I think the following cards are stronger than many of the "Power 9" cards. These cards if allowed to be played as a 4 of would have more effect than the "Power 9" would.Originally Posted by Bardo
Channel
Fastbond
Trinisphere
Yawgmoth’s Will
Legacy Power 9:
Goblin Lackey
AEther Vial
Reset
Force of Will
Brainstorm
Swords to Plowshares
Duress
Wasteland
Lion's Eye Diamond
Fixed
info.ninja
Tinker is great, but it requires a broken artifact like memory jar or 3-Sphere.
Anaba Grunt
Diggeridoo
Goblin Lackey
Nimble mongoose
Force Of Will
Aether Vial
Goblin Piledriver
Dark Ritual
Swords to Plowshares
Tahngarth, Talruum Hero
Yawgy's Will will own you all. The mechanized demon in that is so cute.
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Apparently you sir did not play Extended during 2003 before they banned Tinker. I don't think there was ever a more broken constructed environment, and it was based almost entirely on that card (admittedly Oath, Hermit Druid, and the usual goblin suspects were involved as well) but no Tinker does not require a broken artifact to be retarded. All it requires is Mindslaver. Or any other monolithicly large artifact. Or hell, Goblin Charbelcher was ridiculous with Tinker and Mana Severence at that point.Tinker is great, but it requires a broken artifact like memory jar or 3-Sphere.
Trinisphere is really irritating to play against, but it is not "broken". Even when it was allowed as a 4 of in Vintage with Workshop and co powering it out on turn 1 with irritating regularity it was not unbeatable. Legacy stax can run 4 Trinispheres and we don't see them dominating Legacy with their brokeness.
Channel and Yawgmoth's Will are obvious. It's actually amusing that Channel on it's own isn't worth a slot because of its color but Yawgmoth's Will continues to dominate the format.
Whatever, the concept of a "power nine" in Legacy is flawed because there are no universal cards that almost automatically go into any deck, but the closest thing is a list of the top cards that are automatically suggested during the deckbuilding construction for each color.
In no particular order:
Swords to Plowshares
Force of Will
Duress
Brainstorm
Lightning Bolt
Rancor
Dark Confidant
Aether Vial
Dark Ritual
1. Blue Duals
2. Non-Blue Duals
3. Blue Fetchlands
4. Non-Blue Fetchlands
5. Wasteland
6. Force of Will
7. Aether Vial
8. Dark Ritual
9. Goblin Lackey
The format is totally warped around those cards. If I werent to separate the blue and non-blue lands Id be adding Swords to Plowshares and Survival of the Fittest to that list. LED and Brainstorm trailing closely.
Pithing Needle is close but its a bit short of "format defining". Confidant and Loam are simply extremely good cards.
Now playing real formats.
This discussion seems to make little or no sense. If you want to make a list of essential cards for the format that is one thing, but comparing it to the Power 9 is inaccurate at best. As far as I know the Power 9 exist for multiple reasons none of which apply to Legacy. First off, these cards were underprinted meaning they only exist in the first 3 sets and no such cards apply to Legacy. Most importantly, they are simply better than the cards they could be compared to. You play Mox Sapphire because its actually better than Island. You play Black Lotus because its actually better than Dark Ritual. Ancestral Recall is the best draw spell ever. We don't have those cards in Legacy. Cards are rarely strictly better than other cards. You can some comparison to cards such as Brainstorm and Dark Ritual, but those cards require color commitments and in the case of Brainstorm often the use of fetchlands. While these may seem like minor points its important to note that with the actual Power 9 this isn't case. They are simply better than the cards that were printed after them in every way that matters. That's why things like Null Rod were printed just to create a drawback to cards like Moxen, but even that didn't prevent people from playing them in Type 1 because the drawback didn't outweigh the potential benefit from playing these cards. That isn't true about cards in Legacy.
Actually that was one of the decks/cards I played in Extended that year, but we were discussing Vintage where it is much weaker than many of the other cards.
Vintage Staxs could almost insure a turn one 3-Sphere. FoW was the only out. Most Vintage decks are less land dependent and are artifact mana dependent than Legacy decks. 3-Sphere was restricted for a reason, and once again I was refering to Vintage.
I am only a Legacy player by default. Vintage died out here a few years ago, and we Vintage players started playing Legacy, because we could get more people to play that.
You obviously never played Type 1 ProsBloom when it was first legal. Prosperity w/Channel > Fireball w/Channel.
Almost every card in Legacy does not qualify as a power card. They may define the format, but wouldnt be Legacy's power cards. Power cards warp every metagame, every time they see play. Over time, they may become accepted as part of the metagame, but the fact remains that they are ridiculously unfair decks, all thanks to certain cards.
I'm talking about Goblin Lackey. Imagine Goblins without Lackey. What is this? A deck that abuses Aether Vial worse than anything ever, has incredible disruption, an incredible draw engine, a fast kill, and ridiculous consistency? Without Lackey, Goblins is still playable. And all the natural advantages of the deck are still there, minus the brokenness thats WORSE (in a creature defined format) than dropping 1 or 2 Moxen first turn.
Goblin Lackey is the only Legacy power card. Sadly.
Referring to the art on Stasis:
Why the hell am I not on that list??
While you have point (since this format is built around removing a first turn 1/1), I'm not sure that Lackey is really the most broken card in Goblins.
I would contend that it's Ringleader. A Fact or Fiction that happens to leave behind a 2/2 haste that triggers for Piledriver? Insane. Not to mention that it's hard card advantage in a color that traditionally doesn't get any. How's that for breaking the rules? The ability to power out Gobs and then use Ringleader to refill your hand to power out more is just crazy. I doubt Goblins would be even half as good if Ringleader was banned.
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Meh. You can have my spot. Im getting errata'ed soon anyway.
info.ninja
none of the 1.5 cards being mentioned are really that powerful. i mean come on, every single deck is better with a black lotus in it. same can be said for the corresponding color of mox. time walk and recall are just effing silly.
Neither lackey, ringleader or vial even come close to having an affect anywhere similar to the rest of those. Ringleader is quite strong, yes, but that is because of the deck that it's in.
This lends itself to Mechinus' argument, and part of Bardo's. The only cards we have that improve almost every deck they go into are land cards like duals, fetches, and possibly Wasteland. Though, since two-thirds of the Tier 1 are mono-colored, duals even lose out. Brainstorm would be the only other card that might fit into this definition, but since blue doesn't hold the bar up in Legacy as high as it does in Vintage, it may not fit the echelon.
This is really more of a discussion of the best cards in the best decks. There is no power 9 in legacy because legacy has so many different kinds of decks. This topic is just silly.
As I have already proven with my post, Legacy has a power 9, until sockmoney's errata becomes official when they unveil the new comprehensive rules. Then Cavius will take over.
Team Multi-Grain - We're wholesome.
There are also so many different kinds of decks in vintage.
The power nine are the power nine because they warp the game to the point that if you arent playing with most of them, you are at a severe disadvantage in many cases. Nothing can be said like that for any card in 1.5.
What I was saying was the decks are so diverse in different aggro strategies, combo-control, etc.. To where not many decks run the same card. So that is why why Vintage has a power nine where almost every deck is powered and in Legacy there are so many decks and so many good cards in those decks.
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