[Deck] TES (The EPIC Storm)

[jamest]

I did some brief goldfishing with this deck. One card I've been testing is a single Grim Tutor in the sideboard. Basically, it functions has a wishable Infernal Tutor. What do you guys think?

[solidarity!]

I do not think it is of any use since if you want to burning wish for something you do not want to wish a tutor since you will have mostly all the answers in your sideboard and cards that help you through with comboing and if you wish for the tutor the combo is costing alot of mana mana that you mostly do not have.

[kicks_422]

If you really want a Tutor in the SB, cut 1 Infernal in the MD and put it there. I think someone has been doing that with good results, though I don't know if he still does it (was it Anti-American?)...

[Kronicler]

A tutor in the SB isn't really necessary. At first there was a tutor in the side so that you could burning wish for infernal, then infernal for IGG and have a tutor in the yard to continue the loop with, but with that amount of mana you can just as easily D Returns ftw or you can always wish for an infernal tutor that may have been RFGed off of plunge or chrome mox.

Kronicler

[Citrus-God]

If you really want a Tutor in the SB, cut 1 Infernal in the MD and put it there. I think someone has been doing that with good results, though I don't know if he still does it (was it Anti-American?)...

I still do that ironically. But to be honest, I would much rather have that token Death Wish to be Infernal Tutor, so I can put Grim Tutor in the SB instead. Sadly, I dont. I still like those small changes, but they were just there to fill in what I kept seeing, and what I kept doing with excess amounts of mana.

[Nightmare]

Yesterday while testing, I beat DampingEngine's Faerie Stompy twice through multiple Chalices. Once through Chalice at 0 and 1, once at 0,1,2. Both times he brought himself to about 12-14 through Ancient Tomb, and I worked into a hand of a bunch of counterable stuff and Tendrils. Eventually a bunch of land on the table equated to me throwing stuff into Chalice, and running him low with Thendrils, until his own Serendib killed him. Pretty sweet.

[APriestOfGix]

well thanks wastedlife.

I played belcher for forever, and when i played you that one day of MWS you changed my idea. Since i own all the $$ in TES except Wish, i think im going to try it out for a while as it looks very solid and stronger than Belcher.

[BreathWeapon]

I agree that the odds of casting a tutor effect are greater than casting ETW, but the percentage for Warrens seems high at 16%. The percentage for ETW vs. Tutor effect is irrelevant when deciding what to counter or Meddling Mage. You also stated earlier in the thread that you should Meddling Mage acceleration, does that make you a “Flip Flopper?” What’s previous in the thread doesn’t matter right now for many reasons. One of them could possibly be that people didn’t know how to play against the deck, but that doesn’t matter now. Countering the acceleration doesn’t even allow TES to get started. I’m skilled enough with the deck when if an opponent waits until the last few cards to counter I’ll end up winning. It’s really not that difficult.

There’s no definitive card you should name, however, there’s types of cards you should name. These types of cards are called acceleration.

Either way, you would lose to both. Force of Will on the appropriate acceleration piece or mass removal. You claim all this about aggro-control, do you play against it? A lot of it plays EE, Force of Will and Stifle; you don’t want to be trying to win with tokens.

It is less than 16 percent, I think it's appr. 10 percent depending on whether or not you play or draw. Regardless, the odds of tutor vs ETW are relevant when determining what to counter, because countering the acceleration is less efficient than countering the tutor, and when the odds of ETW are so low, the risk vs reward is in your favor.

Acceleration isn't an automatic target, if the aggro-control deck has a hand with Force of Will, he has other options for Meddling Mage.

I've had a lot of success with the following,

-4 Brainstorm
-1 Tendrils of Agony
-1 Diminishing Returns
-4 Right of Flame

+4 Night's Whispers
+2 Empty the Warrens
+4 Simian Spirit Guide

SSG is significant for several reasons; 1st, it increases the deck's speed. 2nd, it increases the deck's turn one plays. 3rd, it adds R after Diminishing Returns. 4th, it counters Daze. 5th, it's an additional R for Shattering Spree when Chalice=1. 6th, it's a 2/2.

I assumed that the storm and additional mana from the ritual would outweigh the SSG, but the speed of the 0 cost accelerant and the R from the Returns has made the deck faster and more consistent on the first and second turns at the cost of power and durability on the third and fourth turns. The deck still averages appr. 4 storm on turn one for ETW, and it can cast it on turn one with a greater frequency.

Night Whispers has been "the bomb" with 16 accelerants to cast it on the first turn. Having the additional card and fresh top deck on the third/fourth turn gives the deck an edge against aggro-control and control.

[rsaunder]

So Bryant, I hear you did some good at TML open.

[Kronicler]

Dude, Bryant, congrats! 1st place for TES, amazing job. Now we have some evidence for the IGGy vs. TES thread. BTW, cannot wait for the report.

Kronicler

[Zach Tartell]

Let's say you win game one against goblins, or affinity, or anything with red in it. Game two you're on the draw, they go land (lackey/ornithopter/arcbound ranger/kird ape), go. You go land, b-storm, nothing, go, they drop pyrostatic pilar. How does TES play around that? I know that even with confinement it was a headache.

[BreathWeapon]

A tutor in the SB isn't really necessary. At first there was a tutor in the side so that you could burning wish for infernal, then infernal for IGG and have a tutor in the yard to continue the loop with, but with that amount of mana you can just as easily D Returns ftw or you can always wish for an infernal tutor that may have been RFGed off of plunge or chrome mox.

Kronicler

This is interesting tech,

Assuming that the purpose of the SB Grim Tutor is to be able to tutor->IGG->tutor->Tendril with out Hellbent, i.e Lion's Eye Diamond, SB Doomsday can be used for the same purpose.

Infernal Tutor + Lion's Eye Diamond + Lion's Eye Diamond + Ill Gotten Gains + Tendrils of Agony

For 1R, Burning Wish, BBB, Doomsday, U, Brainstorm and 1B, Infernal Tutor the deck can combo off on the same turn for 2RUBBBB non-Lion's Eye Diamond mana. If you use two turns, you can combo off for 1RBBB on turn one and 1UB on turn two.

All you need is Brainstorm and Burning Wish in your hand, or if you have Burning Wish and Tendrils of Agony, Ill Gotten Gains or Infernal Tutor, you can replace the top card of the stack with a Brainstorm.

I'm not certain Burning Wish->Doomsday + Brainstorm is any better than Burning Wish->Tendrils of Agony + Infernal Tutor, but it deserves PTing.

As an aside, for people who want to use a SB Infernal Tutor, remember that Plunge into Darkness RFGs cards. If you aggressively Plunge into Darkness for Lion's Eye Diamond, you can RFG an Infernal Tutor and Burning Wish for it.

@Lonelybaritone

You can either Burning Wish->Tranquility/Hull Breach or play Empty the Warrens for less than 10 storm; Pyrostatic Pillar is the least of your worries.

[No_Life_No_Future]

I feel that this is kind of a dumb suggestion and a poor/mean strategy but since those type of suggestions come first nature to me I will share it anyway.

I think this deck wins the majority of its g1's. Then the other decks side in their combo hate and mull to it...
(if this is incorrect please say so)

I know the CC is a little bit difficult, but could you draw the game vs control/other decks with sideboard hate by sidding in and stringing together Shahrazad's? (with burning wish).

[Goblin Snowman]

I feel that this is kind of a dumb suggestion and a poor/mean strategy but since those type of suggestions come first nature to me I will share it anyway.

I think this deck wins the majority of its g1's. Then the other decks side in their combo hate and mull to it...
(if this is incorrect please say so)

I know the CC is a little bit difficult, but could you draw the game vs control/other decks with sideboard hate by sidding in and stringing together Shahrazad's? (with burning wish).

Or they could scoop the side-game, losing 1/2 their life after forcing you to waste a Burning Wish and get WW.

[No_Life_No_Future]

yeah, guess I didnt think of that.... :)

[Gekoratel]

The following was a question I asked in Wastedlife's 1st place tournament report thread but this is probably a more fitting place for the question.

In your match against Goblins round 2 game 3 this was your hand after you passed the turn.

After my Brainstorm resolves my hand is 2x LED, Petal, Burning Wish, Infernal, and Land.

If your Goblins opponent kept a 7 card hand on the draw then there's close to a 56% chance that it contains Chalice of the Void (assuming he runs 4x in the board.).

I know in T1 playing against decks with Chalice its always a hard debate with how many Moxens you should run down because you want to keep them for storm but you also need the mana in order to combo off. This makes it a tough call. Did you consider playing any of your 0cc accelarants or is that always a bad play with this deck?

When playing against decks that have Chalice of the Void postboard how do you play around it. It seems like simply holding onto LED's is taking a big risk because if they have Chalice your primary source of mana will be shut down. I know that the deck has B. Wish -> Shattering Spree but that takes two turns and if your opponent hits Wasteland, Rishadan Port, or other disruption you could be in serious trouble.

[Bryant Cook]

In that thread, I don't know If I mentioned this or not but he had mulled to five game three. This was very crucial on me not playing the LED's normally I would have; however, I decided to take a risk having Burning Wish as back-up. Taking risks is half of the challenge with this deck, if you are too conservative or too crazy you will lose.

[Nightmare]

Quick tourney recap from this weekend:

Sunday Mike Herbig(herbig) and I went to an Extended PTQ in Rochester, both of us playing TEPS. I scrubbed out after losing two difficult matchups, while herbig went on to get screwed at 9th place. I decided while I was there, I might as well steal some Rochester ratings points, and play in their weekly Legacy event. I played TES (obv.), with the following list:

// Lands
4 [AN] City of Brass
4 [WL] Gemstone Mine
2 [OD] Cabal Pit
1 [CHK] Forbidden Orchard

// Creatures
4 [SC] Xantid Swarm

// Spells
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
1 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
4 [JU] Burning Wish
1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
4 [B] Dark Ritual
3 [TO] Cabal Ritual
4 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
4 [FD] Plunge into Darkness
1 [AL] Diminishing Returns
4 [CS] Rite of Flame
3 [TSP] Empty the Warrens
4 [MM] Brainstorm

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
SB: 1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 [AL] Diminishing Returns
SB: 1 [TSP] Empty the Warrens
SB: 2 [UL] Defense Grid
SB: 1 [GP] Shattering Spree
SB: 1 [PS] Hull Breach
SB: 4 [US] Duress
SB: 1 [PC] Rough//Tumble
SB: 4 [RAV] Dark Confidant

The SB was as such because I couldn't find all my cards. I didn't intend to play Legacy.

Round 1 - JT (unregged) - White Weenie/Pariah

JT is a casual-type player who is there for fun more than anything else, and tells me so before we begin. He plays a turn 1 Plains, and I have a slow start. His turn 2 True Believer means Empty the Warrens gets used, and I make about 25 tokens on my turn 2.

SB: -4 Xantid, +4 Dark Confidant (this becomes a trend - very aggro tournament)

Game 2: Similar start from JT, turn 2 Believer. I have a hand full of tutors and little mana, so it's going to be a little slower, and I EtW for about 8. He goes turn 3 Inviolability on True Believer, Turn 4 Worship. Well. I guess I have to dig for a Wish -> Hull Breach. after Diminishing Returns doesn't find it (I drew Returns, not tutored for it), he drops a turn 5 Fountain Watch (look up what it does. Go ahead. I'll wait), we go to game 3.

Game 3: Tendrils on turn 2. He gets to play a single Plains.

I always feel bad playing combo in any kind of casual atmosphere. Casual players generally dislike playing vs. combo, heavy discard, and blue control. Losing turn 2 isn't fun, and I apologize profusely. Oh, I was mad late to the event because of the PTQ, too, which was even worse.

Round 2 - Stan (unregged) 43Land.dec
Game 1: Stan goes turn 1 Savannah, Manabond. I smile. He dumps Maze of Ith, Port, Fetch, Monestary into play, and discards a non-LftL card. I go Gemstone, Rite, Rite, Empty for 6. He doesn't find an answer, and I never play another spell.

SB: -4 Xantid Swarm, +4 Dark Confidant

Game 2: I drop a turn 1 Bob, who dras about 3 cards and gets in for 6, until Tabernacle hits play. With that on the table, I'm forced to use Tendrils, which I do, after Returns, and IGG. Stan said he mis-boarded, as he's not familiar with the deck and he didn't know what I was playing after only seeing 4 cards game 1.

Round 3 - Dave Price (Quicksilver) - RGBSA
Game 1: I think I won on turn 2, when Dave dropped Land, Birds.

SB: -4 Xantid Swarm, +4 Dark Confidant

Game 2: I went crazy with mana around turn 3, and Returns'd with a ton floating. I ended up being 1 black mana short of wishing for Tendrils, so I was forced to Warrens instead, which gave Dave 1 turn to find an out. He tried to rip the BWish or the Plague for the win, but he couldn't pull it off and lost. He did, however, rip my hand apart with Mesmeric fiend and Duress (better late than never).

Round 4 - Zach Fine (unregged?) - Angel Stompy
Game 1: He goes turn 1 Mom, Turn 2 Silver Knight. I go turn 1 Plunge, turn 2 EtW, and I put myself at 4 like a n00b. He doesn't notice that he has the game won, and scoops to the tokens. Awesome. I make sure to tell him after and put him on tilt.

SB: -4 Xantid, +4 Dark Confidant (Seriously, where's all the blue cards?)

Game 2: He leads with a Mox Plains Silver Knight, and I lead with a Bob. He plays Ancient Tomb, swings, SofI, and I play another Bob. He equips, swings, and the New Bob blocks. He plays that regenerating flanker guy, and passes. During my upkeep, I Brainstorm, reveal chrome Mox with Bob. I swing (why would your opponent be swinging with Bob in this situation?). Now, I have 2 mana up, so I can kill his dude, but I lose my blocker for the SofI, and lose Bob anyway. So what's the deal? Obv, I want the damage to go through. He overthinks it and takes 2. I go Chrome Mox, Dark Ritual, Rite, Burning Wish, Tendrils for 12. Take it home.

I lost a single game this event (to WW!!!) and went 4-0, winning 4 packs (which I cracked, I don't know why) and hopefully a ton of sweet, sweet Rochester ratings. This proved to me once again that Extended is the suck, and Legacy is where it's at.

[nightshade81]

Is anyone testing out different tutors then Plunge? I'm sucmming to a growing hatred for the card. When playing belcher the card was fine becasue either you won first turn or you lost. With this deck it's not so, ecpecially if you are using ETW for the win condition. A combo out of turn one or two generally results in a turn 4 kill and Plunge hits your life too low gurantee that you will live that long. If you plunge for a low number there is little chance that you are going to get what you need. Plus with City of Brass and DC in the board it can get really nasty on your own life.

Tutors I'm testing
Mystical Tutor
Lim-Dul's Vault
Intuition
Muddle the Mixture

I really don't know what else would be good and I think a few of these aren't.
My favorite has been Mystical Tutor, the only thing it can't get is LED. Lim-Dul's Vault is impressive but hard to cast sometimes and in this deck I think Mystica Tutor is just better. Intuition is slow because it cost three and generally searches for 1 IGGY and 2 Wish, I really didn't like it. Muddle the Mixture was meh, it can get Cabal Ritual, Wish, and Infernal and can be protection while going off agaist control but again hard to cast and hard to use as a Tutor (Transmute cost = 1UU).

One problem with Mystical/Vault is the fact they set up/put on top of library and don't give you it now without a Brainstorm. But the same can be said for Plunge, how often before casting Plunge do you expect to go off that turn? It's a rarity - only if you get exatly what you needed from the Plunge. Generally Plunge is casted a turn before you go off to help set up for the win. And Mystical Tutor makes a fine replcement for how Plunge works most time, exepct that Mystical Tutor garantees you get the card you want.

I was wondering if anyone else had postive results with Mystical Tutor, because I have liked it a lot more.

EDIT: Plus Mystical Tutor gives added protection vs discard

[emidln]

Mystical Tutor has a bunch of problems, but these are the biggest:

It doesn't find LED
It's blue
It's blue
It doesn't find LED
We play black cards, red cards, xantid swarm and brainstorm
It's blue
Still doesn't get LED
It doesn't put the card, which is not LED, in your hand
Predict
and finally, it doesn't get LED, even when you pay BLUE mana

Okay, to simplify and wrap things up, TES is about abusing LED. Yeah, I know it does other things, but TES is exceedingly good at, in fact, best at abusing LED. We use it to cast broken stuff like Diminishing Returns as well as more mundane things like our final Tendrils or ETW. It combos well with all of our tutors, but Infernal especially. Plunge finds LED a good portion of the time, and that's what you really want it to do. If you find something to replace Plunge, it has to either duplicate LED's functionality or find LED just as well. Mystical simply doesn't do this.