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Thread: [Metagame] San Diego

  1. #21
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    Re: [Metagame] San Diego

    Quote Originally Posted by GodzillA View Post
    It's possible they just seem like dicks to you because they have little tolerance for your self-adulating bullshit pontification, but that's just a guess.
    Quite.

    I'm not sure you should expect a group hug, a cookie, or anything other than intense criticism and scrutiny when you post a deck claiming nothing but positive match-ups(sorry- except for ATS). That's not an issue of people being dicks(PR was being pretty reasonable about it), that's you being naive.

    I'm not really sure the SD meta is actually a rogue paradise; the 4C Landstill list was impressive, but a lot of the deck choices have seemed questionable. SDZoo never impressed me, and that Reanimator list seems to have a lot of extraneous jank slots. Not to discourage innovation, but I'm not sure that the Johnny Complex should be fostered either.
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  2. #22
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    Re: [Metagame] San Diego

    I have never been to impressed with the Sd decks. 4c Landstill is a decent deck and the only reason I drew with the deck is 2 reasons time, and Nick Trudeau. If it had been another player I would have won that match. SD zoo, and the reanimator decks has never been to impressive.

  3. #23
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    Re: [Metagame] San Diego

    Odd. I seem to have the opposite impression. I've generally been interesed in many SD decks - Reanimator, Bw Braids, SDZoo, Throbbing Pink Weenie - but relatively uninterested in the the Landstill revision.

    Sorry, no explanation - just throwing it out there.
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  4. #24
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    Re: [Metagame] San Diego

    Dave Hernandez is crying right now.

    Edit: I hope this doesn't turn into an East Coast Vs. West Coast thing, look what happened to Biggie and Tupac.

  5. #25
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    Re: [Metagame] San Diego

    Quote Originally Posted by calosso View Post
    I have never been to impressed with the Sd decks. 4c Landstill is a decent deck and the only reason I drew with the deck is 2 reasons time, and Nick Trudeau. If it had been another player I would have won that match. SD zoo, and the reanimator decks has never been to impressive.
    Reason 2 is also why decks don't get a lot of input as well, sure if it had been anybody else because anybody else hasn't had all the experience with the deck. The decks we bring up have been tested and tuned and its tough to get good input when you bring it up to other people and they've never touched the deck and can only judge it with their first impression or their opinions about what it looks like on paper.

    I'm not arguing with anybody, a lot of the points brought up so far are true, and this really isn't a rogue metagame so much that its just a bunch of people with their pet decks that are dead but they like adding their own tweaks or they just build a new version of an old idea.
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  6. #26
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    Re: [Metagame] San Diego

    While those matchups were sort of ridiculous, that's not such a huge deal ultimately. It's hard to find a decklist posted that has realistic matchup percentages- as far as I'm personally aware, Vial-Goblins' only listed good matchups in the entire Open forum are Truffle Shuffle, Train Wreck and MUC- but we don't lock all of Godzilla's shitty threads. I think Peter_Rotten's locking of that thread was a bit of a dick move, although in his defense he has a compulsive need to lock things.

    I do agree with him that whether or not they're breaking the metagame in half, I've been very impressed with the overall quality of San Diego decks, a lot of which have been both competitive and true innovations that aren't strictly subpar to one of the big three, rarities in this day and age.
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  7. #27
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    Re: [Metagame] San Diego

    Quote Originally Posted by SpatulaOfTheAges View Post
    I'm not sure you should expect a group hug, a cookie, or anything other than intense criticism and scrutiny when you post a deck claiming nothing but positive match-ups(sorry- except for ATS). That's not an issue of people being dicks(PR was being pretty reasonable about it), that's you being naive.

    I posted it to share my deck, but I lied about the match-ups. No match-up is better than 50/50.

    Matter of fact, the deck really sucks, and has less than a 10% chance to beat any deck. I win by getting people to conceed to me. None of the cards in the deck should ever be played because they all pretty much suck by themselves as well.

    It really is a horrible deck, I think that you shouldn't give it another thought.

    The deck was meant to be a joke like 43Land.deck.





    It is amazing that Goblins can go 5-0 or 0-5 any given week. Threshold never finishes in the top 4, and when Solidarity is played, it is hit or miss much like Goblins.

    We hate decks that show up often, and decks that do well over a few weeks get hated as well. If you consistantly take 1st, 2nd, or 3rd through all the hate you are either lucky, or have a decent deck.

  8. #28
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    Re: [Metagame] San Diego

    A lot of people are interested in not only SD decks & perspectives, but decks & perspectives from all over the globe - especially A) serious players/followers of the format & B) our large percentage of lurkers. Unfortunately, there are several problems.... First & foremost, far too many people who post frequently are from the idiot contingent - the ones who don't bother to build & test before shooting off about a deck. Their 'points' tend to range from useless to insulting and clutter a thread nicely.... Also, people (and I am as guilty here as anybody) will often respond to the person as much as the information. I find Complete Jank to be an arrogant ass, if a neat deckbuilder (much like IBA, ironically, if not quite so much...). As such, any responses are likely to be cranky, even when admiring decks (such as the B/w SmallPox, which I have been tinkering with). In the end, however, no posting/no exposure leads to not only a dearth of what could be format broadening conversation/introspection but dismissal of the entire meta & those who play within it.
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  9. #29
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    Re: [Metagame] San Diego

    Quote Originally Posted by scrumdogg View Post
    A lot of people are interested in not only SD decks & perspectives, but decks & perspectives from all over the globe - especially A) serious players/followers of the format & B) our large percentage of lurkers. Unfortunately, there are several problems.... First & foremost, far too many people who post frequently are from the idiot contingent - the ones who don't bother to build & test before shooting off about a deck. Their 'points' tend to range from useless to insulting and clutter a thread nicely.... Also, people (and I am as guilty here as anybody) will often respond to the person as much as the information. I find Complete Jank to be an arrogant ass, if a neat deckbuilder (much like IBA, ironically, if not quite so much...). As such, any responses are likely to be cranky, even when admiring decks (such as the B/w SmallPox, which I have been tinkering with). In the end, however, no posting/no exposure leads to not only a dearth of what could be format broadening conversation/introspection but dismissal of the entire meta & those who play within it.
    I am an arrogant ass, sorry for that. I just can't help myself, but please forgive me.

    However, I posted this very deck in the New and Developement section, and continued to post updates and progress for over a month. I have nothing to do at work or most evenings. I have done almost nothing but work with the deck for the last month, and I was already thinking about the deck design long before I posted anything.

    Don't say that I didn't give it exposure. It has had plenty of reports on it.

  10. #30
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    Re: [Metagame] San Diego

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter_Rotten View Post
    Odd. I seem to have the opposite impression. I've generally been interesed in many SD decks - Reanimator, Bw Braids, SDZoo, Throbbing Pink Weenie...
    QFT. I actually like a lot of the decks that come out of San Diego. If they're archetypes I have some familiarity with I try to give meaningful input when I can. I'd like to see more input from the SD crew.

    Quote Originally Posted by InfamousBearAssassin
    It's hard to find a decklist posted that has realistic matchup percentages- as far as I'm personally aware, Vial-Goblins' only listed good matchups in the entire Open forum are Truffle Shuffle, Train Wreck and MUC- but we don't lock all of Godzilla's shitty threads.
    Technically speaking, your matchup percentages aren't accurate either, since you're incapable of creating a deck that doesn't unintentionally draw every match it plays by going over time. But we don't delete all of your crappy threads either.

    Quote Originally Posted by InfamousBearAssassin
    I think Peter_Rotten's locking of that thread was a bit of a dick move, although in his defense he has a compulsive need to lock things.
    I actually agree, to an extent. I don't think Matt did it to be a dick, but I don't necessarily agree that the thread needed to be locked, either. What I do think is that if the deck is going to be posted in Open, it must have a far more detailed explanation of its matchups, including sideboarding plans and specific strategies integral to each matchup. This is far more useful to people than arbitrary win ratios, and is more credible as well. If CJ wants to take the time to do in-depth writeups on the matchups he's familiar with, I'm okay with moving the thread to Open.

    Incidentally, my earlier comment about pontification was not in reference to the contents of his thread, but rather the contents of his many PM's to the mod staff, which have been largely obtuse, arrogant, sarcastic and disrespectful. Our patience wears thin.

  11. #31
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    Re: [Metagame] San Diego

    Quote Originally Posted by GodzillA View Post
    I actually agree, to an extent. I don't think Matt did it to be a dick, but I don't necessarily agree that the thread needed to be locked, either. What I do think is that if the deck is going to be posted in Open, it must have a far more detailed explanation of its matchups, including sideboarding plans and specific strategies integral to each matchup. This is far more useful to people than arbitrary win ratios, and is more credible as well. If CJ wants to take the time to do in-depth writeups on the matchups he's familiar with, I'm okay with moving the thread to Open.

    Incidentally, my earlier comment about pontification was not in reference to the contents of his thread, but rather the contents of his many PM's to the mod staff, which have been largely obtuse, arrogant, sarcastic and disrespectful. Our patience wears thin.
    I know I come off as a PITA, but the approach here is much different than other places I post. Hell, I received an infraction, and never knew what it was for, even after I read the forum rules. I received an infraction for Double Posting, which the Forum Rules stated was something different than what I knew double posting to be, yet still wasn't what I had done.

    I know that we discuss things via PM's, but frankly I was trying to keep that out of public knowledge, or at least the extent of the PM's unknown. The PM's I have received from mods, if shared, would surprise most users. They have been disrespectful and used vulger language in a yelling maner towards me. Every PM I've sent has been professional, and sent to make this a better site. Would you care for me to send you a copy of one such PM?


    As for the locking of my thread; My thread yes did not include each Match-up and how it plays out, but more than half the [Decks] on the front page didn't either. Matter of fact, that I even discribed each card and why it works in the deck was more than some other [Deck]'s postings. Yours was very well written. If I ever post one again, I'll try to follow your format, but I don't think I'll have to worry about that.

  12. #32
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    Re: [Metagame] San Diego

    So what to do you think of the odds of totally rogue decks popping up in San Diego? The odds of me going are well under low but I do feel that this thread needs to be back on topic as well as just being curious so I can get a feel for various metas when I start playing in these big tournaments.
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  13. #33
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    Re: [Metagame] San Diego

    Quote Originally Posted by Complete_Jank View Post
    Would you care for me to send you a copy of one such PM?
    Every mod on this site has seen every PM you've sent to every other mod. I don't have a whole lot of interest in discussing this in great depth here, but I will say this: several of your PM's to members of the mod staff have included the exact phrase "you can ban me if you want, but..." That phrase alone indicates that you're perfectly aware that the contents of your messages are crossing a line, whether you care to admit it openly or not. I've told you that we don't want to ban you, we just want you to follow site rules. We have neither the time nor the will to debate the wording or validity of site rules; if the mod staff says something is being done incorrectly and needs to change, that's the end of it.

    As for the locking of my thread; My thread yes did not include each Match-up and how it plays out, but more than half the [Decks] on the front page didn't either. Matter of fact, that I even discribed each card and why it works in the deck was more than some other [Deck]'s postings.
    All well and good, but take a look at your thread in the Open forum. 4 out of 5 of the only posts in that thread focused on the unreliability of your matchup percentages. Without real data upon which to base a productive discussion, more time by far will be spent calling into question your credibility than actually discussing your deck. The omission of matchup details does you and anyone else interested in the deck a disservice.

  14. #34
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    Re: [Metagame] San Diego

    Okay. Jank, please stop making the Mods angry. I have done stuff like they do and it is not easy. They have to balance out the desires and needs of every single person here while keeping the wuality of the site high.

    Now can anyone tell me something about the San Diego meta.
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  15. #35
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    Re: [Metagame] San Diego

    Quote Originally Posted by GodzillA View Post
    Every mod on this site has seen every PM you've sent to every other mod. I don't have a whole lot of interest in discussing this in great depth here, but I will say this: several of your PM's to members of the mod staff have included the exact phrase "you can ban me if you want, but..." That phrase alone indicates that you're perfectly aware that the contents of your messages are crossing a line, whether you care to admit it openly or not. I've told you that we don't want to ban you, we just want you to follow site rules. We have neither the time nor the will to debate the wording or validity of site rules; if the mod staff says something is being done incorrectly and needs to change, that's the end of it.
    I'm not speaking about PM's to you, I'm speaking about PM's to me.


    Quote Originally Posted by GodzillA View Post
    All well and good, but take a look at your thread in the Open forum. 4 out of 5 of the only posts in that thread focused on the unreliability of your matchup percentages. Without real data upon which to base a productive discussion, more time by far will be spent calling into question your credibility than actually discussing your deck. The omission of matchup details does you and anyone else interested in the deck a disservice.
    Once again members just question whether or not the deck is any good, they just question it because they don't believe it. They don't test it, they imediately say, "no way." What? Must I win a large tourney with it to prove otherwise? It is different, and there are not decks like it out east. Red Death & B/W Pikula are the only things close, but even they aren't close. The deck was designed off the BWR Braids deck that had superior match-ups vs Goblins, Threshold, and Solidarity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cait_Sith View Post
    Okay. Jank, please stop making the Mods angry. I have done stuff like they do and it is not easy. They have to balance out the desires and needs of every single person here while keeping the wuality of the site high.

    Now can anyone tell me something about the San Diego meta.
    I am a Mod on another site that averages over a few thousand members logged on each day on that site. It is not a MTG site. I know about being a Mod, and that is why I approach them the way I do. They don't have to be disrespectful to the users, but they are.

  16. #36
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    Re: [Metagame] San Diego

    Quote Originally Posted by Complete_Jank View Post
    What? Must I win a large tourney with it to prove otherwise?
    As a minor note, Faerie Stompy wasn't even moved into the open until it did well in a large tourney. I think that it was the correct move to keep SmallPox in the N+D until it either proves itself in a more varied and quality meta than just your weeklies, or it gets a fantastic write up of the quality of Countersliver or Thresh's first post.

  17. #37
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    Re: [Metagame] San Diego

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantom View Post
    As a minor note, Faerie Stompy wasn't even moved into the open until it did well in a large tourney. I think that it was the correct move to keep SmallPox in the N+D until it either proves itself in a more varied and quality meta than just your weeklies, or it gets a fantastic write up of the quality of Countersliver or Thresh's first post.
    Sounds good, why don't the Mods just delete it, and I'll post something with a great write up much later, like in 2008.

  18. #38
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    Re: [Metagame] San Diego

    Quote Originally Posted by wastedlife View Post
    Edit: I hope this doesn't turn into an East Coast Vs. West Coast thing, look what happened to Biggie and Tupac.
    This just in, Snoop Dogg and Dr. Dre quit the Bloods and became Crips.
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  19. #39
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    Re: [Metagame] San Diego

    Please, for your own good Mike, stop talking. I am actually interested in this topic and would like to be able to read it without every other post coming from CompleteJank, talking about nothing important or relevant. If you want to complain to someone send them a PM please. I would do the same but I doubt it would have the same effect.

    But as for the topic...

    On the east coast how rare it is for strange decks to show up? In San Diego there have been very many different rouge decks show up that people have never mentioned. We have seen everything from 5 different kobolds decks, a False Cure Skyshroud Cutter combo, many Stacks varients, combo Elves before the GP's, and so many other I can't even remeber. I can't say it enough though that decks here are very different because we design with more than the top 3 in mind. Not that people outside SD don't but we have the luxury that 80% of the field isn't gobo's/thresh. Decks here have to be more resiliant so they end up performing very differently. When there is a resiliant deck that also happens to have a good matchup with the top3 is when a deck actually migrates out of San Deigo.
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  20. #40
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    Re: [Metagame] San Diego

    Quote Originally Posted by Complete_Jank View Post
    I'm not speaking about PM's to you, I'm speaking about PM's to me.
    I've seen those too.

    Once again members just question whether or not the deck is any good, they just question it because they don't believe it. They don't test it, they imediately say, "no way."
    They say no way because you posted positive win percentages against nearly every prevalent archetype in the format without bothering to describe them in any detail. Furthermore, even if they did test it themselves, there's a strong likelihood that they won't replicate your results with the deck because you haven't bothered to explain to them how you do it. You know the deck - other people do not. If you want people to take your deck seriously and to give it the testing you feel it deserves, you have to educate them about it, particularly with regards to specific matchups.

    What? Must I win a large tourney with it to prove otherwise?
    It certainly wouldn't hurt. By and large, no one takes decks seriously until someone has put up results at a large tourney with them. That's true of every popular deck in the format right now.

    I am a Mod on another site that averages over a few thousand members logged on each day on that site. It is not a MTG site. I know about being a Mod, and that is why I approach them the way I do.
    The way you approach the mods reeks of condescension and narcissism. The Source is not an automotive website and you are not a mod here. That you are a mod elsewhere is meaningless to us. You are expected to follow moderative instruction like everyone else here. Each time you are asked to do so, you treat it as a personal affront. If you feel you're not being treated with the respect you deserve, you could start by earning it.

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