[Deck] Dragon Stompy

[Phantom]

Hooligan is house in this matchup with so many key targets i.e. Mox, Chalice, Razormane, Jitte.

I wouldn't worry about this too much. Very few Goblin decks are splashing green these days (I would guess less than 10%) and we have an answer post board. Also, i've never seen a competetive build that ran both Hooligan and tinkerer.

@Eladriel: The list I was testing against maindecked StP but not disenchant. I figured that was probably the most common build. I'm concerned that we're having different results in testing. I would love to test with you sometime on MWS, but for some reason my MWS only lets me play in about 1 out of every 10 games i sign into. bleh.

[Grim]

Wow, just proxied this shit up. Amazing how good this is. Besides Pyrostatic Pillar, what's being run disruption wise? Or is it not needed because of how blisteringly fast this deck is? Nice stompy variant. Better than Sea Spirit Stompy or whatever it was.

[Dr.ugs]

We once had a list of 4 disruption cards for 2 spots. Chalice, Pillar, 3sphere, and Ankh. We did some testing and decided that Chalice and Pillar were the way to go. 3sphere is a quality card, but it really needs a deck built around it. It will force you to start replacing good cards with crappy ones like Stone Rain and Avalanche Riders and you would certainly have to fuck with the manabase to fit in Wasteland. Worth it? I think not. Also note that all of those cards are complete shit vs. Goblins.

Trinisphere is just equal to Pillar.Its good in early Game and medicore in lategame.Its as good against Combo and Control while beeing better against Aggro.Thats good enough to think about it and I am talking about Trinisphere without any Cards to support it.If you would additionaly run cards like Wasteland,Stone Rain or Riders it would even get better.Not to mention that you do have some cards which are good with Trinisphere anyway(Chalice and your Creatures)

Also you sad that all of the Cards are completly shit against goblins.But Trinisphere is a house against Goblins if they don´t have a Vial out.

Riders and Stone Rain can also get rid of their Rishadan Ports which can be really nasty because they can shut down your "double" lands.It is also usefull when you kill their White(or Green) producing lands so they arent able to cast StP for a while.The game against Goblins is a race ,in my opinion, and Riders can either deal or prevent 2 important damage and trade with a goblin.


The thing is you can use some of these Cards while making your good matchups worse but tweaking the bad ones.

[Tao]

How about Godo, Bandit Warlord? Just an idea. Lets you search a Jitte or a single SoFaI.

[Complete_Jank]

I have designed a Dragon Stompy Deck, however it ran Burning Shoal. Try that.

Also, I don't believe all your match-ups for one reason and one reason alone...You don't have card advantage.


If I missed anything and/or my comments hold no water, then forgive me, I am almost technically blind.

[Phantom]

I have designed a Dragon Stompy Deck, however it ran Burning Shoal. Try that.

Also, I don't believe all your match-ups for one reason and one reason alone...You don't have card advantage.


If I missed anything and/or my comments hold no water, then forgive me, I am almost technically blind.

Let's break this down. There is no card named Burning Shoal. I'm assuming you mean Blazing Shoal, which is just a terrible card. I'm not paying 2 cards to do a conditional 2-4 damage. I'd much rather run Char, which we don't even run.

This deck is PACKED with card advantage. FtK, Rolling earthquake, Chalice, Squee, Jitte, Smash... do I need to go on?

If you want to question my testing then fine, people used to question it over on the FS thread...until it started T8ing. I never claim my testing is gospel. Especially in this case where only two individuals have tested.


I did a little bit of testing vs. Faerie Stompy. I doubt the matchup matters, but it's a lot of fun to play. Both decks have bombs, but FS' won out in the end (going about 60/40 blue). FoW, Pro:Red, Flying, and SoFI are all big plays for blue while red counters with it's creature removal (FtK and Quake are huuuge if no pre:red) and the game clinching Chalce @3.

[Complete_Jank]

Let's break this down. There is no card named Burning Shoal. I'm assuming you mean Blazing Shoal, which is just a terrible card. I'm not paying 2 cards to do a conditional 2-4 damage. I'd much rather run Char, which we don't even run.

This deck is PACKED with card advantage. FtK, Rolling earthquake, Chalice, Squee, Jitte, Smash... do I need to go on?

If you want to question my testing then fine, people used to question it over on the FS thread...until it started T8ing. I never claim my testing is gospel. Especially in this case where only two individuals have tested.


I did a little bit of testing vs. Faerie Stompy. I doubt the matchup matters, but it's a lot of fun to play. Both decks have bombs, but FS' won out in the end (going about 60/40 blue). FoW, Pro:Red, Flying, and SoFI are all big plays for blue while red counters with it's creature removal (FtK and Quake are huuuge if no pre:red) and the game clinching Chalce @3.

Yes, forgive me, I meant Blazing Shoal, and I was just recommending it as something to try. Pitdragon likes it, and I have Covetous Dragons and other things to pitch that are 5. BTW, you do have Arc-Slogger, even if it is a one of.

Now that that has been said, don't be such a Donkey.

The card advantage you stated is all situational, which means it isn't real card advantage. You have nothing to recover against strong control.

[Phantom]

Yes, forgive me, I meant Blazing Shoal, and I was just recommending it as something to try. Pitdragon likes it, and I have Covetous Dragons and other things to pitch that are 5. BTW, you do have Arc-Slogger, even if it is a one of.

I hadn't considered it on a Dragon, where it could lead to some quick kills, but even then I think it falls into the realm of cool plays that don't come up too often. And there are way too many instant removal cards out there that turn Shoal into the dreaded 3-for-1 in their favor. Even a counter turns it into card disadvantage.

Now that that has been said, don't be such a Donkey.

The card advantage you stated is all situational, which means it isn't real card advantage. You have nothing to recover against strong control.

Sorry if I was snappish, but you were calling into question my testing results and then you made a claim that wasn't true. We DO run card advantage, even if it is situational. My question is, what ISN'T situational card advantage? Until they make a split second draw 2, I can't think of one. Not that it's a problem since most of tier 1 run conditional card advantage, and many competetive decks run little or no card advantage at all (see: Affinity, Red Death).

That being said, I can't agrue with your premise that we can't recover against strong control, but we never claimed we could:

Random Control: Mostly Unfavorable
Control matches fall under two categories. Either they scoop to Blood Moon or they beat Dragon Stompy. (Though you can also steal random draws with 14-point Rolling Earthquakes, heh). Dragon Stompy in its current form isn't ever going to have a -good- control match (Though it takes down random Rifter decks with Squee+Jitte), as it was designed to slaughter aggro, ag-con, and combo.

If you want to talk about a lack of DRAW spells, I'd be more than happy to. It's simply one of the tradeoffs you get when going from blue to red. We get better tools to fight aggro, they get draw spells and free counters. I would love it if there was a solid red draw spell for us, but I don't think it will keep this deck from being a contender.

[Complete_Jank]

I hadn't considered it on a Dragon, where it could lead to some quick kills, but even then I think it falls into the realm of cool plays that don't come up too often. And there are way too many instant removal cards out there that turn Shoal into the dreaded 3-for-1 in their favor. Even a counter turns it into card disadvantage.

I also play Dread Slag, which has the Benefit of improving with no card in hand.

Sorry if I was snappish, but you were calling into question my testing results and then you made a claim that wasn't true. We DO run card advantage, even if it is situational. My question is, what ISN'T situational card advantage? Until they make a split second draw 2, I can't think of one. Not that it's a problem since most of tier 1 run conditional card advantage, and many competetive decks run little or no card advantage at all (see: Affinity, Red Death).

That being said, I can't agrue with your premise that we can't recover against strong control, but we never claimed we could:

I understand, but how much play testing against each match up did you do? Any sideboarding? I just don't see it. On paper, it looks good, but...

I hope your deck proves to be as good as you say it is. Personally, I love Dragons and am one of the largest collectors of them and would love to play a Tier 1 deck with them.

If you want to talk about a lack of DRAW spells, I'd be more than happy to. It's simply one of the tradeoffs you get when going from blue to red. We get better tools to fight aggro, they get draw spells and free counters. I would love it if there was a solid red draw spell for us, but I don't think it will keep this deck from being a contender.

Any thought to Dragon Mage? LOL Yea many cards are situational, but I don't count my opponent having a counter as one of them. Maybe I should share my version with you. It isn't great, matter of fact it's card disadvantage at its best, but it is interesting.

[Phantom]

I understand, but how much play testing against each match up did you do? Any sideboarding? I just don't see it. On paper, it looks good, but...

I hope your deck proves to be as good as you say it is. Personally, I love Dragons and am one of the largest collectors of them and would love to play a Tier 1 deck with them.

Well, the matchups vs. Tier 1, we've tested a ton. This deck has been in the works for some time, so we've had plenty of time to test the big uns. The others are simply a compilement of our playing time with the deck in life and on MWS.

Just take it for a spin on MWS.

Any thought to Dragon Mage?

It's out of our curve. We can run 5cc at most and that spot is full up.

[Solpugid]

Sorry if this has been mentioned somewhere in the thread, or if this is just a terrible idea in general, but have you thought about drooling ogre in this thing? Replacing four mountains with 4 great furnace could support it (since you have masticore, chalice, and mox), and wouldn't really make your mana any more susceptible to wasteland (since you already run a lot of better targets).

All I can see it as is a replacement for bloodrock, just as a 3/3 for 1 mana cheaper. Thoughts?

[Bongo]

Sorry for bumping this.

This has been mad fun, props to the creators.

Like Alfred, I have found Arc-Slogger to be better than Razormane.

What's the current list? Any new additions?

[tsabo_tavoc]

Ja, mad fun! This deck beats the best, get beaten by others. It's supper against combos, simply lose to controls and 3stompies(Angel,Faerie,Zilla). More aggressive stompies have more spells @1, just mulled to CotV.
I am playing similar to the original version, besides 4 Onslaught 2/3 birds instead of 4 Cyclops(I just cannot find them in China!), 4 Pyroclasms in place of 4 Earthquakes(Earthquake get countered by Chalice@1, doesn't it?).
The deck is quite manatight and suffers huge lifeloss. Pyrostatic Pillars can only sit on Moxes besides you are facing Thresh, and High Tide. Yeah, it's nearly 40% of your matches, but I am still skeptical about it; 3sphere is good against this two matchups and many others, while being not red .
Also, this deck is interesting : http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ead.php?t=4744

[Drkdstryer]

Well I've been messing around with this deck and I've found that Blade Sliver is at least as good as the Cyclops - and it gets MUCH better if you draw another. Not only can it hold back to block if need be, there's no real difference between 2 and 3, truly.

- They both die to Bolt
- Both kill off Lackeys and unthreshed Mongeese, and trade with threshed 'Geese
- Sliver gets better in multiples
- Cyclops has a drawback, Sliver doesn't

Playing, the only difference I've seen is that Sliver trades with Bob, Meddling Mage, Goblin Warchief, and the like - and those ALL seem like good trades for you. It's the stacking of the ability that really pushes the Sliver over the Cyclops for me.

[tsabo_tavoc]

/3 allows it to avoid your own quakes/clasms, as creatures are so precious in this deck.

[outsideangel]

I used to run a red fat + disruption deck in Extended, and one card I always loved was Tangle Wire.

Basically, the whole deck is focused on keeping up the tempo. Drop fast beats and keep up the pressure. Tangle Wire is a virtual multi-turn Timewalk, especially with two-mana lands, Chalice, and equipment.

With Arc-Slogger in place of Masticore, Tangle Wire should be tested in the Squee slot, plus maybe one more if room can be found.

[Cavius The Great]

Cyclops has a drawback, Sliver doesn't

Attacking each turn isn't a significant drawback. This deck plays aggressively anyways.

[Goblin Snowman]

Attacking each turn isn't a significant drawback. This deck plays aggressively anyways.

Werebear says otherwise. Mother of Runes/Silver Knight tap him every turn (and can kill him). It lets Piledriver through. He's blocked by Troll Ascetic, Burning Tree Shamen, Mystic Enforcer, ect. If I was going to run a Three drop, and it can't be Drooling Ogre (the best choice in my opinion), I would be either Thoughtbound Primoc (depending on the Thres and Deadguy MUs, if they are bad ignore him, but he's a 2/3 for 3 that flies), Blade Sliver, Shinka Gatekeeper, or Rock Jockey. Rock Jockey is my personal favorite, but I happen to be crazy.

EDIT - Unless you cast Earthquake for 0, CotV doesn't affect it. Pyrostatic Pillar is usually better since you can do way more damage to them quickly. With this in mind, I reccommend testing the Red P. Blast, Char. It works in Faerie Stompy, and this is more aggressive. Or so I've been told.

[Cavius The Great]

Werebear says otherwise. Mother of Runes/Silver Knight tap him every turn (and can kill him). It lets Piledriver through. He's blocked by Troll Ascetic, Burning Tree Shamen, Mystic Enforcer, ect.

You're acting like this deck can't deal with the creatures you mentioned. How often to they get a Werebear with threshold by the first or second turn? Razormane Masticore and Arc-slogger can clear the way before those creatures can make even a slight impact and an early Jitte along with a Cyclops spells doom for them regardless. How often do you think you'd get a chalice for 1 before a Mom hits play? Very often I think.

[Goblin Snowman]

You're acting like this deck can't deal with the creatures you mentioned. How often to they get a Werebear with threshold by the first or second turn? Razormane Masticore and Arc-slogger can clear the way before those creatures can make even a slight impact and an early Jitte along with a Cyclops spells doom for them regardless. How often do you think you'd get a chalice for 1 before a Mom hits play? Very often I think.

About as often as you lose the roll. That's automaticly 1/2 the time, and there are times when you don't have said CotV, 2 Mana lands, ect. Razormane Nastywhore and Arc-Slogger can, if you get them out before the deck gets Threshold turn 3, they don't Counter them, Swords them, and you have the Red mana for Arc-Slogger. And early Jitte (i.e, turn one), followed by BRC means you're not Chalicing them, Pillaring them, or stopping Needle/Swords.This deck has problems with Mystic Enforecer, make no mistake.