[Essay] "Too Old for Magic" - An adult's rant.

[Nightmare]

After I came back from the release tournament today, [my parents and I] went out to dinner and we had a long talk which basically consisted of "You're too old to play magic. Trading card games are associated with little kids. Only if you're 14 or 15 years old, then its socially acceptable to play a game like magic. Magic is not mainstream, you won't make any good friends that way." And that got me thinking. I'm 19 years old, almost becoming 20 years old. I'm going to college right now, and nobody plays magic: the gathering. The people who I run into who knows how to play, only played when they were in junior high, but then they quit after becoming a teenager. My dad also elaborated by saying that by telling other people that you play magic, you're "embarassing" yourself. If you become a CEO for a company and you tell other people that you play magic, the response won't be good, you'll get a lot of strange looks. That's in contrast to saying that you like to read, play golf, play football, play chess, etc etc. Magic doesn't have a whole lot of respectability in society's eyes, especially if you're not a little kid.

Recently, this was posted in the mtgSalvation.com forums, starting a thread addressing the issue of being “Too old” to play Magic. This member's parents basically sat him down and explained that in society, Magic is not a mainstream outlet for your time, and that many people in the business community will look down on you for participating in it. His father went so far as to say he is “embarrassing himself,” and should take up a hobby such as reading, golf, chess, etc. in order to be more respectable in mainstream culture. As you could guess, the replies in that thread were supportive. Most said his parents did not understand the game, many showed their support by listing their own ages and stories. Some cited the age of prominent players and members of the WotC staff. Through reading it all, and adding my own comments, I felt more needed to be said on the issue.

I'm 24 years old, a college graduate, an Electrical Engineer, and a dedicated Magic player. I do not live with my parents. I live with my girlfriend of 3+ years and help support her while she is in college, since her mother lives across the country. I have many friends and an active social life outside work and Magic both. I have played this game since 1996, and while I took a hiatus in college, I am back in the game with no ambition to quit. Not only do I play the game, I moderate a Magic website, contribute greatly to 2 or 3 more, and my own team's board. Recently, I have been traveling once or twice a month to large Vintage and Legacy events in the Northeast, and have built up what I hope is a solid reputation as a good player in doing so.

My parents were supportive when I was younger, a few times buying me a booster box for my birthday when a new set was released, and always gave me rides to local tournaments. When I graduated from school, and began to get more involved on a higher level, they remained excited for me, and seem to be proud of my accomplishments, since they've seen me grow with the game through the years. Each time I see them now, they’re sure to ask me when my next “big tournament” is, and where. I started dating my girlfriend during the period when I wasn’t playing cards. As such, she was quite surprised to find that she was dating a geek. Since it sprung up suddenly, and limits to some extent the time I spend with her (not to mention the cards all over the house), she isn’t the biggest fan of the game. She hates when I leave for events, but is coming around now, since she understands that I won't be quitting, and it isn't a phase.

In my day to day life, out in the real world, most people I work with are aware that I play a card game competitively, and that often I’m gone on the weekends because of it. The older crowd has no idea what the game is, if they’ve even heard of it, and show me no disrespect because of it. For those who do know of the game, once they realize that I’m not one of those strange “Lord of the Rings/Star Trek/Dungeons and Dragons” people (no offense, of course, to those who are), they accept it and never really bring it up again. Your life outside the walls of the office is just that - your life – and it bears little relevance to your job, as long as you get your work done well and on time.

On occasion, I have gotten friends or coworkers who are interested in how someone of my age, or my intelligence, or my (insert something they consider “normal” here) can be interested in some silly game to such a high degree. The most common comment is usually “I’ve heard of that game. It’s like Dungeons and Dragons with cards, right?” I’m sure many of you have heard very similar things. I generally try to explain to them that while there are people who play the game for this reason, I am not one of them. At the level that I, and many of you I’m sure, play this game, it is much more like chess or poker than D&D. At its root, Magic is a math game, a game of maximizing your limited resources and inhibiting your opponent from doing the same in order to win. In reality, the fantasy setting does little more than give a scope and flavor to this mathematical puzzle, and could just as easily be based in business as in magic. Liken it to chess pieces being knights and castles and kings and queens, which, while creating a more interesting game concept, have little actual relevance to the gameplay itself. I find that more often than not, this description ends the conversation there, and the person questioning your hobby leaving satisfied and thinking more of you, rather than less. If you happen to do well enough that you make some money at events, that’s usually icing on the cake.

Certainly, there are hobbies more acceptable in the world outside the game store. Many of these can help you to become more social with your coworkers and superiors, such as golfing, watching sports, and so on. Few of these, however, expand and hone your mental capacity as much as playing Magic does. As an Engineer, math is extremely important in my field. I can guarantee I would not be as proficient with it were it not for playing Magic. The same goes for vocabulary. Playing this game expands your range of word knowledge to vast proportions. How else could you expect to know what hyalopterous means? Spell check doesn’t even recognize that word!

The purpose of a hobby is to provide you with an activity that you enjoy during time you have for yourself. Out of millions and millions of options, we have chosen Magic: the Gathering. There are certainly options more mainstream. There are certainly people out there who will not understand why you play. There are people out there who think it is a game for children, and people who will try to make you embarrassed because you play it. These people are either ignorant, and you should educate them, or jerks, and you should ignore them. Either way, there is no reason for you to be embarrassed by something as insignificant in the long run as a game you choose to play, and to be embarrassed by it is doing a disservice to yourself.

I am 100% comfortable with being a "Magic Geek," and if you get enjoyment out of the game, out of a hobby that is fulfilling, and not destructive like drugs or drinking can be, then you should play it, regardless of the image you think it gives you, or the age you happen to be. It comes down to you, what you enjoy, and how you see yourself, not who your friends-of-the-moment, your coworkers, or your parents think you should be. I know most of the time, we keep a pretty casual atmosphere here, and that this is a heavy topic. I know someone out there must have felt the same way the original poster did, and I can only hope this helps. Thanks for reading, and letting me vent a bit.

[Finn]

Good deal, Mr. N.

I am older than you are and began a little earlier (so I am a bit further down the path of a committed player in adulthood), and I have a different job - I develop and teach logic and computer programming curriculum for a living. But beyond those cosmetic differences, this entire thing could easily have been about by me.

The girlfriend who met me during an out time is now my wife, and we have two children. Incidently, this is why I no longer travel to events. It is a trade-off that certainly impacts my ability to contribute (and undoubtedly my clout), but one I am happy to make.

And I would estimate that the majority of long-time serious contributors are at some point along a very similar journey.

I'm glad you have a healthy perspective, and I hope the lad's parents were set strait.

[mikekelley]

I am 19, in college, almost 20, same age as that other poster. I am a pretty big magic/star wars geek. I also snowboard competively all over the country - I've done events like the US Open, Nationals, Grand Prixs, and so on and so forth. Sure, I get some shit from my snowboaridng friends for it all the time; like when I go out on a Friday night to play with dragons and cast spells, they love to give me shit about it. But when it comes down to it, nobody really cares. I have friends on both sides of the spectrum. The hardass snowboarder/partygoer, the magic nerd, people in between that I know from high school, jock friends, everything. I know it's been said before, but people who think less of you for playing it are pretty shallow. It seems this kid's parents need to do some growing up themselves. Unless these cardboard things are the kid's life, they should lay off him. Sure I've got a collection worth thousands of dollars, but I have other things to turn to as well. It's not my sole focus in life - I don't think that it should be anyone's sole focus in life - but just because their pleasures are different doesn't mean his parents have to give him a sex-talk of sorts about the game.


I'd like to know more about the kid's background. His social life, etc. If your social life is suffering from it, then yes, I do believe a sit-down is necessary. But if he is living a healthy life with social interaction and so on, and he does other things than just magic, what's the harm in that?

[Complete_Jank]

Yea, but then again, you are just strange. Just kidding.

I agree. I have had similar problems. I am 28 so am one of the older players I know, but certainly not the oldest. I also have another Hobby which is very mainstream, cars, and drive a very fast and expensive one. Having more than one hobby is best, and I have quite a few others.

You want a hobby that many people can relate too. Not many people have a problem relating to cars, and thus it is a conversational piece. As you get older and work, or own your own business. Golfing, Cars, & Sports become very improtant as you can use contacts you make through these hobbies or interests to spring board your career or personal business. It is called networking, and it is part of the game called the real world.

Here's my advice. It is your life do what you want, but realize the effects of your actions.

If I was the kid, I'd tell his father, "You are right dad. Magic isn't mainstream. I am going to quit playing and start hanging out with those other kids with more mainstream hobbies like smoking pot and doing other drugs." Truth is, more people actually do drugs than most people think, and it is an interest and it is very mainstream.

[Geeba]

Good job!

I think if you relate the things you do primarily to the social status you think to acquire with it, you have a very twisted definition of the concept "hobby". It's important to realize that, whatever hobby (or whatever MtG means to you) you may have, this is only one facet of you. Not to say that building PR networks isn't important, but showing character and not being afraid to do things you like to do is just as important, if not more.

Where I live, I think 20 years is the average age of the magic playing community.

[Jaynel]

Magic, however, does need to be carefully balanced with other aspects of ones life. I can understand if the guy's parents are frustrated that he's performing poorly in school because instead of doing work, he's spending every spare minute on MWS or reading forums.

I'd have to agree with Mikekelley, more information would be needed in order to get the whole picture. Someone wrote an article about Magic and depression a little while ago on Star City Games, and the parents in this situation might be concerned about the impact of Magic on his lifestyle.

Others, like Mr. Nightmare, are able to balance Magic with other parts of thier lives. In that case, it is a very healthy and valuable hobby.

[Bardo]

I am 100% comfortable with being a "Magic Geek," and if you get enjoyment out of the game, out of a hobby that is fulfilling, and not destructive like drugs or drinking can be, then you should play it, regardless of the image you think it gives you, or the age you happen to be.

Well, it's often fun to mix your drinking and drugging with MtG too, but I understand your point. Though from personal experience, I would highly recommend not taking Psychatog to a tournament if you feel like playing in the "Bean Bracket." Attempting complex Tog math in my head almost caused a seizure.

You know, at 32, I'm pretty old to be enjoying and spending a hell of a lot of my time (and money) on a collectible fantasy-themed card game--marketed to teenage virgins, no less. But what the hell, it's fun and I enjoy it. It certainly helps that I only go to Legacy tournaments, where the average age is higher than pre-releases and block events. Bizarrely, most of the people that I play with In Real Life are even older than me.

When I was younger, I used to feel a little weird and dorky, especially if I was playing in a public place. But as I've gotten older, I couldn't give two fucks about it. As you get older, it's common to become more self-assured about yourself and comfortable with the person you really are. It also helps to get laid regularly, own a house and have a good job with benefits. If I lived with my mom, was single and worked in Taco Bell--I'd certainly have to reassess my life; but I think that, even then, MtG would be the least of my worries.

In short, the dude shouldn't live in submission to the opinions of his parents. If they really cared for him, they'd let him be himself--dorky hobbies and all.

[hi-val]

Like what's the problem? You say that you play this game and people are all the sudden going to treat you like a leper? F that S. I've long held the policy that if someone thinks my hobbies are dumb, they aren't worth talking to. If you're adjusted well and have a fine life going, then Magic isn't a problem, and if you're 30 years old and living with the parents, then Magic probably isn't the cause of that.

If this guy's parents are freaking, then it's a reflection of their bad parenting and not the game's fault. You think warcrack addicts are drawn in just because the game is fun? There's a lot more going on and it's really easy to blame something like that when the alternative is facing the truth.

[scrumdogg]

My son is 19 & got me into the game (lo those many years ago, 12 I think). I'm 38 and couldn't be happier that he plays, even if I am the more serious of the two of us. It's a shame the kid in the article's parents didn't try the game. It is a good way to spend time (my daughter also knows how to play) and having another point of commonality with your kids is never a bad thing.

[Firebrothers]

At least he is playing a social game like magic that gets him out of the house and interacting wit hpeople in real life. I know some 18, 19, 20 year old guys that sit in front of their computers for 12 hours a day playing WoW. I think his parents should consider him lucky he isnt fiddiling with pixels all day.

[mikekelley]

At least he is playing a social game like magic that gets him out of the house and interacting wit hpeople in real life. I know some 18, 19, 20 year old guys that sit in front of their computers for 12 hours a day playing WoW. I think his parents should consider him lucky he isnt fiddiling with pixels all day.

Granted half the time the people he's going to be interacting with in real life are the same pixel smooching dorks he'd talk to in WoW anyway...

[Volt]

I'm 38 years old, and my life has always centered around playing games. For a long time, Scrabble was the main hobby that I devoted my time to, but I have also gone through multiple M:tG phases in my adult life. A few years back, I even learned how to count cards and went through a blackjack phase for about a year and a half. I've won numerous Scrabble tournaments and won thousands of dollars playing blackjack (yes, that means profit above and beyond losses), but Magic is probably the game I most enjoy playing. It's not something I go around advertising, but my friends and relatives all know about it. Occasionally, someone will look at me askance when they find out what a geek I am, but I've long since stopped caring. I'm comfortable with who I am. I have a steady, good-paying job, my own place (haven't lived with my folks since high school), and a girl-friend of 3+ years. Marriage isn't for everyone, btw. I realize I'm way above the median age for Magic players, and I sometimes wonder if I look odd hanging around with 20-year olds playing a fantasy-oriented ccg. But, hey, this ain't tiddly-winks, and everyone's the same age when they're playing a game together. That's my take, anyway.

[Brushwagg]

I'm 28 happily married (most of the time) have 2 kids, and own a house and I Play Magic. I've been playing since Revised (stopped playing right before Urza block) I really don't think it's that big a deal about how old you are. Everyone needs something to do outside of school, work etc..

[Phya]

Nice thread.

I'm 20 and I actually started playing seriously around two years ago. I played grades 4-7, with most of my classmates, with whatever cards we could find. We usually played for ante, which I really loved because it made your collection very dynamic (I realize that this is now totally unrealistic). I got back into magic after I went away to university was stunned at the number of people that were playing - not including people I met through the game itself I have around 20 friends that play at least casually.

Unfortunately since I never played competitively before, building up my collection put me back around 3-4 grand over the last year and a bit, and my parents were less than pleased by this. Although since my collection is essentially complete I've dropped my spending to around $50/month, which is a lot easier for them to accept than me blowing an entire summer's paycheck... and the $700+ I've won since then doesn't hurt.

My parents still poke fun at my magic playing ("if only you could use your powers for good!" my dad says) but now that it isn't causing me financial ruin they don't have a problem with it. Truthfully ebay probably caused more harm than the game itself.

[AngryTroll]

I'm another 19 year old, soon to be 20. I am working towards a degree in Nuclear Engineering down at OSU, so I have plenty of nerdy friends as it is. However, all through high school and now down at school, I play Water Polo, Swim, bike, hike, backpack, and scuba dive.

I also went through a phase where my parents were concerned about Magic, but now they are very supportive of it. They'll drop me off downtown Portland for Prereleases, because parking is just terrible, and they don't mind that I spend the Friday nights that I am in town off playing cards.

I agree with a lot of what Nightmare said. Between the bonus your vocabulary gets, the math work, the logic problems, and just playing a thinking game in general, I credit Magic with keeping me sharp. I am at school on a full ride scholarship, and I think that the thinking skills I at least worked on playing Magic certainly helped the grades in high school and now down at OSU.

However, I have friends that do nothing but play WOW. That is what they do with all of their spare time, and that is unhealthy. As long as you can keep everything in balance, Magic is not a problem. The understanding I had all through high school, and even still today in my second year at OSU, is that if any hobby, be it Magic, Diving, or Sports, starts affecting my health or my grades, the hobby will be dropped until I can get things back under control. Everything in moderation, as my dad puts it.

There is a great article somewhere in the SCG archives that is about a Parent's Perspective on the game. I will go search for it, and if I can find it I will post a link here.

[cupajoe]

There IS a social stigma to fantasy-based games, and I think a lot of it goes back to the early 1980s, when there were a lot of stories in the media about a few Dungeons and Dragons players getting completely obsessed in the game, and kind of losing their identity.....

The side effect of that was that some people viewed D&D as kind of a mind warping game for socially inept kids, and that it was a corrupting influence.....

They were all wrong, of course, but the stigma has remained, and Magic The Gathering is viewed in the public as being "D&D with cards"

Also, just like any hobby, there is some truth to the fact that some people do get carried away with the hobby and make it the only thing they do outside of work, school, etc....

I sometimes see these 300 pound, dirty t-shirt dudes at the local gaming shop, and they seem so into the games that I wonder if they have a life outside of gaming

As others have pointed out, it's most healthy to have a variety of interests and hobbies....As a married 36-year-old, mine are taking care of baby, tennis, running, biking, hiking, sports and music

[Machinus]

The best Vintage and Legacy players are 20+ years old. I'm 22 in case anyone is wondering.

[Getsickanddie]

I started dating my girlfriend during the period when I wasn’t playing cards. As such, she was quite surprised to find that she was dating a geek. Since it sprung up suddenly, and limits to some extent the time I spend with her (not to mention the cards all over the house), she isn’t the biggest fan of the game. She hates when I leave for events, but is coming around now, since she understands that I won't be quitting, and it isn't a phase.

That's funny, because I also started playing magic again after I had already been dating my gf for about 2 years. She was going to school during the days, and working nights so I had a lot of free time during the week. Now she absolutely hates it when I leave for tournaments, but a large part of that is she doesn't like being home alone (even though we have a well trained dog, and guns...). She has bought me boxes of cards for birthdays and such, so she can be supportive when she wants to be.

My parents on the other hand actually started me playing magic around 5th grade. I lived in the middle of nowhere, and they figured it would be a good social activity to play cards down at the old card shop since there weren't a lot of kids near where I grew up. Just recently for my 24th birthday my parents bought me a box of Timespiral.

[The Rack]

Mr. Nightmare, what a great way to sum up a lot of feelings on the game. I on the other hand, am the youngest person to reply so far... I'm 15 and consider myself as a competitive player. When I was first introduced to the game about a year ago I really liked the whole atmosphere of just hanging out with friends and chillin. A little bit after that I got this huge collection (to me anyways) for probably 40 bucks that was well worth over 300+. I really liked just making decks ALL THE TIME and just seeing all the diversity of eacyh card. For a bit there I was obseessed with the game, but then summer break was over and boy did I have a smack of reality. My parents at first did say "Magic is kinda a nerdy game you know..." and giving me the hint of quiting and such. So I took the hint and played about 1 a week and still am. I don't have much of a history with the game but it has affected me. Because of it I have found two of my best friends ever and a good excuse to go hang out. To complete the picture I will say that I am an athletic person standing at 6' 5 feet tall and a Varsity Basketball player. Most people don't belive me when I tell them I play a card game on Friday Nights instead of getting blasted (go figure...). All in all Magic isn't a life consuming game to me, it's just fun, competitive fun. I really think those parents should look at the whole picture instead of the one "downside" of their son. If it was a health precaution or something, then the parents should have been well... better parents about it. Life is too short not to have fun :)
- My 2 cents and a Hay penny

[aisman132000]

i'm 19 and have been playing at what i consider to be a competative level for about two years but have been playing in general since i was seven. However i took a long break from 8th grade till my senior year in highschool. Currently i am in the process of selling much of my collection as when i'm away at college i don't really have a place to play so the money that i spent on cards is pretty much lost. I played baseball all through out highschool and am beginning to get into competative weight lifting (i have a 315 bench press). In my opinion you can never be to old to play magic and anyone who thinks that simply doesn't understand the game and its complexities. If someone wants to pass judgment on me for one hobby that i enjoy they can go fuck themselves. I happen to like lot of the people that i play with and i get along with them fine. with that being said, everyone knows someone in their play group who fits the magic "stereotype". He's the guy that still lives with his parents, doesn't shower, has no social skills, etcetera. While you might not feel the stereotype applies to you it unfortunetly exists for a reason. What can be done to combat this stereotype? who knows, but until it goes away the magic playing community will simply have to deal with it.