[Deck] TES (The EPIC Storm)

[Kronicler]

I think eldariel is advocating for city of solitude over defence grid, not over xantid swarm.

Wasted: I agree with you about the power of xantid swarm, but in order to optimize brainstorm's usefulness I think we need to be able to use fetches and duals in our mana base.

I also think you underestimate the power of duress. Against our bad matchups all we really have to do is take out their FOW and then we win. If they have something else ontop of FOW like another FOW or a daze or a stifle etc. then they would have just FOWed the Xantid and then used their other card to trip us up. If xantid resolves then we win, but the only time that will happen is if they don't have a counter therefore it doesn't matter. If xantid is countered then it functions exactly like duress by removing 1 of the counters in their hand.

The only time xantid is better than duress is if they topdeck a counter after we duress them. I think this possibility is far outweighed by duresses color and greater usefulness in more matches. Because it is black not only is it better with chrome mox but you can duress them mid combo right before you tutor. Bet they won't see that comming :-). I haven't tested it yet so I can't say this with 100% certainty but, after thinking about it a lot I'm of the opinion that duress is a better choice.

In terms of chrome mox I don't think they give the deck its speed. They do help sometimes, but they hurt a lot more than they help when you get 2 in a hand. Because of this I think that taking them down to 3 won't hurt the deck at all, and as that spot is taken by a fetch land it could really help the deck with greater consistency in finding land yet decreasing the chance of drawing into land with your Bstorm / Dreturns.

Kronicler

[zorrikon]

Duress is also much more relevant in the BW Confidant (or any disruption based deck) and combo match-up. Not playing any creatures MD can also be an advantage in many match-ups. I'm not sure which is better, though, Cabal Therapy or Duress. If you're playing Trinket Mage (which I'm still not convinced is bad-- the deck has a certain dependency on Lion's Eye Diamond), then Cabal Therapy is probably better. I've been playing 2 of each, and it has worked out better than Swarm so far.

[Bryant Cook]

All we have to do is take thier force? This is why alot of Iggy list don't play Duress anymore. It comes back with Ill-Gotten Gains or if they draw a force off of Diminishing Returns. Have you ever heard of card disadvantage? Force removes an additional card, where duress only takes one. If they counter Xantid they still have other counters? Is that your arguement? If so how is that any different than Duress? I personally wouldn't want to wait until mid- combo to find out if I am going to win, I want a gauranteed win.

I could see a Chrome Mox being cut for a land, but I personally like 4x Chrome mox.

[Eldariel]

Why would you run City of Solitude at 2G, when you can run a 1 sided City of Solitude at G?

Indeed, I meant, as he was brainstorming for Defense Grid, I'd imagine Citys would make for better Swarms 5-6 than Grids. Then again, I can see the manacost being prohibitive.

[Alfred]

Brainstorm optimization versus Xantid Swarm is an interesting debate. Xantid Swarm is great against Solidarity, but not so much against Thresh, basically because you make their otherwise dead creature removal useful.

Wastedlife makes a great point though, as IGG and Diminishing Returns make Force of Will an issue, even when Duressed away. Those are two of the most powerful cards in the deck, and they become liabilities unless Xantid Swarm is involved.

Brainstorm is obviously a card that this deck wants to abuse, because it's the best hand optimization card in Legacy at the moment, and becomes almost broken when paired with fetchlands.

I'll have to do a bit of testing myself on the issue, but I think I'm leaning towards something more like Kron's list right now.

[Kronicler]

Arg... I forgot about IGG recuring FOWs and the such. Meh, I dunno, I love xantid and brainstorm but I think 1 of them has to go in order for us to use a better mana base. If we keep xantid maybe we switch brainstorm for night's whisper? I love brainstorm though. I really need to test out the lists before I keep posting, lol.

[Bryant Cook]

Why does Brainstorm without fetchlands matter if you are winning turns 1-2? Also City of Solitude costs too much for protection.

[Alfred]

Why does Brainstorm without fetchlands matter if you are winning turns 1-2? Also City of Solitude costs too much for protection.

From my calculations, this deck wins on turn 3 almost half the time.

[Bryant Cook]

From my calculations, this deck wins on turn 3 almost half the time.

You are playing it wrong.

[Kronicler]

I think that turn 2 is the most common combo turn and turn 3 is slightly more common than turn 1.

The reason you want fetches to use with your brainstorm is if you don't hit what you need to combo then you have to wait 2 more turns before you even draw a new card.

Kronicler

[Bryant Cook]

I think that turn 2 is the most common combo turn and turn 3 is slightly more common than turn 1.

The reason you want fetches to use with your brainstorm is if you don't hit what you need to combo then you have to wait 2 more turns before you even draw a new card.

Kronicler

I'm aware of this, after all I'm not mentally challenged. However the threat density of TES is very high and more than likely you'll find something to help or a Tutor. Which is why I believe this deck doesn't need shuffling effects. I'm perfectly happy with 5c lands, and I refuse to cut Xantid Swarm for a sub-optimal card just so I can shuffle my deck.

[Kronicler]

Woah, my post was not an attack on you or your level of intelligence. The fact that I'm playing this deck is a testament to how smart I think you are.

Kronicler

[Bryant Cook]

Lands
4 City of Brass
3 Gemstone Mine
2 Cabal Pit
1 Forbidden Orchard

Creatures
3 Xantid Swarm

Spells
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
4 Burning Wish
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Plunge into Darkness
1 Grapeshot
1 Diminishing Returns
4 Rite of Flame
1 Empty the Warrens
4 Brainstorm
2 Defense Grid

Sideboard
SB: 1 Ill-Gotten Gains
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Diminishing Returns
SB: 2 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Defense Grid
SB: 3 Shattering Spree
SB: 1 Cabal Therapy
SB: 1 Cave-In
SB: 1 Tranquility
SB: 2 Compost

You'll notice some changes such as the removal of Seething Song, I'd rather have added protection than a random 1x of Seething Song. The sideboard has changed alot since the last list, Compost was added to make the deck all around better. Now that the control match-up is 50% or higher, I wanted to improve on the one other bad match-up Hate(sui-black variants). Another option is Spiritual focus but it's a little bit more narrow.

[Bane of the Living]

Have you taken this to any tournaments besides the mana clash? Id like to see some actual results to back up the deck. It would be a shame to see another tendrils deck slip away due to lack of interest and results.

[Bryant Cook]

I have to work on Sundays which is the day our store has the pathetic 8 person Legacy events. So no; I haven't played it since then, but I plan on playing it at Geneseo and GP Columbus.

[Citrus-God]

I like the Defense Grids in here, but I liked the fact I can pitch extra Swarms to Mox. The additions of Composts are really nice against Black based Tempo decks. I like the Brainstorms, as 2nd turn wins are tech.

Seeing as Wastedlife is busy right now, he wont be able to attend tournaments. Luckily, MWS exists, as well as good players with AIM. So Wastedlife does all his playtesting by MWS, but with good players as well.

[b4r0n]

With 3 Empty the Warrens between the maindeck and the sideboard, do you think it might be better to run a different land over Forbidden Orchard? It seems that something like Tendo Ice Bridge, Undiscovered Paradise, or even a dual might be a better choice as a singleton, as none of those interfere with one of your potential win conditions.

A couple general questions on how you play the deck:

1) How much life do you typically spend on a Plunge? How much does this depend on the matchup, and how much do you spend when goldfishing?
2) What do you find yourself Wishing for most often? Similarly, which win condition do you find that you're using the most?
3) How aggressively do you typically have to mulligan?

[Citrus-God]

Well... heres the thing.... you cant ever use Tendo-Ice Bridge or Undiscovered Paradise, as you want to slowplay against Control, such as Thresh. What you want is a strong midgame, then you combo off. Running Tendo-Ice Bridge will stop you from optimizing further more, as you want Brainstorms, Burning Wish, Plunges, and Infernal Tutors to be played when your not in the process of comboing off.

And to answer your questions:

1. Depends what I play against. Against a deck like Burn, I dont want to spend a low, maybe around 3-6. Versus Goblins/Affinity, you have to analyze your hand how fast you can win the next turn, which helps you judge the amount of life you have to spend. A deck like Thresh is maybe 4 or 5 for me. Opposing Combo decks is going to be a huge sum usually, as I want to win before they do.

2. Tendrils of Agony, but if I cant budget the mana anymore in increasing the Storm count, I wish for Empty the Warrens. Grapeshot is also a good option if you use your black mana on mana recursions, and all you have left is Red. I do this quite often as well. Also, another time, my Tendrils cant reach all the way to that 20 mark, and I had 4 mana left and a Tutor/Wish, which I used to grab a Grapeshot for reach.

3. With the addition of Brainstorms, I has less mana problems, so I dont mulligan as much, and around 75%-85% that your Brainstorm will ensure you a 2nd turn kill if you played Brainstorm turn 1.

[Citrus-God]

So I had a thing at school.... it's truancy.... I dont skip classes really, it's just that I wake up late a lot... around 30 min-1 hour. I had to have a parent look at my record, and was scolded at by my butch lesbian mother who divorced my dad because she tends to e more manly than him. Because this happened, I had a ride, how great was that!

So I walked him, and paid my five. I was sitting there singing "You Cant Always Get What You Want" excessively. People there hate me, and hardly know me, so what else can I say.

Also, heres my list


// Lands 10
4 City of Brass
3 Gemstone Mine
3 Forbidden Orcahrd


// Protection 5
3 Xantid Swarm
2 Defens Grid


// Spells 45
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Burning Wish
3 Infernal Tutor
1 Death Wish
4 Plunge into Darkness
4 Brainstorm
4 Rite of Flame
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
1 Diminishing Returns
2 Empty the Warrens
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Ill-Gotten Gains


// Sideboard 15
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Cave-In
1 Diminishing Returns
1 Infernal Tutor
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
2 Chain of Vapor
2 Empty the Warrens
3 Compost
3 Shattering Spree


No Therapies in the SB sadly. I dont run Grapeshot, as I love ETW much more. I crashed into a lot of Meddling Mages... but Angel Stompy is a slowass deck. RG Beatz and The Rock were byes for me. Random shit Round 1 is a sweet ass start.


Round 1: UG Madness

This guy is new... no Wastelands, no Dazes, and no FoW! Mana Leak is not hard for me to handle, and he cant Madness on my turn because of Defense Grid.

Game 1: I was on the play

I had a hand of

Xantid Swarm
Dark Ritual
Chrome Mox
Lion's Eye Diamond
Cabal Ritual
and 2 Tutors I think.

I can do this. I played Brainstorm after he played Island. Turn 2, I went Xantid Swarm, and I knew he was safe. He played Mongrel, so I comboed out Turn 3.

Game 2:

He kept, I had to mull as I had 3 Moxes in my opening hand.

He went 1st Turn Rootwalla. I drew a fucking god hand of 3 Rite of Flames, 2 Petals, Empty the Warrens, and 1 Dark Rit. So I made a fuckton of tokens, and he died 2 turns after I comboed.


2-0 SWEET!


I walked around and bought some cards... like crappy uncommons, like Hail Storms and a huge pile of Hydroblasts, and a stack of Portents. I found a couple miscut Hydroblasts!


Round 2: UW Angel Stompy

I was on the play. I kept a hand with Brainstorms, Defense Grid, 2 lands, and more stuff like a LED and D. Returns. I was about to BS away. He went 1st turn Strand. I went EOT BS, -> Defense Grid. He played a Mage, and thought for a bit. I told him to play it on Tendrils of Agony, and he said I'm a dumbass for trying to throw him off. He called Burning Wish, and passed the turn.
Then I came in with a fuckton of mana, Deminishing Returns (didnt find a tutor), got like 3 Burning Wishes and no other tutors... I was fucked. I shouldn't have played it impulsively.

Game 2 I went killed him 1st turn with 2 Ritual, Infernal Tutor, Land, and 2 LED as my opening hand. God I'm a fucking lucky.

Game 3 I mulled down to 4 because my deck mana flooded me with Chrome Moxes, or I didnt get lands/Mox/petals and a fuckton of Ritual effects. That fucker beats me down with 2 fucking lions.... how humiliating.


No way for me to get 1st place now.... 1-1. Fucking Angel Stompy, and those ****** stuffed animals (Lions), Fairies (Efreet), and Angels. I mean, that is just gay... and Stifles too.


I was buying cards from people because the store decides to jack up prices on shit like SoFI. I bought them for $6 a piece. Take that fuckers! Anyways, all I need now are some German/French... the art isnt shit. I bought some Dr. Pepper, and made sure I looked original... goddamn, I look gay, and being gay isnt original, but I looked good anyways. Take that you sucky college students, and your windshield breaking habits! I was cocky today... I'm usually not that cocky, but it happened. Anyways, parings were up, and yes, I was so fucking ready.


Round 3: The Rock

Game 1, I kept a semi-decent hand on the Draw, with a good amount of mana, a Infernal Tutor, and a Burning Wish. He played a 1st turn Duress and stole a Wish. I topdecked an LED... I was so happy at that point. My hand was like

LED
LED
Infernal Tutor
City of Brass
Dark Ritual
Cabal Ritual


I had to go off. I went off, IGG like 3 times with 2 LED and the same fucking Infernal Tutor.


Game 2:

My first Plunge of the day... Finally. He mulled like 3 times. He went 1st turn Birds. I played a land, go. He played Troll Ascetic. I played land, Compost, go. He played a Therapy and Saced wall. I lost my plunge and a Dark Rit in the process. I later built my hand back up after like 3 turns of Troll beatz. he played a Duress and recurred it with Witness. He said he wished he left deeds in there, since it can kill off that Compost. I drew enough cards, and I went off with Infernal Tutor ->, D. Returns, crack LED, and I won with ETW since he told me he had no Deeds in the Board.

2-1. I need one more win, and I get a shitty pack.

Round 4: Vial Goblins:

Game 1: I know this guy, and he plays Goblins a lot. He knows I played Thresh, so he went 1st turn Lackey. I had a busted hand. I went Mox, Land, go. he hit me with Lackey, and dropped Warcheif, then a Matron for Piledriver. I went EOT Plunge and grabbed myself an LED. Like a champ, I topdecked a Dark Ritual, and I went all out with Diminishing Returns.

Game 2: He got Pillers and REB to counter my Returns and Brainstorms... fucker.

Game 3: I got sexy 1st turn win. I had like

1 LED
3 Rite of Flames
1 Burning Wish
1 Orchard
1 Lotus Petal


That can do a lot of damage right? So I played out my whole hand, played Burning Wish, cracked LED while it was on the stack BBBRRRRR, grabbed Infernal Tutor, and played Tutor BBRRR, grabbed IGG, crack petal BRR. Recur Rite of Flame, LED, and Infernal Tutor. Played Rite BRRRR, played Tutor, and cracked LED. I had Tendrils for 20 exactly.


I came back home dissapointed with a fucking pack... but that was my first tournament with TES. I am happy to say I like the deck, but I wish there was
more control. That mistake I made against Angel Stompy was crap. I knew I could've done better, but I was friggin' tired. Gawd I need some actual sleep.

[Bryant Cook]

Great report! You made a few mistakes but atleast you recognized them. I like the fact that you know and understand the power of Returns its sooo good. I'm currently writing a painfully long article on TES, not sure if I want it in the primer board here or to SCG. What do you think?