Excellent Primer, Eric and I our good friends and constantly are discussing new ideas with different decks.
MUC is an interesting deck and if anybody likes I will write a tournament report and discuss how i handled goblins, affinity, GUW Thresh and Solidarity.
Cards in Defense
Quicksand - Though some of you really dislike the idea of loosing this to a wasteland it really can help handle aggro decks. It can kill a Piledriver, Lackey(practically any goblin), Dark Confident, Meddling Mage, Werebear(before Thresh), Hounds(Savannah and Isamaru), Soltari Priest, and Silver Knight. The card is excellent and should be vigoroulsy playtested if you are in an aggro heavy format.
Ophidian - Many say hes out of date based that he dies to Chain, Bolt, Edict, STP. On the other hand, sometimes he is very useful just to establish the board and stall a turn while you get the cards you need to win. 4th Round against GUW Thresh i had two Ophidian on the board and the card adavantage that they gave to me helped me win that round. He should be playtested before you dismiss him.
Mophling vs Meloku - Meloku is the kind of card that can drastically change the game after he resolves and you untap him. Though he still can die VERY easily to STP which is heavily run in my format area. I choose morphling because he is practically unkillable(except Edict and the new Sudden cards). He can drastically turn the game around the turn you resolve him. I feel that his description as Superman fits the terms that you play him. There has not been a game when we have played with BBS that a Morphling has resolved and we havnt won.
Brainstorm - This card is the best 1 U Blue cantrip card(that is legal in the format). Its helps pull through your deck to get the needed land drops, the access card can be shuffled away due to the Fetchlands. Omitting this card from you deck is a serious mistake. Its very valuable early gane.
Up for Discussion
Chrome Mox - This card was not considered when we were tweaking the deck before the SCG D4D. It seem very ideal in this deck, though if you are going to run it. You will probably either have to cut Impulse or Ophidian.
Arcane Labrotory - This card is an excellent card to help balance the matchup against Solidarity and IggyPop. Its an ideal card to side in and take out the Back to Basics for game two and hopefully game three.
Propoganda - The card can stabalize the board against VERY quick aggro decks. Though Most aggro decks can just pay the mana for the creatures they really need to win. I dislike this card in the Sideboard since you have other ways to handle aggro.
It all really depends on the meta of the format that you are in to dictate your choices.
Yes this is a very good idea cause many players still think that you had luck vs this decks. Lol. Show them the power of Mono-Blue!!!Originally Posted by Maximus04
I love blue and mono-blue but I would never play this kind of deck without some bounce for enchantments and strange permanents...
imho Echoing Truth is a good choice
Hi,
Interesting thread. I tinkered with MUC a while ago, and discovered the following.
- Too many counters are not that good. You need other types of answers.
- Fast aggro decks are a hard to handle, in fact the early game is critical, and you can easily be overwhelmed.
- You cannot be totally reactive as sitting there and waiting for something to counter is a losing strategy. You should be able to play threats too.
In testing, I lowered the amount of counters to 9/10, played with 3 Shackles to grab creatures, added my own creatures, on top of the kills, such as Spiketail Hatchling, Spire Golem (true, he is not that good even when played for free) or Serendib Efreet (he is more than OK I think), added Propagandas to slow down enemy hordes, and also maindecked extra solutions, namely bounces (Echoing Truth) and annoyances (Stifle, even monocolored decks play fetchlands nowadays).
Otherwise, Ophidian looks like outdated tech to me. It is a 1/3 for 3 that does nothing against any of the commonly played creatures in the game. It is slow, comes online on turn 3 or 4 (depending whether you play moxes or not) and needs to deal damage to net you a card... In a creature-ridden format, this does not look too good I say.
Aside from that I favor Force Spike over Daze as this deck, as was previously said by other posters, does not want to miss the first land drops.
Finally, 2 Psionic Blasts proved worthy too, often used to kill an annoying beater, or finish off an unsuspecting (now that it has been timeshifted, they may think about it though) opponent.
Thanks for reading this bunch of comments. Hope this helps you finetune MUC.
Honestly, I wouldn't run MUC without Rainbow Efreet, or splash white for Decree of Justice. If you don't play a completely removal immune win condition, you might as well just play stasis and go to time.
This is of course, only my oppinion. Rainbow Efreet is the nuts against so many decks now that humility is non existant and board sweepers are common.
I agree and have been playing him in Morphling's place on workstation. Efreet is so incredibly hard to kill. Morphling may be much faster, but by the time you're ready to win they can lay down tons of removal and overwhelm you. Against decks without creatures to grab control of, this is a problem.
“I was always kinda fearless in everything I did.”
I wrote this before and somehow it is away.
- Phyrexian Ironfoot is about a bazillion times better than Ophidian. Ophidian sucks. It is bad. Ironfoot can be easily supported with Snow lands. It is a great blocker wihout a drawback in the early game, it blocks away Mongeese and kills every Goblin in combat. It also survives Bolt. If you established some control and build up a Mana base he is an extremely efficient beater with Vigilance.
- Play 2-3 Repeal maindeck. Sometimes it is the perfect solution for problematic cards like Lightning Rift, Aether Vial and Pithing Needle and the other times it is an absolutely solid card without any card disadvantage.
How on earth is that an issue? It doesn't kill Morphling, it's still a 3/3 beater. By the time you establish board control, a 3/3 vanilla beater is probably all that you would need to win the game.
I'm sorry, I misspoke (typed?). Pithing Needle doesn't kill Morphling, but it makes it not so immune to everything that does kill it (Swords, Lightning Bolt, etc.). If a deck can't answer a 3/3 vanilla in Legacy, chances are it's not that viable anyway.
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That's what counters are for. If you can't counter the first Needle then counter anything targeting the Morphling. Plus it's a basically a 2 for 1 deal making your opponent lose card advantage.
Last edited by Cavius The Great; 10-22-2006 at 01:05 PM.
To me, it makes sense for the deck to stick close to the build that had far and away the most success in this format...
Monoblue Control
A Legacy deck, by Glenn Anderson
5th place at a StarCityGames Duel for Duals tournament in Roanoke, Virginia, United States on 2006-10-08
Maindeck:
Artifacts
2 Powder Keg
2 Vedalken Shackles
Creatures
2 Morphling
4 Ophidian
Enchantments
2 Back To Basics
Instants
4 Brainstorm
4 Counterspell
3 Fact Or Fiction
4 Force Of Will
3 Force Spike
3 Impulse
4 Mana Leak
Lands
15 Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Quicksand
Sideboard:
3 Chalice Of The Void
2 Pithing Needle
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Vedalken Shackles
2 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Hydroblast
2 Repeal
I could see an arguement for cutting Brainstorm and Force Spike for Chalice of the Void (to help versus combo, Thres, Red Death and a lot of other decks that have gotten very popular recently) and making up for the loss of card draw by playing an additional Impulse and Fact of Fiction
But beyond possibly...
-4 Brainstorm
-3 Force Spike
+4 Chalice of the Void
+1 Impulse
+1 Fact or Fiction
+1 Veldalken Shackles/Island/Powder Keg/Morphling
I don't think any other changes are really worth it.
Chrome Mox is nice, but it is very bad card disadvantage for an effect no where near as important as Force of Will.
But that's just my personal opinion.
Just to let you know, the list above was discussed throughly and the changes you have made was discussed as well.
Chalice is a proactive card. It is useless once that 1cc threat resolves and hit the board. the only way of preventing it is to put it down as fast as possible. That's why the mox build uses the card. In traditional build(refers to the build above, and I myself is quite the defender of the build as opposed to newer build with mox), chalice is slow and not dependable. Force Spike in the deck is a way of dealing with early threat, along with FoW. If you want to give the same role to the chalice, then you need to play the chalice as soon as possible.
Some people already went through this, but 4th FoF is very suboptimal. you have it stuck in your hand way to much. being able to tab 4 mana is not something that happens often. FoF is amazing, but we have to play fair(read: no Mana Drain) and tap 4 lands for it. 4th copy is win more card in the late game and does not really help you going through the late game.
if you're going to stick with the trad. build, chalice should stay in the sideboard. Chaice = Mox in MUC.
She said, "You're broken."
"So is your face." replied the Tarmogoyf.
I had a plan with this prototype but my original didn't quite work due to budget cuts, so when I do find the funding I might end up building this plan if the format doesn't shift drastically yet.....
8 Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
4 Lonely Sandbar
4 Quicksilver Dragon
4 Spire Golem
2 Vesuvan Shapeshifter
4 Spellsnare
4 Stifle
4 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Serum Visions
4 Daze
2 Shackles
SB
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Pithing Neddle
2 Spell Snare
2 Echoing Truth
3 Is. Scepter
....I have not much of a clue of how the deck will fair against the field but with everyone's ideas we could put this on the top of the standings one of these days or perhaps make it a premier.
@ mercenarybdu
basically you have just posted a decklist that looks totally different to anything that has been posted previously. The decks that have been listed contain cards that have been discussed (at length, even with things that would normally seem obvious like 4x brainstorm, have been talked over), have been tested and have been fiddled with in terms of numbers of those particular cards.
You can't just post a list with a radically different layout and ask for us to contribute and make it a deck that will win you tournaments. For that you should really be posting in the new and developmental forum.
If you would like to have a MUC deck that will fair well against the field, might i suggest you take a look at what has been put together by peope who have posted before you.
Don't get me wrong. There is nothing wrong with innovation - but you should explain why you feel that spire golem or quicksilver dragon deserve a place in the list.
here are some questions about your list which should really have been addressed by you in your post:
what is quicksilver dragon doing in there? has he proven to be invalueable in certain matches?
same question applies to spire golem ^^
the lack of card draw would seem to be a problem... am i wrong?
low land count, even if you were going to play the lonely sandbars as lands - MUC and dedicated control lists in general run large numbers of land.
your list does not include any board sweepers like engineered explosives or powder keg - how do you not lose to aggro?
has the tempo loss caused by daze not caused you a great deal of problems?
Your manabase looks like a mess especially since your playing an one color deck. You technically do not really need cycling lands with all of the utility spells blue has to offer in the draw mechanic department. Cycling lands prevents you from consistently capitalizing on the usage of shackles while not running back to basics is a big mistake as well.
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