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Thread: [Deck] TES (The EPIC Storm)

  1. #21
    monkey
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    Re: [Deck] The EPIC Storm 3.0- Bigger and Badder

    Quote Originally Posted by emidln View Post
    Fabricate costs 5 mana plus whatever you want to cast.
    I assume you mean Wishing for a Fabricate, no? I dont advocate that either in retrospect.
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  2. #22

    Re: [Deck] The EPIC Storm 3.0- Bigger and Badder

    Quote Originally Posted by xsockmonkeyx View Post
    I assume you mean Wishing for a Fabricate, no? I dont advocate that either in retrospect.
    Fine. MD Therapy is better than Fabricate. Therapy naming FoW is infy times better than Fabricate -> Anything. Point remains that Fabricate is bad.
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  3. #23
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    Re: [Deck] The EPIC Storm 3.0- Bigger and Badder

    Quote Originally Posted by emidln View Post
    Fine. MD Therapy is better than Fabricate. Therapy naming FoW is infy times better than Fabricate -> Anything. Point remains that Fabricate is bad.
    Yes, but you are already going Trinket Mage -> Anything. Thereby, Trinket Mage is also bad.
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  4. #24

    Re: [Deck] The EPIC Storm 3.0- Bigger and Badder

    Quote Originally Posted by xsockmonkeyx View Post
    Yes, but you are already going Trinket Mage -> Anything. Thereby, Trinket Mage is also bad.
    Trinket Mage serves a different purpose. I'm still curious as to why you would suggest a card like Fabricate to replace a card like Trinket Mage that does something entirely different. Anyway, I'll bite, because I'm bored.

    Trinket Mage actually has three purposes against Control:

    (1) Tutor for more storm enablers/mana fixers
    (2) Quick Beats
    (3) Meddling Mage Control

    Against a deck such as UGW Threshold, they will keep a Meddling Mage + Filtering Hand if they can get down turn 2 Mage. In fact, they will keep relatively weak hands believing that Mage is actually the answer to their problems. Trinket Mage severely punishes them for this.

    The thing is, Threshold can't actually stop your Tendrils until they find a real creature. Until that point, you are chipping away at their life total each turn with Trinket Mage, which will never ever trade with a Meddling Mage, effectively casting a Tendrils with 0 storm each turn. This lets you sculpt in an effort to remove Mage on Tendrils or just Burning Wish -> Empty the Warrens anyway. Trinket Mage taking 4-10 points helps in this effort significantly.

    Here, Therapy does nothing against Mage. In fact, it's weaker without running our own Mages to sacrifice. That takes away from the utility. The cards are even played at different times. You would play Therapy the turn that you go off to know if you can and remove any obstacles like FoW or Orim's Chant. You would play Trinket Mage to tutor up things and provide an alternate win condition (usually by making more red mana with which you can play Empty the Warrens).
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  5. #25
    monkey
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    Re: [Deck] The EPIC Storm 3.0- Bigger and Badder

    Actually I was curious as well, so I was playing Devil's Advocate. Now we have a better explaination of the Trinket Mage, and other aspects of the deck, no?
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  6. #26
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    Re: [Deck] The EPIC Storm 3.0- Bigger and Badder

    Pyrite spellbomb seems like a nice 1 of as a Trinket Mage target. I don't know if it's necessary to have another answer to Meddling Mage, but if you do choose to run it, it would only take up one spot, and even if you draw it when you don't need it, it can still be played and replaced for 2 mana.
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  7. #27

    Re: [Deck] The EPIC Storm 3.0- Bigger and Badder

    Quote Originally Posted by legacyplayer0 View Post
    Pyrite spellbomb seems like a nice 1 of as a Trinket Mage target. I don't know if it's necessary to have another answer to Meddling Mage, but if you do choose to run it, it would only take up one spot, and even if you draw it when you don't need it, it can still be played and replaced for 2 mana.
    Wouldn't Engineered Explosives be an even better Mage target than Spellbomb? With a 5 color manabase, it would seem to me to be the perfect answer to Threshold's cheap creaturebase.

    I don't think there's a reason NOT to run a singleton EE in the deck, because it's damn versatile.

    Other than that, this is a pretty awesome deck WL!


    EDIT: Also, I don't know if this is the right way to fight Threshold, but Tormod's Crypt can also be fetched with it, perhaps out of the board? I think that maybe EE is more versatile, but obviously Crypt could also be a nice thing to test out.
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  8. #28
    Bryant Cook
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    Re: [Deck] The EPIC Storm 3.0- Bigger and Badder

    Quote Originally Posted by Alfred View Post
    Wouldn't Engineered Explosives be an even better Mage target than Spellbomb? With a 5 color manabase, it would seem to me to be the perfect answer to Threshold's cheap creaturebase.

    I don't think there's a reason NOT to run a singleton EE in the deck, because it's damn versatile.

    Other than that, this is a pretty awesome deck WL!


    EDIT: Also, I don't know if this is the right way to fight Threshold, but Tormod's Crypt can also be fetched with it, perhaps out of the board? I think that maybe EE is more versatile, but obviously Crypt could also be a nice thing to test out.
    I've tried both Engineered Explosives and Tormod's in the sideboard, the problem with EE is that it's very mana intensive and in a way unneeded. The deck has effectively 9 ways around Meddling Mage, I think the 10th would be overkill. As for Pyrite Spellbomb I haven't tested it but it seems unnessesary and a dead card in the opening hand being a worse Chromatic Sphere. I'm not trying to put a damper on the party but it also goes with what I said above with 10 being too many, especially since the others are more versitile.
    Whats WL?

    Also I should let people in on the techy change I made maindeck, or atleast before Eldariel tells people about our testing. I put an Empty the Warrens maindeck over a Trinket Mage, and well the card wins games.

  9. #29
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    Re: [Deck] The EPIC Storm 3.0- Bigger and Badder

    Anyhow, as I said in the testing games, I feel like Undiscovered Paradise might be the right land in the place of Forbidden Orchard. You don't have too many lands overall, so having a single Paradise that you'd have to play over each turn doesn't really hurt your land development at all and it lacks the nasty downside of giving tokens which might actually matter (especially with Empty the Warrens and opposing equipment).

    Also, do you really find you need Cabal Pit against Threshold? It seems like, with your multitude of win conditions, one or two Mages don't really appear too much of a threat, at worst they can name Burning Wish and Infernal Tutor. Then again, losing tutors makes some hands worse. I guess my point is, what's your personal experience? How often do you find you need Cabal Pit to rid of the Mages? What about how often do you find, you'd rather have other colours of mana?

  10. #30

    Re: [Deck] The EPIC Storm 3.0- Bigger and Badder

    Quote Originally Posted by wastedlife View Post
    Whats WL?
    You.

    Also, Engineered Explosives answers any permanent up to 3cc though, so I could see it being useful to stop non-creature roadblocks.
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  11. #31
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    Re: [Deck] The EPIC Storm 3.0- Bigger and Badder

    Or any roadblocks if you need to beat down with Magi.

  12. #32
    Bryant Cook
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    Re: [Deck] The EPIC Storm 3.0- Bigger and Badder

    Quote Originally Posted by Alfred View Post
    You.

    Also, Engineered Explosives answers any permanent up to 3cc though, so I could see it being useful to stop non-creature roadblocks.
    Theres very few non-creature road blocks that EE would solve over Burning Wish, the main problem I have with EE is it doesn't effectively stop Chalice of the Void. If your opponent cast 1st turn Chalice 0 what do you do? Trinket Mage up EE no longer has relevance which is why it was cut from the SB for Rebuild. I'm aware that the deck has no answer's coming from Trinket Mage, but no answers is better than playing a maindeck dead card. This arguement is why I don't believe in maindeck bounce.

    It's purpose is rarely used for it's slot in the deck and it horrible to see in your oppening hand/mid-combo(off of Diminishing Returns). The deck is built so that maindeck bounce isn't needed with Grapeshot and Empty the Warrens. As for sideboard EE, I'd simply rather have Rebuild to take care of Trinisphere, Chalice and other troublesome artifacts all at once.

  13. #33
    Artist formerly known as Anti-American
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    Re: [Deck] The EPIC Storm 3.0- Bigger and Badder

    Decks that run Chalice outside of Faerie Stompy are usually very slow. You sit there and build up your mana base and 2-3cc Ritual effects and then you go off. That's only 2-3 turns from the 1st Chalice being played, as this deck is very fast.
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  14. #34

    Re: [Deck] The EPIC Storm 3.0- Bigger and Badder

    Quote Originally Posted by wastedlife View Post
    Theres very few non-creature road blocks that EE would solve over Burning Wish, the main problem I have with EE is it doesn't effectively stop Chalice of the Void. If your opponent cast 1st turn Chalice 0 what do you do? Trinket Mage up EE no longer has relevance which is why it was cut from the SB for Rebuild. I'm aware that the deck has no answer's coming from Trinket Mage, but no answers is better than playing a maindeck dead card.
    Obviously you play lands that tap for colorless. Then you use Trinket Mage to tutor up EE and cast EE for 1 with colorless mana then tap 2 to kill Chalice. Do the Stax players always have to expain how to beat themselves around here? ;)
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  15. #35
    Bryant Cook
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    Re: [Deck] The EPIC Storm 3.0- Bigger and Badder

    Colorless lands in a 5 color deck just arn't viable. Even if it was a joke, so you found a way around chalice at 0 and EE. But does that make it any more playable in TES? I don't think so. If anyone sees otherwise I'd like to hear why, because Burning Wish is everything EE is but better and a threat.

  16. #36
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    Re: [Deck] The EPIC Storm 3.0- Bigger and Badder

    I suppose you could get some utility out of the colorless land. Quicksand leaps to mind for goblins, although that's hardly a problem matchup. You've considered all of the 2-mana lands already, I suppose. They seem like the best choice, but still subpar. I can't think of any better colorless lands off the top of my head right now, although I'm sure there's something.

    I guess I'm with Anti-American on this, that it's best just to sit on what you've got and wait untill you can combo off.

    EDIT: How about archeological dig, boseju who shelters all, or academy ruins?
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  17. #37
    Artist formerly known as Anti-American
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    Re: [Deck] The EPIC Storm 3.0- Bigger and Badder

    Quote Originally Posted by rsaunder View Post
    EDIT: How about archeological dig, boseju who shelters all, or academy ruins?
    Some time ago, I had a build which was more oriented towards Second Sunrise and ran Chromatic Spheres and Stars. What I did was use Helm, played a bunch or Chromatic Stars and Spheres, played something like Seethign Song, converted the mana, and then won. I was very consistent and won turn 2 consistently, but suffered to Chalice and Tormod's Crypt.
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  18. #38
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    Re: [Deck] The EPIC Storm 3.0- Bigger and Badder

    Quote Originally Posted by wastedlife View Post
    Nausea also relies on Helm of Awakening. Case and point?
    Relies is a harsh term, it wants. Ive won countless games without helm.

    Quote Originally Posted by wastedlife View Post
    Iggy has a 3cc uncounterable, double blue, bounce spell congratulations. Wipe away is just bad; in fact main deck bounce is just bad.
    Wipe Away is fucking amazing, and if you werent too thick headed you'd notice its the spell that answers all the problems being discussed in the thread. The only reason you cant support the double blue cost is because you insist on playing all five magical gathering colors. Dont blame the card, blame yourself. You're wastedlife.

    Quote Originally Posted by wastedlife View Post
    Burning Wish serves the purpose of bounce while being a threat. Burning Wish is a threat/answer/win condition all in one which is greater than a bounce spell.
    NO it doesn't. Burning Wish serves the purpose of bounce OR a threat. Its a threat OR an answer OR a win condition. I know your point is that its a better utility spell than Wipe Away and I cant argue with that, nor was I suggesting to cut wish. But you cant keep saying its what will pull you through. Your deck has a low card draw/tutor count because it relies on the powerfull effects of Hellbent IT's and Burning Wish. If Meddling Mage names Burning Wish then your really up shit creak. Is Burning Wish better than Wipe Away? Of course, but like I said, I wasnt comparing them.

    Quote Originally Posted by wastedlife View Post
    I understand after you cast Ill-Gotten Gains and if it resolves you'll be in a winning position, but if it resolves you were probably going to win anyway.
    You have a single IGG in the maindeck, when its countered its over. Iggy Pop has 7-8 copies when you count Mystical Tutor, which also gives the deck a sweet chance against discard decks. EOT tutor for IGG = GG. The EPIC Storm however, scoops up against discard.

    Have you given any thought to Repeal? If you bounce an LED or Mox you generate 2 storm and 1 card draw off 1 blue mana, then you also have more mage answers. That seems better than Trinket Mage.
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  19. #39
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    Re: [Deck] The EPIC Storm 3.0- Bigger and Badder

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti~American4621 View Post
    Some time ago, I had a build which was more oriented towards Second Sunrise and ran Chromatic Spheres and Stars. What I did was use Helm, played a bunch or Chromatic Stars and Spheres, played something like Seethign Song, converted the mana, and then won. I was very consistent and won turn 2 consistently, but suffered to Chalice and Tormod's Crypt.
    I know that untill very recently, Wastedlife also ran second sunrise. It was never quite Yawg's will to me, but it was OK. Getting back a LED, trinket mage and priest of gix after they'd been culling/intented away was always some good.

    Those lands I suggested were more to give colorless mana as well as some other useful effect as well as colorless for EE to handle chalice. Now that I think about it, Tendo Ice Bridge would be superior to all of the rest of those in that regard, but repeal has some real potential in here. I don't see it MB, but I can totally see 3 copies SB as the possibility of hitting your own LED/whatever as well as chalice is pretty sexy. I'd like to test it out a bit first, though.
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  20. #40

    Re: [Deck] The EPIC Storm 3.0- Bigger and Badder

    Quote Originally Posted by bane_of_the_living View Post
    Some weak insults and speculation...

    If Meddling Mage names Burning Wish then your really up shit creak.
    Note the availability of Grapeshot and Maindeck Tendrils. If you name Burning Wish with MM, it is probably going to be the wrong play against a deck with Cabal Pit x2, Tendrils MD, and Grapeshot MD.


    You have a single IGG in the maindeck, when its countered its over. Iggy Pop has 7-8 copies when you count Mystical Tutor
    When your single IGG is countered you have 4 more in the board. Interestingly, you have up to 8 copies of IGG in TES as well. Consider this scenario:

    Play IGG (countered)
    Play Burning Wish #1 (countered)
    Play Burning Wish #2 (countered)
    Play Burning Wish #3 (countered)
    Play Burning Wish #4 (resolves) finding IGG
    Play IGG #2 (resolves) getting IGG, Burning Wish, Burning Wish
    Play Burning Wish #5 (resolves) finding IGG
    Play IGG #3 (resolves) getting IGG, Burning Wish, Burning Wish
    Play Burning Wish #6 (resolves) finding IGG
    Play IGG #4 (resolves) finding IGG, Burning Wish, something
    Play Burning Wish #7 (resolves) finding IGG
    Play IGG #5 (resolves) finding IGG, something, something
    Play IGG #6 (resolves) finding something, something, something

    Now, you have actually cast IGG 6 times. You have cast Burning Wish 7 times. That is 13 possible times you had an IGG. Don't give me crap about Iggy Pop having more copies than TES. It's a lie.
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