It would be nice if they killed Goyf too! =]Originally Posted by F3lix
But I agree, Hexmage aint that bad, maybe can grant some SB slots. (it also kills Gemstone Mines =p)
And I agree I'm leaning towards a more prision side of Pox. I just realized now it is leening towards Braid Stax. Guess is kind of a hybrid of both now.
Will test also 2 Braids in place of 2 Arenas, since they fulfill the same role (CA).
Won´t be removing Necroplasm, cause the deck still lacks some creature kill, and it works well as a beater also.
Random thought: now that Bloodghast has entered the deck, could Flashbag Marauder enter Shriekmaw or Smother slot? I'm not sure, but am going to do some testing even so.
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
I agree that it will see some play, but probably not in this deck. I think it will be great in some sui black build, but it has no sinergy with pox (except saccing it to destroy something when you pox/smallpox).
I agree with this. Bloodghast just seems to be what the deck needs. It come back with haste every turn, seems a perfect target to pox, even if nether is in the grave!
Wanted to know the opinion of everyone on that... is it being used?
If you fail to explain the reason behind your choice, technically, it's the wrong choice.
Zerk Thread -- Really, fun deck! ^^
Why aren't more people playing Gatekeeper of Malakir. It seems awesome here. I wish bloodghast could block. Then it would've been perfect. I still like Bloodghast though.
I like that guy who was going the prison route with the deck. Chalice seems really strong. And also, Gatekeeper of Malakir seems awesome.
I would really like for someone to put together a more creature/permanent based deck with...
3 Braids, Cabal Minion
4 Bloodghast
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Wasteland
3 Mishra's Factory
etc.
I think such a deck should also play...
4 Contamination
4 Bitterblossom
All those cards have great internal synergy with each other.
Maybe that deck could even cut Gakekeeper so it can have a manabase like other stax decks with...
4 Mox Diamond
3 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
3 Tombstalker
3 Shriekmaw
4 Powder Keg
That kind of a deck could a powerhouse, if it could be made consistent.
Black braids/stax already exists... This is the pox thread.
I had cut Chalice of the Void down to 3 in my deck. That way I could open with disruption turn 1-2, then follow up with it turn 3-4.
Its effective as a lockdown when you both get into topdeck, but not what you want if your opponent sneaks a few creatures by. THere's deffinitely a checks-and-balances.
Gatekeeper would be great in MBC or Sui Black IMO, but the fact that it can die to Pox sorta makes me shy away from it. There's always the hope that you'll get some bloodghasts/tokens out to sac, but still.. I dunno
May your suffering equal your weakness--Ihsan's Shade
HI everybody,
I was trying to improve my pox declist and i´ve done some changes i think could be very interesting so i would like to know what do you think about my list. This is A-POX:
3 Dakmor Savage
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
10 Swamp
4 scrubland
-----23 lands
// Creatures
3 Tombstalker
4 Bloodghast
3 Nihilith
-----10 creatures
// Spells
4 Mox Diamond
4 Thoughtseize
4 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Ankh of Mishra
4 Vindicate
-----28 other spells
// Sideboard
SB: 2 Innocent Blood
SB: 4 RAvenous trap
SB: 4 Engineered Plague
SB: 3 Infest
Now the explanations.
Beside of the core of the deck i´ve selected any new cards that i´m going to explain in the next few lines.
Thoughtseize: Is the best one mana discard spell, take care from everything you want and can save you from combo or PAINFUL CARDS. I was thinking about changing them with cabal therapys (because are better with bloodghast) but not know yet.
Dakmor savage: This lands is nuts in this deck, you can sac it to smallpox, or discard it with mox and recover when necessary. Beside of that usually you can dredge for more bloodghast or cards to feed tombstalker. The only problem of this land is that it comes into play tapped but .....
Nihilit: Dodges counterbalance, has evasion and a big body and comes into play fastly when you cast smallpox (3 time counters, hymn two counters,....). I think this is the decck for this creature.
Bloodghast: Comes and comes till they are removed. Good creature, i would like to have more powerfull spells that can take advantage of it´s recursion hability.
Mox diamond: They are against dark ritual. I prefer mana stability and you can discard dakmor (and recover laater if needed). BEside of that provides whiter mana for vindicate.
Ankh of mishra: The new toy, a very powerful card nowdays (lot of feches everywhere) and lot of sinergy with a deck that destroys lot of lands like this one. Opponent is taking 2 damage for each land (which is wasted or sinkholed) and 5 for each fetch (so bloodghast become very happy soon ;)). They are not bad in multiples and limit the land ccount for any apponent. Prevent us from tricking with lands and lot of decks suffer a lot under it. I think this is an understimated nice card.
Vindicate: Everybody knows what is it ;).
The only problem of the deck is that i think i need more creature removal Maindeck (but not sure about) and i don´t know what to replace and what cards must i play like creature removal (doom blade, shriekmaw, innocent blood, damnation, infest, death mark,........).
Another topic is that i thin i could splash for green too (thanks to mox diamond) in oreder to play maelstrom pulses (8vindicates are good i think) and gaining krosan grip for sideboarding.
What do you think about everything i´ve posted. Any help would be welcomed.
No fetches??
Nihilith is countered with a stifle and is a bit junk anyways, bloodghast I've found to be a bit crap, since in so many situations he's just sitting there not attacking and not blocking either, and when he's not getting stp'd hes not the fastest clock either. It would be the best card printed since goyf *if* it could block. Since it can't block, and 90% of creatures played in legacy can just block it and not die, its probably just the best black creature from zendikar. I'm sure people have their own opinions why bloodghast is good, and I'd love to hear them, I'm not doubting the potential of the card, its especially good if you are playing Cabal Therapy, but he just seems really unexciting for me so far.
// Creatures
3 Tombstalker
4 Bloodghast
3 Nihilith
-----10 creatures
Ank of mishra is crap, we aren't playing burn and even in burn.dec its not played.// Spells
4 Mox Diamond
4 Thoughtseize
4 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Ankh of Mishra
4 Vindicate
-----28 other spells
// Sideboard
SB: 2 Innocent Blood
SB: 4 RAvenous trap
SB: 4 Engineered Plague
SB: 3 Infest
Now the explanations.
Beside of the core of the deck i´ve selected any new cards that i´m going to explain in the next few lines.
Thoughtseize: Is the best one mana discard spell, take care from everything you want and can save you from combo or PAINFUL CARDS. I was thinking about changing them with cabal therapys (because are better with bloodghast) but not know yet.
Dakmor savage: This lands is nuts in this deck, you can sac it to smallpox, or discard it with mox and recover when necessary. Beside of that usually you can dredge for more bloodghast or cards to feed tombstalker. The only problem of this land is that it comes into play tapped but .....
Nihilit: Dodges counterbalance, has evasion and a big body and comes into play fastly when you cast smallpox (3 time counters, hymn two counters,....). I think this is the decck for this creature.
Bloodghast: Comes and comes till they are removed. Good creature, i would like to have more powerfull spells that can take advantage of it´s recursion hability.
Mox diamond: They are against dark ritual. I prefer mana stability and you can discard dakmor (and recover laater if needed). BEside of that provides whiter mana for vindicate.
Ankh of mishra: The new toy, a very powerful card nowdays (lot of feches everywhere) and lot of sinergy with a deck that destroys lot of lands like this one. Opponent is taking 2 damage for each land (which is wasted or sinkholed) and 5 for each fetch (so bloodghast become very happy soon ;)). They are not bad in multiples and limit the land ccount for any apponent. Prevent us from tricking with lands and lot of decks suffer a lot under it. I think this is an understimated nice card.
Vindicate: Everybody knows what is it ;).
The only problem of the deck is that i think i need more creature removal Maindeck (but not sure about) and i don´t know what to replace and what cards must i play like creature removal (doom blade, shriekmaw, innocent blood, damnation, infest, death mark,........).
Another topic is that i thin i could splash for green too (thanks to mox diamond) in oreder to play maelstrom pulses (8vindicates are good i think) and gaining krosan grip for sideboarding.
What do you think about everything i´ve posted. Any help would be welcomed.
I'm thinking the Hexmage+Depths combo is what this deck really needed to shine. A combo that can win the game in a turn once we have ripped apart their hand instead of giving them x turns to recover. Also a turn 3 win with a hand that has Hexmage, urborg and depths. We have built in hand control to make sure they can't deal with our 20/20 legend, as well as ways to recover the combo later in the game with Crucible and grave discovery.
I'm thinking Hexmage/Depths is going to be to this deck what Dreadnought/Stifle is to dreadstill.
Ha, you make me laugh. The reason dreadnought/stifle is so good, is because of the colors it plays, and its supporting cards, trinket mage/card draw/library manipulation. Throwing dark depths, and hexmage into a pox deck is complete crap. How are you going to find it? Mull into it? Goodluck, get blown out. Pox is good, because all of its cards support each other and are good on there own. You dont want to dilute the deck with 12 cards that suck on there own. Please dont compare dreadnought/stifle to hexmage/depths anymore, you sound comical.
oh Look what we got here. I forgot why I had avoided forums for so long but thanks for reminding me once again. Why are people so condescending and belligerent when behind the safety of a computer screen or steering wheel?. And with horrid spelling mistakes and grammar as well.I'll accept this provocation on grounds playing/talking magic is probably what you do best..
.
Internet flirting aside, where are 12 cards that suck on (there)their own? I admit dark depths is crap in multiples, or without the combo but we run urborgs so it can tap for black mana, Hexmage is a 2/1 for 2 mana with first strike that ruins a lot of random things:
- kills planeswalkers
- kills ravager
- resets vials
- kills gemstone mines
- resets chalice to zero
- can be sacked at anytime to remove bridge from below
- can block a 54/2 goblin piledriver or basically any goblin and live.
- hot vampire chick with cleavage art to look at.
- ect
and ... what is the third crap card you are talking about? I'm guessing grim discovery, which would be run as a 2 of at most, doesn't read "return target dark depths and hexmage to your hand oh and this card sucks" it can also read "return target wasteland and goyf to your hand" .. and it's not even part of the combo, just noticed it in Ken Adam's decklist.
PLUS. pox is not a "combo" deck, we don't need to go "turn 1, dark depths, led, lotus petal, play infernal tutor, sac led with it on the sac, get hexmage, cast hexmage, go." Just like Dreadstill is not a combo deck, its just a control deck with a built in combo.
that said, I'm not even sure how good the combo is because I haven't tested it, I'm hoping other people do and let us know if its the real deal or just a joke.
It certainly doesn't look like a joke here:
I can't remember the last time I saw Pox in top 8 of a tournament with over 140 players. I guess he was just a complete lucksack since his deck was diluted with this crap combo.SCG 5K Legacy Open - Philadelphia (147 players)
1st Brian Peters [Trinistax]
2nd James Bishop [Threshold]
3rd Matthew Bartlett [Dredge]
4th Johnathan Mosier [CounterTop Progenitus]
5th Timothy Hunt [CounterTop Goyf]
6th Cedric Phillips [Charbelcher Combo]
7th Chris Woltereck [42 Land]
8th Ken Adams [Hexmage Depths]
Adams' list has many nice sinergies inside, and I think it's strongest feature is the way it abuses of bloodghast with therapies and smallpox. It will be interesting to know how many games he won with the combo and how many with goyf / ghast / mage beatings.
However, going Bg anyway for living wish, I would try to go more "pox-style", fitting in the list some pernicious deed, some crop rotation, that can fetch depths and bring back ghast, and loam instead of crucible. I've not yet tried to assemble a list, but it would be interesting to try.
Yes it could be very interesting.
Maybe loam +syphon life +raven's crime
Fire walk with me.
Yes, the sinergy between those cards is really powerful. This is a list with wich I made 3rd out of 49 people some months ago:
creature [5]
2 Nether Spirit
3 Tombstalker
sorcery [20]
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Life from the Loam
4 Smallpox
1 Worm Harvest
1 Raven's Crime
1 Syphon Life
2 Maelstrom Pulse
instant[1]
1 Smother
enchantment [2]
2 Pernicious Deed
artifact [8]
4 Mox Diamond
2 Phyrexian Totem
2 Sensei's Divining Top
land [24]
3 Bayou
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Barren Moor
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Swamp
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Tomb of Urami
4 Wasteland
Side [15]
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Extirpate
3 Krosan Grip
3 Engeneered Palgue
2 Smother
I was thinking about fitting the combo in this kind of list. Unfortunately the list is very tight, and the combo engine will require approximately 10 slots (3 mage, 1 depths, 3 living wish, 3 crop rotation), making also the easy switch Duress <=> Therapy and Nether Spirit <=> Bloodghast, cutting also the two totems for the 3rd and 4th ghast.
For the combo slots i think we can go -1 barren moor - 1 smother -1 worm harvest - 3 stalker (keeping one in the side for wish) and maybe - 4 mox (but I'm not sure since they have proven to be really useful). Any idea?
I can't seem to find any really good and consistent BG pox lists... Can anyone indicate me a thread or something like that, i already have all the staples, but i would like to make it BG with life from the loam and access to krosan grip.
Could Sadistic Sacrament be a better sideboard option against ANT or something? Most lists I have ever seen rarely run more than 1-3 win cards with no countermagic backup.
I am playtesting a Bg version for some weeks now with mixed results. Usually U control the game for quite some time but can't do the big punsh to really end the game within a few turns after you established control. I had several games where my opponemt either could nibble away my life with 1/1 tokens or wimpy creatures (Goblins / Merfolk) or come back with sudden key card in topdeck mode (Replenish) while I was searching for a method to deal some points of damage. I am also quite undecided which creatures to play. Nether Spirit is too obvious (although he fits the deck but isn't there somethings better?), Tomb Stalker is anti-synergistic with Loam and often catches PtE or StoP, Witness/Volrath Stronghold seems to timmylike although card reuse is always nice and probably I could play 2 of both, Kitchen Finks were OK but not rocking and Bloodghast simply cannot block which sometimes is just required to stay at comfortable LP (sure it is nice to Dredge for copies of him into the grave 4 and play a land). Gigapede I liked as a finisher because of the shroud ability but it has no evasion :(. What I also like so far is Entomb which basically fetches many things like Loam, Gigapede, Raven's Crime, Stronghold, Wasteland, Cycle Land, Factory (with active Loam), any creature with active Stronghold.
Land (26)
5 Swamps
2 Barren Moor
2 Forest
1 Traquil Thicket
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volrath Stronghold
4 Bayou
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yagmoth
3 Mishra's Factory
2 Wasteland
Spells (29)
1 Raven's Crime
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Life from the Loam
4 Innocent Blood
4 Sinkhole
4 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Entomb
4 Pernicious Deed
4 Smallpox
Creatures (5)
2 Tombstalker
1 Gigapede
1 Eternal Witness
1 Kitchen Fink
SB:
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Extirpate
2 Krosan Grip
3 Engineered Plague
4 Thoughtseize
Some cards I did't like in the deck so far:
- Worm Harvest: Just doesnt produce enough tokens to be relevant especially if you Loam out lands from the graveyard.
- Tomb of Urami: I never found a good time to actually blow it
Syphon Life I still have to test but sounds interesting. However I wouldn't play Worm Hervest, Raven's Crime and Syphon life at the same time since all depend on your graveyard.
Ankh of Mishra seems odd especially with Dakmar Salvage to max Bloodghast.
I think GB "pox" would be moving closer into to a heavy black/green Loam Control build, Deathloam, or a control Rock build. You might want to check out the rock threads if you want some ideas for playing black/green.
Here are a few lists :
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=29304
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=22463
Personally I don't like to rely on graveyard synergies so much because if they bring in hate from the sb it hurts too much. I.E. makes tombstalker basically impossible to cast, bloodghast horrible, cabal therapy... ect.
Having a few graveyard tricks but not having the deck revolve around them when it does fine.
Some posts before there's a list I piloted to 3rd place in a 49 people tournament some time ago (you can find a visual version here ). I tweaked it a bit in the last months, but the core of the list is still the same.
The biggest problem of the deck has been pointed out by nekrataal: it's very good doing the control role, but lacks a reliable finisher. If you can't manage to make Tombstalker stick, you'll have a hard time winning with factories ans syphon life. In the list before I've used the totems, which are more resilient to removal, but have obviously a lot of other problems. I've yet to try bloodghast, so maybe ghast+syphon+mishra is fast enogh, but then you're really dependent on your graveyard. Leyline or simply a first turn relic can unfortunately severely cripple your strategy.
So I am still searching a non grave-dependent finisher for the deck. I think I will also try Ob Nixilis soon (the direct life loss seems great).
Here is a list I am starting to toy with
Land: 23
3 Dakmor Salvage
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Dark Depths
1 Volrath's Stronghold
15 Swamp
Creatures: 20
4 Bloodghast
4 Shriekmaw
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Tombstalker
Stuff: 17
4 Quest for the Gravelord
4 Thoughtseize/Duress
4 Snuff Out
4 Smallpox
1 Syphon Life
Thoughts?
Yeah interesting list. I am always undecided wether to integrate Mox Diamond or not. Did you like the speed boost over the 4 slots that could be 4 more business spells? Ob Nixilis doesn't sound too bad but actually not better then Tombstalker imho. Ob Nixilis lacks evasion and falls prey to the same removal than Stalker does. His ability is nice though.
Funny that you mention it because I had exactly the same thought and were looking at Aggro Loam lists what black could really offer here. The lists however are not very convincing EXCEPT one choice I have to highlight and that is Garruk. I really have to try him as a finisher. He provides a constant flow of tokens (blockers/attackers) and since we have enough removal should be save to play. His ability is also precious since there are always turns when you dredge play loam use Stronghold, play witness that can get quite mana intensive. He is not affected be any spotremoval and apart from creatures is hard to deal with. Even if you play him in th early he may provide the extra mana you need for a Deed or two removals in one turn. I really have to test that out.
This is not Pox but rather Mono B midrange aggro ...
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