bit of people but it could get cards off that list. So come on, who's in? PM me or post it here.

[Anarky87]

I said this before by why not test these cards in decks against the upper tier. For christ sake if we show them the lists we ran and what we ran them against and the freakin results the can't deny it. Come on showing that Parfait and Land Tax WW wont rip the format open via testing results has to mean something. I tried this before and it got ignored by most of you guys. It would be a huge project and require a good bit of people but it could get cards off that list. So come on, who's in? PM me or post it here.

I think this would be the best way to present our ideas as a Legacy community to the DCI. This will give players the chance to see what kind power level the cards would be playing at and put to rest the unfounded, "ZOMG LAND TAX (Or insert any card on the list) WOULD BREAK LEGACY!!111!" statements. I wouldn't really mind something coming, as I'd like to have something new to tinker with.

[TheDarkshineKnight]

Well, we don't need to test out Land Tax or Mind over Matter, simply because we've got universal consensus on those two.

[PunkRocker1134]

Still test them just to show the DCI that they aren't ridiculous of anything.

[Togit460]

post the proposed decklists that would abuse the said cards as badly as possible, then if in testing they are still fair our logic would be undeniable that they could not wreck the format. Please pm me some decklists to try out, I prefer metalworker decklists personally...