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Thread: [Article] The Road To Columbus #1: The Goblins Versus Threshold Matchup

  1. #61
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    Re: [Article] The Road To Columbus #1: The Goblins Versus Threshold Matchup

    24, and I understand why you'd want to run 25 entirely. You want to hit 5 on 5 and the deck is actually really mana-hungry in the midgame when you want to be Porting every land that you can't Wasteland and still cast some random guy. Hitting 5 on 5 is important, but surprisingly more is still useful.

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    Re: [Article] The Road To Columbus #1: The Goblins Versus Threshold Matchup

    Quote Originally Posted by kirdape3 View Post
    I'm pretty sure that I was making the right plays. The only choices in the Threshold v IGGy matchup are really whether to hold back mana for counterspells or to commit to the board - and if you're holding back for counterspells what spells do you aim them at.

    Red Threshold

    4 Force of Will
    4 Daze
    3 Counterspell

    4 Nimble Mongoose
    4 Werebear
    2 Fledgling Dragon

    4 Fire/Ice
    3 Pyroclasm

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Serum Visions
    3 Mental Note
    3 Predict

    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Tropical Island
    4 Volcanic Island
    2 Island
    I'm not really sure why that list should lose to Iggy Pop. As far as the combo matchup goes, it can't be much worse than my current white list. In my experience, they haven't been able to pull together a combo that doesn't lose to counterspells by the time the creatures finish them off. Xantid Swarm shouldn't be much of a problem with seven removal spells. I've found the matchup to be very good, but I'll admit I haven't tested it a whole lot, and my testing partners were not Bomholt. In any case, a list like that should still do pretty well against Solidarity, which is more relevant.

    But if you prefer to judge decks based on how impressive they are on paper, that's fine. If I have a deck that seems to consistently perform well against those supposedly overpowered decks, I'll play it. It doesn't matter to me that there are no obvious similarities to broken cards.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. nitewolf "Professor" 9, Ph.D. View Post
    I personally like spell snare against 2 cc spells, but it really isn't good against spells that aren't 2 cc. With engineered explosives, it is a good card to have against non-land permanents with converted mana cost equal to what you set the explosives to, but it doesn't hit those that have differing cc. Plus, engineered explosives has sunburst.

  3. #63
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    Re: [Article] The Road To Columbus #1: The Goblins Versus Threshold Matchup

    I also failed to point out that Goblins was by far our best testing deck. Affinity is also very, very good, but Goblins allows for so many silly things to happen in such a compressed time. Our combo decks also were better on the numbers against the projected field than Threshold was. Affinity had the nasty habit of losing to Null Rod and Kataki, Complete Beating, but if those cards aren't present good luck to the opponent.

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    Re: [Article] The Road To Columbus #1: The Goblins Versus Threshold Matchup

    Quote Originally Posted by kirdape3 View Post
    24, and I understand why you'd want to run 25 entirely. You want to hit 5 on 5 and the deck is actually really mana-hungry in the midgame when you want to be Porting every land that you can't Wasteland and still cast some random guy. Hitting 5 on 5 is important, but surprisingly more is still useful.
    I find Ancient Tombs alleviating the mana problems somewhat as a few-of in the additional landslots. I'm personally running 23 with 2 Tombs and it seems to run pretty smoothly, even when Vials and Lackeys are answered. I definately find 22 too few though.

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    Re: [Article] The Road To Columbus #1: The Goblins Versus Threshold Matchup

    22 is awful, and I didn't care for 23. I have 24 and if I started testing again, I think I'd go to 25. I always want to hit my first four drops, and I almost always want the fifth, and yeah, like Kird said, more's useful.

    Havn't actually done it, but thought it'd be good food for thought. There's probably some four-of that's marginal utility is less than the 25th land. Any ideas?

    I havn't tested Ancient Tomb, but I would hate to have mountain, mountain, Tomb on my Warchief turn. It seems like the pain would be highly relevant, too.
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    Re: [Article] The Road To Columbus #1: The Goblins Versus Threshold Matchup

    As for IGGy, I always lose when they play Leyline Turn 0. The reason why is that your creatures are so weak, it's not even a clock anymore. They'll just sit back with so many Ritual effects that, when they're at 5, they'll just play out their whole hand and double Tendrils. I always lost like that, but it rearely happens. I usually end up beating IGGy Pop due to the fact that I'm fast, and I have enough control elements to counter what they need, such as Tutors.
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    Re: [Article] The Road To Columbus #1: The Goblins Versus Threshold Matchup

    Quote Originally Posted by frogboy View Post
    I havn't tested Ancient Tomb, but I would hate to have mountain, mountain, Tomb on my Warchief turn. It seems like the pain would be highly relevant, too.
    Yea, but it allows you to cast those Ringleaders and Siege-Gang Commanders earlier. I've found it quite effective, although specifially with Warchief, it's annoying. On the other hand, for example Matron-Pyromancer in one turn is much more doable with Tombs and makes that kinds of early kills easy. Also plays like double Incinerator or such are much easier off Tomb. And you can start casting set-up Matrons earlier with them, especially to get that Siege-Gang for the Lackey (a little-known fact is that Lackey>Matron isn't exactly the scariest play in the game, especially if opponent is going to answer the Lackey the following turn). I'm playing Mox along with it (I feel the deck has enough means to make up for lost cards, and the acceleration makes the Warchief-component of the deck more effective as additional acceleration. Besides, turn 1 Land-Mox-Lackey-Lackey is kinda überbrutal, even if they can answer one, they need to answer the other, and you can generally follow up with next turn Matron or Ringleader for something devastating off the Lackey). But I haven't tested it enough, or seriously enough, to really say 'better' or 'worse' for my experiences, I've just found it to be very effective on many occasions.

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    Re: [Article] The Road To Columbus #1: The Goblins Versus Threshold Matchup

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    Yea, but it allows you to cast those Ringleaders and Siege-Gang Commanders earlier. I've found it quite effective, although specifially with Warchief, it's annoying. On the other hand, for example Matron-Pyromancer in one turn is much more doable with Tombs and makes that kinds of early kills easy. Also plays like double Incinerator or such are much easier off Tomb. And you can start casting set-up Matrons earlier with them, especially to get that Siege-Gang for the Lackey (a little-known fact is that Lackey>Matron isn't exactly the scariest play in the game, especially if opponent is going to answer the Lackey the following turn). I'm playing Mox along with it (I feel the deck has enough means to make up for lost cards, and the acceleration makes the Warchief-component of the deck more effective as additional acceleration. Besides, turn 1 Land-Mox-Lackey-Lackey is kinda überbrutal, even if they can answer one, they need to answer the other, and you can generally follow up with next turn Matron or Ringleader for something devastating off the Lackey). But I haven't tested it enough, or seriously enough, to really say 'better' or 'worse' for my experiences, I've just found it to be very effective on many occasions.

    His right. Your so much better off being more aggressive before Threshhold gets another counter on it. The more time you give Thresh, the more likely you'll lose as Thresh get's those counters really fast. Play them aggressively when Threshold is still trying to make a comeback in the attrition war... god that post was so friggin' late.

    Personally I dont like Chrome Mox in this deck, but it works well for a lot of people, and the fact Eldariel knows what good card choices to make.
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    Re: [Article] The Road To Columbus #1: The Goblins Versus Threshold Matchup

    Part 2 of this series is up: http://www.starcitygames.com/php/new...cle/13464.html

    It's pretty much as we tested the matchup to work - Crusade is tough to cast and not even a complete game win when it resolves, and Goblins' sideboard is just better than Threshold's is because Tormod's Crypt invalidates Threshold's strategy and denies it the critical turns before Goblins reacquires the advantage in the late game.

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    Re: [Article] The Road To Columbus #1: The Goblins Versus Threshold Matchup

    Wrong series. ;)

    I'll bump the other one, since starting a new thread won't add much.

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    Re: [Article] The Road To Columbus #1: The Goblins Versus Threshold Matchup

    So what do you all say? I say Stifle is better than Crusade because it can fight Tormod's Crypt as well as Goblin Triggers.
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  12. #72

    Re: [Article] The Road To Columbus #1: The Goblins Versus Threshold Matchup

    I agree, stifle is what keeps fish in the game against goblins.

    Against Goblins, Stifle hits:

    Aether Vial: both an activation, or maybe even a critical charge counter

    Wasteland: whoops! protect your manabase

    Fetchland: whoops, attack their manabase

    Goblin Triggers: Matron's tutor, Piledriver's power bonus, Siege Gang's extra dudes, Ringleader's I win the game ability, Incinerator's cycling, Tinkerer to save your needle for a turn, Lackey's ability if you dont have a swords or blast hany

    Seeing as how stifle is decent to board in against storm combo too, I think that anyone going to a big event with Threshold should be packing stifles in the board.

    *edit*

    Although I'm a huge fan of Goblin Tinkerer, I think 4x maindeck is somewhat excessive. The build that I use when we are running the big 3 gauntlet uses 2x Tinkerer, 3x Siege-Gang, and 1x Ib Halfheart. I think Ib likes to tapdance all over Threshold's face, since it makes even your 1/1 chumps trade with threshed gooses and bears. Aside from those changes, my list is identical to Machinus, right down to the manabase. If threshhold and landstill wised up and started packing stifle, or I was expecting to see lots of fish, I would cut some of those fetches for mountains and run the risk of diluting my winleaders.

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