If the Post is not long enough and you have a lot of time on your hands at work then why dont you just add to your post at work? You are the only player in the world who has played so why dont you help us out a little? If you add some strategies and and explain the matchups better then maybe the Mods will open it back up. Its not that the post sucks its just that there is not enough of it.Originally Posted by Complete_Jank
info.ninja
If we work hard UrDraco we can get this back on topic! It depends if I am there really. I have this obssessive need to create and play "rogue" decks, typically lockdown style, just because I can.
Team Multi-Grain - We're wholesome.
QFT. I picked up his other deck he posted (The Ex Girlfriend) and was nice enough to test it myself. He claimed to have better than 70% matchup against Tier 1. ("Solidarity, Goblins, and Threshold all pack up and practically conceed to this deck.") I proceeded to go 1-9 preboard against Goblins and 2-8 postboard against them. I posted my results on his thread thinking maybe he would disagree with me or give some tips or yell or something, and he just completely ignored my post.
That was when I lost all respect for Complete Jank's testing numbers and decks. Hell, I even think his new deck is pretty interesting, but why would I want to pick it up and try to help someone like that?
I'm really not saying this to try to be a dick, I'm saying that bad matchup numbers combined with a bad attitude will lose you the help of willing people. And it's never too late. I'm a pretty forgiving guy.
As for the SD meta. I think UrDraco hit it right on the nose. It's all well and good to have a deck that doing well in their meta, but if it can't be ported to a standard meta, then most of us have no use for it. I do hope that more people from the Whales Vagina start posting though. The clearly have an interesting Legacy community.
What Topic? There was a question, and Jaco answered it. I agreed with what he posted, as did you I believe. Lanny thought otherwise, but he's never really playing on a weekly basis. GodzillA and I kind of spiraled off, but I'm not surprised.
You can't edit something that is locked. If it wasn't locked, I'd be happy to add more info for you all considering I sit here posting here, moding another site, or working on the deck.
I started reading your post and in the first sentence you mentioned that you didn't test it much, and I kind of just skimmed it after that. I personally have never lost to Goblins in a tourney with that deck, and don't see why you'd have problems. I almost always go three games in that match-up, and each game that I win is close, but I always have won the match. Play testing had proved they win about 25% of the matches, yet they win closer to 50% of the games. My numbers are Match %'s, not Game %'s.
As for wanting to play and test one of my decks and help me; I don't post here for help from others much. I'm really only looking to share my thoughts, but I do think about some things I read, as some people have some intelligent things to say.
:sigh: My first sentance said this:
My second sentance, had you not been skimming said:I went 50-50 with Thresh, but it wasn't enough games to be certain, so that's no biggie.
There's no way this deck wins 50% of it's matches against Goblins let alone 75%. I challenge any other member on here to back up yor numbers. The deck revolves around 3 and 4cc removal while running 4 Rituals and a terrible mana base.I did, however, test the Goblins matchup extensively and it wasn't pretty. I went 1-9 preboard and a much improved 2-8 postboard. I gotta say, this deck is just terrible against Goblins. I'm new to the deck, so I'm sure I made some play errors, but even a pro couldn't pull this matchup up to 50/50.
As for this:
I call bullshit. I know you're the worlds greatest player and deckbuilder, but everyone comes on here looking for a little help else why would you post at all when you're so goddamn busy? Just to give away your tech? Doubtful. Look at your BW Smallpox thread. Hasn't it been improved through suggestions on this forum?As for wanting to play and test one of my decks and help me; I don't post here for help from others much. I'm really only looking to share my thoughts, but I do think about some things I read, as some people have some intelligent things to say.
As for why I picked up your deck and tested, it was because you asked me to!
I take the time to do what you asked and you give me the brush off. Fuck that.
Let's keep it civil. We're bordering on flames.
-PR
Last edited by Peter_Rotten; 12-14-2006 at 05:07 PM.
If you want to start discussing the Ex-Girlfriend deck, lets do it in that thread. I'll be happy to, this thread isn't the place to discuss how it is to be played.
As for the Small Pox Braids B/W deck:
Matter of fact it hasn't been improved through suggestions on this forum! Play testing it, playing it in tourneys, and discussing it with our "Team" has helped it. 2 Sets of changes were made to the deck, none of which were made because of inputs here. If you want to talk about that further, we can in another thread.
I don't come here looking for help, all the help I would ever need is here in San Diego. We compliment each other with our own suggestions. Usually one person makes a nice deck, and we point out to the other how to make it better, since we look at the deck as an outside source, and play against it often and see the weeknesses.
However, since you mentioned sharing tech: Matter of fact, I came here to post my unique deck designs so that others could study and learn, maybe even change them for their own use. Specially since I live here in San Diego, I wanted to share with everyone else that isn't here.
I also wanted to take credit for some things, as I've had decks of mine posted on the internet after I played them in tourneys. I even had someone new to the San Diego scene ask to see my Deck after I took first last week. He was playing a net deck, and I told him he could look my list up on the internet, but if he wanted to play a game I'd explain it to him, and he seemed less interested in the deck after that.
I decided to start posting on MTG sites because I hate people taking credit for other peoples work.
So, copy the post to a word file and work on it there. Im sure if you email a mod with an impressive post then they would be more likely to unlock it for you.
info.ninja
I already said that I would.
QAPC, everybody who wished to voice their opinion has and this is just becoming an argument between mike and the mods.
The argument is over. Continue the conversation.
Ok, i notice that alot of people are curious about the meta game in San Diego, and no one has really done a good job except andres *UrDraco* and Jaco. *By the way, thanks Jaco for listing me as a good deckbuilder, it means a lot*
Back to the topic though.
The meta game changes every week at Game empire, the local store that holds legacy tournaments on fridays at 6:30. One week you might get tons of Aggro, while the next you might get tons of combo. With this kind of meta game, you never know what to expect and its always fun. The environment is mainly people that are
a) Competitive and want to win
b) There just for a fun time
You get a wide range of personalities such as annoying, childish, loud mouthed or just plain arrogant, but its always enjoyable.
Usually a *tier 1* deck is absent from the decks played. Since Reanimator is a big deck over here, thanks to Rodrigo Gonzalez, so Threshold is not played due to everyone playing mainboard or sideboard graveyard hate.
Solidarity/iggy pop isnt really played that much either, because, though some may argue but i doubt it, I started a big following of fish players in San Diego, and the builds i have rarely lose to these decks. I keep most of the decklists of fish i use secret, but i may have listed a couple here. My most recent one may make an appearence at Columbus and im hoping it does well.
Goblins doesnt make many appearences either due to...well, to tell the truth im not really sure why. We get goblin varients such as goblin sligh etc. but im guessing Goblins isnt played because the cards seem expensive to some players around here. Many people also that are experienced know how to beat the deck to a pulp, and that may be another reason why not to play it.
Many of the decks that appear alot at our San Diego Tournaments are:
Stax varients
Iggy pop *minimul*
Solidarity *minimul*
goblins *minimul*
Threshold
infinate life combo
U/X fish varients
B/X reanimator varients
B/w Braids
W/X aggro
Sligh
2 land belcher
landstill varients *including the ever so famous now 4cc*
Scepter chant
Survival Varients
I hope this was informative, any Questions, I will be happy to answser them
I don't know why but this is funny.
Is Stax the only common lockdown deck you guys encounter?
Team Multi-Grain - We're wholesome.
yup
Alright, hello everyoneb i have played at Game Empire for a year or two now and have been surrounded by the best. I have built all my decks to be resilient against random crap. Jaco, Nick, and kevin show up with random ass decks every week. So your deck can't be aimed for the top three all the time. I agree with Jaco's first few posts and would like to add something. The reason a lot of my friends don't post here is because all the advice is flagrant crap. Sorry guys but it's true. I take more advice from my 15 year old friends more than the internet together. Nick told me "all advice isn't good advice". I haven't played at GE for a while due to basketball but will soon. Hope that added to the conversation.
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Lanny you should quit posting in this topic. You are mislead people, and that isn't helping discussion.
Heck, you posted that no one plays Solidarity, which is a blatent lie as there are 6 people that have the option to play it. You even chose to play it after you posted it, and when I asked you about it, you laughed and mentioned you didn't want to let anyone know you were going to play it, yet it doesn't matter as most people are set to play against that deck. By the way, how bad did you finish?
As for lockdown decks, what is your deffinition of a lockdown deck?
Mono-Blue Staxs is played, two different Black/White Braids decks are played, one being mine. I use to play my B/W/R Braids, I have a Welder Survival deck that has one win condition as a lockdown, and someone else plays another Survival deck that also has a different lockdown. ATS has Tradewind if you count that, and it is played.
What type of lockdown do you want to know about?
I have the option of playing any deck in the format that I want. Does this mean I should count each deck in my metagame analsys? I mean they could possibly be there right? But the fact of the matter is they're not. Not to mention his performance with a deck has nothing to do with this discussion and is highly irrelevant. Just because you have the option of playing a deck doesn't mean its there.
I'm not sure by you mean by 'lockdown' deck, but if you mean something that controls the board and tries to prevent the opponent from playing anything at all, the most commonly played things are Stax variants, Braids variants, Scepter-Chant type decks, and BW aggro/control. Pernicious Deed is a pretty popular card here, so a lot of the other permanent-based lock down strategies I see floated on this site would probably be too susceptible to this.
The point of Mike's argument was not carefully drawn, but it is that on any given week, you don't know what's going to show up. There are plenty of people with the cards to build Goblins, Threshold, Solidarity, and most of the other decks on here. On an average, out of 30+ decks, you could see 6 Goblins on a given night, or 0. You could see 3 Solidarity decks, or 0. You could see 8 R/x aggro decks on a given night, or you could see 1. You could see 4 ATS decks, or you could see 1. You could see 3 Madness decks, or you could see 0. You could see 4 Reanimator decks, or you could see zero. You could see 3 Devastating Dreams/Life From the Loam decks, or you could see 0. You could see 4 Fish type decks, or you could see 0. You could see 4 Landstill variants, or you could see 0. Do you get the point now?
This is what I was alluding to in my initials posts. The metagame changes relatively drastically from week to week, even with what he younger kids play, so it's correspondingly difficult to predict what is going to be played and sideboard accordingly. One thing is for certain though, and that is no matter what decks are played, there always seem to be TONS of the following cards in people's sideboards:
Tormod's Crypt
Engineered Plague
Chalice of the Void
Meddling Mage
Red Elemental Blast/Pyroblast
Blue Elemental Blast/Hydroblast
These are pretty efficient, flexible, and affordable sideboard solutions (with only Meddling Mage costing more than $2) that tend to do a good job of hating the most mainstream decks. Because of this, you often see things like Goblins or Solidarity get crushed if not piloted perfectly amidst a sea of hate.
I'm not sure what other questions you all have about this metagame. Things like Mike's deck and card choices, back and forth moderation discussion, and any other random crap is not really suitable for this thread, so if you have any other relevant questions I'll try to answer them.
I think JACO phrased it properly. Because any given week any decks could be played. Sideboard cards are focused more towards effecting multiple decks rather than just hate for one particular deck. (Example: It is unlikely that you would see Tivadar's Crusade, unless there was an outbreak of Goblins for more than two weeks.)
Actually, his performance has everything to do with this thread. It shows that Solidarity, if played does not just own the field. Many people outside of San Diego think that Solidarity is absent here. I feel it isn't played as often because it doesn't usually perform as well as people would hope.
Like JACO mentioned many decks have Meddling Mage in the sideboard, but even more have them main in Fish varients. Meddling Mage is great against almost any combo deck that is played, including Solidarity.
You are wrong; "Solidarity if played just doesn't own the field" had nothing to do with the argument at hand. Have you ever taken into consideration peoples play skill or their knowledge of decks? Have Herbig, Gearhart, Ewokslayer or Jesse Hatfield go out there it would defiantly be a different story. You can't assume just because one person is inexperienced with a deck that the whole metagame shuts the deck down or can handle it, it's a false accusation. To sum up this whole thread....
"San Diego, which of course in German means a whale's vagina"
-Ron Burgundy
Umm... you couldn't be more wrong... Playskill is a big part of the game but our meta is San Diegan (fun). Goblins tops quite often but only if they are played with more than 4 players. Don't get me wrong Lanny is a horrible player. ( How do you lose on turn 20 with IGGy Pop against Goblins with no board control?? wtf??) If David Gearhart came out here, he wouldnt get first place by any means. He's a good player ( a little highstrung...) but oyur metagame is so balanced he wouldn't be able to waltz in there and conquer. It just wouldn't happen...
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