A little puzzle, would you win if it happened to you?

[quicksilver]

Ok so here is a little puzzle I made up, lets see how good legacy players really are.

Here is the set up:

Your opponent:
Has 6 islands in play (5 of them tapped), is at 1 life, has no cards in hand, has an ivory mask and an untapped morphling in play, you both know the next card on his library is a counterspell.

You:
You have 1 mountain (untapped), you are at 3 life, your hand is:
mountain, chain lightning, basking rootwalla, anger, taiga, naturalize, and mogg fanatic.


It is now your upkeep, during your upkeep your opponent taps his only untapped land to make Mophling untargetable. For your draw step you draw lightning bolt.

How do you win this game?

Here is a hint = If any card in your hand were not there, you could not win.

(Also assume your opponent plays optimally, i.e. there is nothing your opponent could do to stop you no matter how he plays from this point on)


Edit: This has been solved, so if you want to solve it, don't scroll down.

[URABAHN]

You hope your opponent doesn't make the Morphling fly and attack. You have to play a creature that can block Morphling and Naturalize the Ivory Mask before your opp. draws Counterspell. I fucking hate puzzles. God, I hope you die, Quicksilver. You and MaRo should get together in a cozy log cabin together with hot cocoa and write a gigantic Magic: the Puzzling book to be sold at fine airport bookstores everywhere.

[quicksilver]

You hope your opponent doesn't make the Morphling fly and attack.

Also assume your opponent plays optimally

edit:"Magic: the Puzzling book", if someone wrote that I would totally buy it.

[FakeSpam]

You lightning bolt yourself and win the next two games. That's how you win this "match."

Shame on you for losing to a guy playing morphling.

In all seriousness, magic puzzles should only take place over one turn. Past that, there are too many factors to consider.

[FakeSpam]

edit:"Magic: the Puzzling book", if someone wrote that I would totally buy it.

This Book?

[parallax]

I think this puzzle is broke.

Your opponent can attack for the win on his next turn and there is nothing you can do to stop it. You have no flyers and no way to remove an untargetable Morphling. You also cannot kill the opponent this turn as you don't have enough mana to kill Mask and play a burn spell.

How do you win this match?

I suggest playing better in games 2 and 3.

[Eldariel]

Eh, wait to discard Basking Rootwalla at the EoT, Madness it in, since there were effects in Clean-up step, you get priority after the untargetability has worn off. Bolt 'Pling, swing for the win next turn?

[parallax]

Eh, wait to discard Basking Rootwalla at the EoT, Madness it in, after the untargetability has worn off, Bolt 'Pling, swing for the win next turn?

Yeah, you're right.

Fucking obscure priority after clean-up step rule.

[scrumdogg]

Eh, wait to discard Basking Rootwalla at the EoT, Madness it in, since there were effects in Clean-up step, you get priority after the untargetability has worn off. Bolt 'Pling, swing for the win next turn?

You and Dave both have waaaaay too much fucking time on your hands. Good call btw....

[Drathro]

you get priority after the untargetability has worn off

This is what I thought at first, but:

{U}: Untap Morphling.
{U}: Morphling gains flying until end of turn.
{U}: Morphling can't be the target of spells or abilities this turn.
{1}: Morphling gets +1/-1 until end of turn.
{1}: Morphling gets -1/+1 until end of turn.

It says it can't be the target of spells or abilities this turn, not "until end of turn." Unless I'm reading the rules wrong, once resolved, Morphling untargetablility remains in effect essentially until the next turn begins, not the end-of-turn step.

Am I right? Wrong? Poor Oracle wording?

[Eldariel]

This is what I thought at first, but:

It says it can't be the target of spells or abilities this turn, not "until end of turn." Unless I'm reading the rules wrong, once resolved, Morphling untargetablility remains in effect essentially until the next turn begins, not the end-of-turn step.

Am I right? Wrong? Poor Oracle wording?

You're wrong. "Until end of turn" and "This turn"-effects both end at the Clean-up step and all in all, they're pretty much identical in terms of...well, everything except the wording.

[parallax]

This is what I thought at first, but:

It says it can't be the target of spells or abilities this turn, not "until end of turn." Unless I'm reading the rules wrong, once resolved, Morphling untargetablility remains in effect essentially until the next turn begins, not the end-of-turn step.

Am I right? Wrong? Poor Oracle wording?

No. There are actually two end-of-turn exploits in current Magic.

The first is the well-known "At end of turn" exploit, famous for turn Waylay into White Lightning.

The second is that if any abilities trigger or the conditions for state-based effects exist, then players get priority during the cleanup step, after "until end of turn" and "this turn" effects have worn off.

[quicksilver]

Eh, wait to discard Basking Rootwalla at the EoT, Madness it in, since there were effects in Clean-up step, you get priority after the untargetability has worn off. Bolt 'Pling, swing for the win next turn?

Oh you got it.

Here is the ruling to help you win

314. Cleanup Step

314.1. If the active player’s hand contains more cards than his or her maximum hand size (normally seven), he or she discards enough cards to reduce the hand size to that number (this game action doesn’t use the stack).

314.2. After discarding, the following actions happen simultaneously: all damage is removed from permanents and all “until end of turn” and “this turn” effects end (this game action doesn’t use the stack).

314.3. If the conditions for any state-based effects exist or if any triggered abilities are waiting to be put onto the stack, the active player gets priority and players may play spells and abilities. Once the stack is empty and all players pass, another cleanup step begins. Otherwise, no player receives priority and the step ends.

I'm impressed someone got it so quick.

This Book?

Wow, there is one, but that was written in 1996, so most of it would probably be out of date.

[Tacosnape]

Eh, wait to discard Basking Rootwalla at the EoT, Madness it in, since there were effects in Clean-up step, you get priority after the untargetability has worn off. Bolt 'Pling, swing for the win next turn?

You are the wind beneath my wings.

May I call you Sensei?

(Edit) More people might play magic if not for absurdly ridiculous shit like that.

[quicksilver]

(Edit) More people might play magic if not for absurdly ridiculous shit like that.

I play magic because of absurdly ridiculous shit like that.

[Eldariel]

You are the wind beneath my wings.

May I call you Sensei?

You may. Want a koan?

[Hoojo]

I love this stuff. It makes you a intuitive magic player. Congratulations Eldariel, you've made me a better player.

[quicksilver]

I love this stuff. It makes you a intuitive magic player. Congratulations Eldariel, you've made me a better player.

Oh what about me? Not only did I make this puzzle to entertain people, but I also made it to try to educate people on an obscure rule, that's why I posted it in the rules forum.

[Hoojo]

Oh what about me? Not only did I make this puzzle to entertain people, but I also made it to try to educate people on an obscure rule, that's why I posted it in the rules forum.

I love you too, Mr. Price.

[DeathwingZERO]

What I found funny was your little bit on "Hint- If any of these cards weren't in your hand, you cannot win." It took me about 20 seconds to figure out how to win, and another 5 minutes to realize you needed them all for the MADNESS.

That is, if you had to kill them on the next turn.