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Thread: Magic Formats and Community?-Does the Legacy format have a community of its own?

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    Magic Formats and Community?-Does the Legacy format have a community of its own?

    So after reading Bardo's article-great read by the way- the first few sentences got me thinking, do magic formats have "communities" of their own? If so, which ones?

    There are many people who play Legacy, but if a "Legacy Community" exists, does it encompass those who participate in it actively and/ or exclusively?
    What about people who see Legacy as just another fun format, in the same way they see Extended or Standard and are willing to play in a Legacy tourny if ever one pops up in their area?

    You never hear a peep from anyone who considers themselves part of the "extended community", yet outside of the Extended PTQ season there are arguably less tournaments in this format then there are for Legacy.

    Has the lack of high profile tournies by Wizards created a "need" for a Legacy community so that those who seek competitive play will be able to have it in the format they love best?
    If the "community" was created out of need, will it disappear if Legacy becomes mainstream such as Standard? (Are formats like Standard only mainstream because that is the format that the higher powers at Wizards have decreed to be what most competitive play will consist of?)

    I am fairly convinced that the game of Magic in general makes up a global community of its own, but I am unsure what to think when it comes to specific formats, wether they be limited, eternal or constructed.

    Anyways, lots of questions asked , without delving too deeply into the philosophical nature of communities and human interaction, what do you guys think?

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    Re: Magic Formats and Community?-Does the Legacy format have a community of its own?

    This question is easy to answer.

    Legacy, of course, has its own community, largely due to this site and TMD. If you refer to Osyp Lebedowitz's tournament report for the Mana Leak Open on Star City Games (Firewall, anyone post a link to it and I'll edit it in), he pointed out that even though there were only about 100 people there, everyone seemed to know each other, and that's with people travelling HOURS to get there. Many of the older members on this site (and some of the younger guys too) have been playing together since 10 years ago. In that time, it's easy to make lasting relationships with people, even if you only see them IRL once every few months at best. Having a messageboard like this one where we can discuss a common interest really helps bridge that gap. In a small-fish format like Legacy (or Vintage, too - this really applies to both formats) you have a small number of dedicated players and organizers who do the bulk of work to maintain the format, since the DCI isn't really behind you. It's pretty easy to figure out who those people are, and naturally, a community forms around them.
    Here in Syracuse, we've hosted events like the Big Arse series, as well as Kadilak's Duel for Duals tournaments, etc. Every time we do, we gather up a crowd and go to Hooters. While this seems normal for mid-teen to twenty-something year olds to do, you'd be hard pressed to get a group of 30 people to go after an Extended PTQ. Here, it's common, and amazing to have half the tournament come hang out afterward. After that, the kiddies go home and the adults paint the town. Again, you'd be far less likely to have something like that happen in a less community-oriented format.
    Without sounding sappy, there are people on The Source that I consider more than just names on the other end of a computer screen. These people are my close friends, and have been for a decade or more. That's something that can be found anywhere in Magic, but is found more often and to a much greater degree when you're dealing with a small group with common interests like this one.

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    Re: Magic Formats and Community?-Does the Legacy format have a community of its own?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Nightmare View Post
    Stuff.
    What he said. I am a sort of "outsider" to this community, in that I have only been coming here for a year or so (I lurked as a Guest for months before I regged); I don't have the same rapport with everyone that the regulars have, but I really enjoy visiting The Source daily, reading the new topics, whether they're new decklists, non-Magic related topics, or asking if someone should be banned, etc.

    I used play play T1.5 back in "the day" (1996-1999), but it fell by the wayside locally, as most people simply brought Extended decks with maybe a handful of different cards added. Once the format was reinvented, I had some interest, but it took me about a year to get it adopted into our local rotation. I like the format a lot; probably on par with current Standard, but a little less than Extended. I've seen a lot of interesting ideas I may not have encountered elsewhere by coming here, so I'm grateful for that.

    I kinda got off the point, which is this: I may be an "outsider" here, but unlike most community-centric boards, I have not been ostracized or insulted for not keeping my "mouth" shut, which is a breath of fresh air. You won't find camaraderie like this in Magic outside this community, I don't think.

    Well, except maybe the Vintage community, but they're Vintage players, so they don't count.
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    Re: Magic Formats and Community?-Does the Legacy format have a community of its own?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAardvark View Post
    Well, except maybe the Vintage community, but they're Vintage players, so they don't count.
    Credit where its due. They can count, but not much past 10.
    I Heart Vintage.

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    Re: Magic Formats and Community?-Does the Legacy format have a community of its own?

    Thanks for the answers guys...interesting to hear what you think.

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    Re: Magic Formats and Community?-Does the Legacy format have a community of its own?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Nightmare View Post
    Credit where its due. They can count, but not much past 10.
    I Heart Vintage.
    That's not due to their brain's incapacity, that's just because it's good enough to win. Sometimes they have to go as high as 12, like when Spirit and Akroma are beating their face in on the same turn. Now I have the sudden urge to go put together a Power Tournament......

    With communities, all you really have to do is go to any local place that plays different formats each week, or look at forums online. The Source, TMD, and now with some actually getting articles in there even SCG are Legacy places, while TMD, SCG, and one that I am completely forgetting also do a ton of Vintage work.

    Competitive/Tournament Magic to me comes down to three types of players:

    1- Those who "Win":
    These people are the ones that stick to primarily Type 2 or Limited. It's all about the Points, the Pro Tour, and the $$. The love of the game is there, but the "community" they play in pretty much have the same common goal: Play what wins, and do it a lot.
    2- Those who "Dabble":
    These are the ones I'll refer to later, that "step down" to the other formats, typically with either forced rotations from DCI, degenerate decks ruining the T2 environment, or just pure curiosity. Most Legacy players in the past few years that I've come across in the NW fall under this category, because of the '02 shift. Consider this community's core the "Pet Deckers". They usually don't want to have to keep playing something different, just something they like to play.
    3- Those who "Play":
    This is where Vintage and Legacy really shine. These players LOVE the game inside and out. The interactions of the cards, the depth of the game itself, and the insane amounts of strategy that can be involved. Example: Team Meandeck in Vintage. They create some of the most absurd looking decks (Meandeck Tendrils SX as example) to "newer" players, but a more seasoned player will see it's design and as Steven M. once put, "the flaws are mainly in the controller's capabilities". The decks here are intricate, typically break cards to the point of being banned or restricted, and show you why there's a such thing as a first turn that can go to time.

    I'm sure there's going to be people that say this generalization is off in their opinion, but this is just what I've seen over the past 6 or so years of playing with competitive players and hosting tournaments. There are players that cross all boundaries, and there's players in older formats that just want the $$ cards and only do the big tournaments. This is just a general blanket overview.

    As for Extended, it doesn't really have a huge community, but it's there. Typically it's only because of it being a Pro Tour supported format. You'll really only hear about Extended for that particular season, or leading up to it, and then barely ever again for the rest of the year. In all honesty, I'd love to see the day that Legacy gets strong enough backing that Extended is completely cut. There were rumors about it when the B&R lists were seperated that Legacy was going to take over in due time, but it seems not enough people are backing it to cut Extended yet.

    The big reason that Legacy isn't pushing more punch against Extended: the setup of the Rotations. Now that it's down to a solidified 3 block rotation, it's very common to see people who were in Type 2 just take a small step down to Extended when it rotates, and that forms a new playing field. It's also making the card pool MUCH easier to come by, as most players from Extended are Type 2 players as well, so the cards are already in their hands, or very readily available. Legacy on the other hand can be quite hard to build a competitive deck due to increasing inability to get cards (Reset, Time Vault, Force of Will, Dual Lands, etc), or their large price tag associated with them, due to being so long out of print. Extended has pure popularity of a deck to fuel the price of putting it together, Legacy and Vintage have age in addition to that. It's up to Wizards to decide when the players ability and want to commonly play Legacy over Extended is enough to push the favor our way.

    Communities will never disappear, they will only grow. As Nightmare put, most of the community here are friends in one way or another. Even those of us that have never met each other in person see camaraderie with them. This is the same for all formats. MtGO has a community, which now spans both Type 2 players and Extended players, all of which can now playtest globally, without ever needing a store to go to in order to get the latest buzz of those formats. Legacy and Vintage have very tight knit friendships because of the general playerbase all wanting to play for the fun of the game, and there's always going to be those guys that will always follow the 'Tour. If older formats get more push, they will only grow in size, they will never break up.

    Standard itself is considered the most "mainstream" for one reason: It gets the product to move. It's the format that showcases the new sets, along with Limited formats, which is what gets Wizards it's money. Other than that, there's no real big reason why they supported it the most. It's their money format, they have the biggest gains for it because packs need to be bought in order for singles to be sold, and Wizards makes absolutely no money off secondary markets. Boosters = profits, so T2 = profits.

    This concludes my essay on the topic questions. Need to get to work now....
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    Slightly off topic, but where is the Nourishing Lich in the DTB Forum?

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