[Deck] TES (The EPIC Storm)

[Citrus-God]

Yeah.. that game against Angel Stompy was hell for me. I was way too impulsive. *sigh.

Anyways, I love this deck, it's so fucking explosive. I need to judge my 1st turn kills hands much better.

[BiscuitVader]

How have you guys been doing in your Threshold matchups?
The addition of Grid in the maindeck has helped me, but the lack of Therapy lets then FoW/Daze.

[kicks_422]

I run an almost similar list to Anti-American, with some few tweaks.

-1 Forbidden Orchard
+1 Gemstone Mine
+2 Cabal Pit

-3 Xantid Swarm
-2 Defense Grid
+4 Duress
+1 Infernal Tutor

-4 Plunge into Darkness
+4 Spoils of the Vault

-1 Empty the Warrens
+1 Tendrils of Agony

And my SB looks like this:

1 Grapeshot
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Diminishing Returns
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Cave-In
4 Xantid Swarm
4 Shattering Spree

The Grids and Swarms were sometimes irrelevant, while Duress at least lets you peek at their hand to judge how much work you need to do. I can board in the Swarms if I'm going against countermagic.

I went with Spoils instead of Plunge because I'll be sure that I'll be getting what I want. I'm tired of Plunging for 10 and seeing nothing but mana and lands when I need a tutor/wish or vice-versa. Sure, it sometimes kills me, but when you're playing Storm combo in Legacy, speed is such a major factor. I'd rather Spoils for LED Turn 1 EOT and have a remote chance of killing myself than set-up with Plunge at Turn 2 EOT.

@BiscuitVader:
Honestly, I've never had too much trouble with Thresh. They need 3 Mages to actually come remotely close to shutting you off (Wish, Tendrils, ETW), but even then, Death Wish and Cabal Pits can get rid of them. They also absolutely need a FoW in hand to match up against you, which can be taken care of by Duress, and once you test on the match-up more, you'll learn how to play around Daze.

Winning on Turn 2 regularly is no joke. This deck could really become a contender if more people pick it up.

[Bryant Cook]

My Threshold match-ups are generally anywhere from 45% to 55% depending on the player. I'd consider the average threshold player about 50%. Main deck Defense grid is amazing! If they would've forced a Therapy or Dazed it's basically an equivalent; Even if they do force or dazed it you therapied for 1 more at a change to win the game.

EDIT:: I just read Kick's post, I disagree with you on Spoils of the Vault completelty. Maybe after the article/primer comes out you'll understand it more often since theres a part on playing Plunge correctly. Other wise I agree with you, I've never not found what I want off a Plunge for 10. You can't Plunge looking for specifics, Plunging looking for a LED can sometimes gruesome when not found but a Thresh'd Cabal Ritual does the same thing. That's what you need to be thinking when you cast it.

Finally; someone agrees with me winning on turn 2 isn't a lie, this deck is incredibly consistant and explosive.

[Citrus-God]

Problem is that this deck takes a ton of skill. That's where the stupid Solidarity thing comes up, as a lot of people might not be able to play right at all.

Also, Xantid Swarm it so sexy. People literally send their Counters to the bottom of their Library with Serum Visions looking for Swords. That is one thing I love seeing like everytime I sit across from Thresh. I might consider cutting my Death Wish for my 4th Xantid Swarm.

[Bryant Cook]

I'm currently in a delimma; I can't decided between 2 Tendrils of Agony and 1 Empty the Warrens or 2 Empty the Warrens and 1 Tendrils. What do you think? Both have thier advantages but lately I've been deciding on which option and can't decided between the two, believe it or not it makes a huge difference.

[Citrus-God]

you only need 1 ToA, as multiples clog your hand, whereas EtW, allows you still win after an Aggro-Control deck tries and pressure you into going off early. ToA is good, but also quite demanding in terms of conditions. I would vote for 2 EtW, and 1 ToA.

[BiscuitVader]

I would say two IGG. I have been running two, and they have been working great.

It makes going off via Tendrils so much easier.

[Bryant Cook]

I would say two IGG. I have been running two, and they have been working great.

It makes going off via Tendrils so much easier.

How so? Really, after you cast the first one you'll have a high enough storm count to kill anyways. What would a second accomplish that isn't already there.

[BiscuitVader]

How so? Really, after you cast the first one you'll have a high enough storm count to kill anyways. What would a second accomplish that isn't already there.

It lets you draw the one you need to get your Storm Count high enough to kill with Tendrils easier.

Test it, it has been working wonders for me... But, I guess the spot really comes down to meta and play style (Sharpshooter kills EtW, so I like Tendril kills best against the group I play with).

[emidln]

If you can tutor up both on demand, then the 3rd is marginally useful in these situations:

You draw the 2nd copy randomly. If you have 9 storm then Tendrils is obv better. If you don't, ETW would be better.

You have 10 mana and tendrils + tutor. Tendrils is a lot better here since you can go double Tendrils.

You need a specific color mana off Chrome Mox. This normally happens with black for me, but could be red. This would require some analysis. Whichever color you need more may be the way to lean.

It seems that double tendrils and a need for black mana would push me into the 2nd Tendrils, especially since ETW is not a sure kill.

[rsaunder]

If you can tutor up both on demand, then the 3rd is marginally useful in these situations:

You draw the 2nd copy randomly. If you have 9 storm then Tendrils is obv better. If you don't, ETW would be better.

You have 10 mana and tendrils + tutor. Tendrils is a lot better here since you can go double Tendrils.

You need a specific color mana off Chrome Mox. This normally happens with black for me, but could be red. This would require some analysis. Whichever color you need more may be the way to lean.

It seems that double tendrils and a need for black mana would push me into the 2nd Tendrils, especially since ETW is not a sure kill.

I'll second that motion. I've found that going for a double tendrils kill against control with any combo deck like this is never a bad idea. Especially since ETW can still have an extra copy in the SB for thresh.

The one option I don't like is the extra IGG MB. I always hate drawing my ONE copy, and will toss it away with a brainstorm if I can. I can't imagine having to do that twice as often.

[Bryant Cook]

I did some testing against Emildn last night with TES against several decks(RGB control, UGW Thresh, URW control, SI, Deadguy, and Iggy Pop) after all the dust had cleared I was 18-5 against him (Losing to UWR control once, a Fizzel, and Deadguy 3 times). 8 of those games had been turn one kills, and a few of them were because of the additional Tendrils of Agony maindeck. Most of those games I had used Diminishing Returns to win on turn one without Returns this deck is a lot slower and inconsistent so anyone who cut returns should give it another shot. I think I casted Gains maybe 5 times last night and that was it the rest was Diminishing Returns for the win.

Lately, I've been considering adding a few land to the deck but last minute always go against it. I'm wondering how Kronicler is doing with only 3 Chrome Mox and an additional land. If you don't mind could you post on it? I've been considering it. The only downfall to it is its worse with Diminishing Returns and Infernal Tutor.

[rsaunder]

So What exactly was your list, just for reference purpouses. I haven't really played the deck too much since the inclusion of Death Wish, and am just wondering if there's a new master list.

Those results are enough to make me want to pick it up again

[kicks_422]

I'm currently trying out no Diminishing Returns. Getting more juice to run up storm is great and all, but it doesn't really help in bad match-ups. Giving your opponent another 7 cards is too much of a liability when they're playing with counters.

I'm also trying out 4 Duress and 3 Swarms MD for more protection. I've found Duress to be golden, not just nabbing counters/Stifles but also opposing Duresses. I've also cut down to 1 each of Tendrils and ETW, to see hwo it goes.

Having the Duress and Swarms MD frees up the SB. Along with the 4th Swarm and 4 Shattering Sprees, there's lots of room for Wish targets.

[Citrus-God]

In a deck like this, you would much rather have Xantid Swarm and Defense Grid. Why?

1. It makes both Diminishing Returns and Ill Gotten Gains much more broken.
2. It forces your opponents to answer it now! This could force your opponent into a lot of unintentional mistakes, can leave you in a very favorable position.
3. It swings games around in the Control v.s. Combo match-up.

[Bryant Cook]

I completely disagree with cutting Diminishing Returns it is by far the strongest card in the deck. It's no only there to help you up storm count, against control with Xantid's and Defense Grids it helps you rebuild your hand after a previous fizzle(believe it or not control can make you fizzle). Against discard it wins you the game, and lastly against aggro it gives you the added boost of guaranteeing you're faster than them.

Duress isn't right for the deck, it doesn't make Ill-Gotten Gains or Diminishing Returns better and only temporarily stops the threats because they'll be back(Ill-Gotten Gains) if you don't use gains or returns you probably won't be winning early. This just makes you weaker in the match-ups you would need Duress in because they can build up their hand.
I too have been thinking about options and 1 - 1 was one of them I'm glad to see people are also thinking of possible solutions.
What other Burning Wish targets do we need?

Saturday I went to my local card shop to test The EPIC Storm like I do every Saturday because I get out of work while Magic events are still happening. (Legacy happens on Sundays when I'm working...) So our tournament organizer Nate walks over and asks if we would like to have a Legacy event. Of course The EPIC Syndicate was there to get this going, so before round 1 people are looking for storm combo hate, I wonder why? There were only 10 or 12 of us testing Legacy and a few left early so it was a fun 10 man. Round one begins.
The List
Lands
4 City of Brass
3 Gemstone Mine
2 Cabal Pit
1 Forbidden Orchard

Creatures
3 Xantid Swarm

Spells
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
4 Burning Wish
2 Tendrils of Agony
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Plunge into Darkness
1 Diminishing Returns
4 Rite of Flame
1 Empty the Warrens
4 Brainstorm
2 Defense Grid

Sideboard
SB: 1 Ill-Gotten Gains
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Diminishing Returns
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Cabal Therapy
SB: 1 Tranquility
SB: 1 Pyroclasm
SB: 1 Defense Grid
SB: 3 Shattering Spree
SB: 3 Compost

Round 1- Rob Matthews with W/G aggro.

Game 1: I keep a weak opening hand, he plays hound of 2/2ness and repetitively throws stuff on it until I'm at 0. Wow not the way I wanted to start out. F
Game 2: I shuffle profusely and angrily then present my deck; my turn one consisted of creating 14 goblins, go.
Game 3: I kept a hand of LED, Petal, Dark ritual, City of Brass, Infernal, Brainstorm, and Rite of Flame. Needless to say he was dead before he got to play his flagstones turn 1.
1-0
2-1

Round 2- Scott Burch with mono red Vial goblins.

Game 1: I casted Plunge on his end step turn 1; turn 2 killed with Ill-gotten gains.
Game 2: I keep a hand of Dark ritual, Plunge, cabal Ritual, IGG, City of Brass, Led and Tendrils. I kept because of its potential awesomeness, I waited until turn 3 to draw my second mana source (Lotus Petal) at that point I played my City of Brass and won.

2-0
4-1

Round 3- John Lacasse (Mulletus) with RGSA
Game 1: I mull to 5 and keep a blah hand, and slowly lose until my last turn possible
I’m at 3 I rip Plunge but have to tap city to cast it. In response goes the LED and Ritual, I do it for one nabbing Burning Wish-> death nothing saves me and if I get Warrens I mana burn to death.
Game 2: I keep a City, LED, Tendrils, Tendrils, Cabal Ritual, and Plunge hand. Yes, that’s right another mulligan; I kept this hand because he had said he SB’d in pyrostatic Pillar. My turn 1 was LED go because I know he plays Chalice. He plays turn 1 Chalice 0, then turn 2 Pillar. I continued to not draw mana sources.

2-1
4-3

Round 4– Colin Chilbert (Diablos) with ATS(GRBU)
Game 1: I Mull AGAIN! At this point I’m furious I keep an opening hand of Led, Mox, Xantid, Defense Grid, and City of Brass. Colin Turn 1 Therapied me naming Infernal, I reveal, then draw a Xantid for my turn. I drop my hand and pass, Turns out he opened 3 Therapy. We play Draw go for awhile, he drops masticore beats me to 16 then plays a witness therapies me and flashes it back naming Returns, I’m cardless. I draw IGG and pass next turn I drew a land and won off of Returns.
Game 2: Colin sided in 3-4 Duress and 4 Mesmiric fiend, He turn 1 duresses me nailing Brainstorm leaving me with LED, 2x Dark Ritual, Rite of Flame, Lotus Petal, and Forbidden Orchard. I drew for the turn and did a lot of thinking said “How big are my balls?” I turn 1 LED, 2x Ritual, Crack petal for Rite and cast IGG in resp crack LED for RRR. I get back Petal, B-storm Dark ritual and Brainstorm into(In order) Cabal Ritual, Infernal Tutor, and Tendrils of Agony. GG!

3-1
6-3
Because it was 9 we decided to split top 4. So, I’m sorry I can’t Deliver anymore.

[tsabo_tavoc]

Congrats on the top4 finish!

I am really stunned by the 13/18 games winning by Diminishing Returns, only 1 Fizzles. 8/23 games trun 1 kills almost same as 40% percentage of LED in opening hand! I used to deem Returns as a resort under graveyard hates, now it becomes the golden card! Returns need 2(B/R) and 1 LED to accomplish a turn 1 kill, while Gains 2(B/R)B(B/Ritual) and 1 LED: I am convinced.

Duress: It's faster than Compost, and what's more, it can duress out Chalices, 3spheres, and Counters/Stifles! On the Counters/Stifles point, IGGed back your Duress to take out their sole answer, and LED, Tutor to win! However, you may feel unsafe with Duress rather than Swarms to win with Diminishing Returns. But in my mind, Returns are only turn 1-2 kills must, later games should resort to Gains.

Lastly, I put 1 Infernal Tutor in SB to Wish them in my IGG plan.

I want to hear more about your Returns plan, and will practice it a lot.

[MattH]

Well, the successful reports given here have rekindled my passionate love of storm combo. I am interested in putting up another set of 100% fully-logged goldfishes as I did here. This time I am looking for a post-Brainstorm decklist to try out. Can I get a suggested list?

As far as the Tendrils/ETW splits, I would favor 2 Tendrils 1 ETW, because the times when you need to double-up on your kill cards are when you can only get 4-5 storm, and in those cases Tendrils needs the help of a twin more, because if ETW isn't lethal it is very easy to get more damage out of it - just untap and swing again.

Additionally, the "twinning" play is going to come up against counter-heavy decks more (where you don't want to be channeling your resources into a single counterable tutor) and in those matchups Tendrils is much better.

[Giles]

Hello all.
First I want to say that I love the deck. I have proxied it up and playing with it fine. However, I just want to share some of my notes.

Is Plunge into Darkness a 4 of? Since I only do it once a game and Rystic Tutor might be a better card for 2 of Plunge's spots

Second is that I am having trouble with Force of Will. Are there any pointers how not to walk into it?