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Thread: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

  1. #5321

    Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

    Question about interaction with the stack in Enchantress. Doesn't usually happen, but I am playing against Elves! tied at 1-1.

    His Board: a bunch of Elves and a dryad arbor.

    My Board: Enchantress
    Mirri's Guile
    Forest
    Serra's Sanctum
    Windswept Heath

    On Upkeep Step,
    Mirri's Guile: Humility, Solitary Confinement,Utopia Spawl

    What I believe I should\could have done.
    Order Mirri's Guile: Utopia Sprawl, Humility, Solitary Confinement

    Cast: Utopia Sprawl (I don't believe I need to tell target at this point).
    Draw Card (Humility) from cast.
    Fetch Forest from deck.
    Attach Utopia Sprawl upon resolution.
    Play Humility to block the elves.

    It is really only the first step I have a question about.

  2. #5322
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    Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gozerfish View Post
    Question about interaction with the stack in Enchantress. Doesn't usually happen, but I am playing against Elves! tied at 1-1.

    His Board: a bunch of Elves and a dryad arbor.

    My Board: Enchantress
    Mirri's Guile
    Forest
    Serra's Sanctum
    Windswept Heath

    On Upkeep Step,
    Mirri's Guile: Humility, Solitary Confinement,Utopia Spawl

    What I believe I should\could have done.
    Order Mirri's Guile: Utopia Sprawl, Humility, Solitary Confinement

    Cast: Utopia Sprawl (I don't believe I need to tell target at this point).
    Draw Card (Humility) from cast.
    Fetch Forest from deck.
    Attach Utopia Sprawl upon resolution.
    Play Humility to block the elves.

    It is really only the first step I have a question about.
    No, you can't do that. When you go to cast an Aura, it needs to have a legal target at that point (the same as any other spell).

    114.1b Aura spells are always targeted. These are the only permanent spells with targets. An Aura’s target is specified by its enchant keyword ability (see rule 702.5, “Enchant”). The target(s) are chosen as the spell is cast; see rule 601.2c. An Aura permanent doesn’t target anything; only the spell is targeted. (An activated or triggered ability of an Aura permanent can also be targeted.)
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  3. #5323

    Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    No, you can't do that. When you go to cast an Aura, it needs to have a legal target at that point (the same as any other spell).
    Thanks. It would have a "valid" target, there is a forest on the board, but you are right from what I read only Aura's target on casting. It didn't matter as I chose Solitary Confinement.
    I have no idea what happened as my connection died (XMage) the following turn.

  4. #5324
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    Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gozerfish View Post
    It would have a "valid" target, there is a forest on the board, but you are right from what I read only Aura's target on casting. It didn't matter as I chose Solitary Confinement.
    Right, there being a valid target isn't enough, you need to declare the target upon announcing the spell, and that will be the one the Aura will attach to. It's no different than any other spell in that regard, only different in the sense that it becomes a permanent in the end.
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  5. #5325

    Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

    Handling Enchantress Hoser Cards:

    Spirit of the Labyrinth:
    Aetherswon Cannonist:
    Leovold:

    Playing WGb,

    I am looking at the best approach for handling against these creatures. I had been trying out Abundance and it is a very interesting card as it helps filter draws as well and does not target Leovold for giving them an extra card. But is it better than Cast Out, O-Ring, or Ixalan's Binding? Spirit of the Labyrinth seems the easiest as it is 2-sided and at 1 toughness, once I get Doomwake out it is over.

    I think Ixalan Binding is slighlty better than Cast Out. I never usually have mana open to cast in response, and card draw is usually not an issue, so I don't think cycling is that great.

    For Aethersworn, I have Seal of Primordium in the sideboard which can break the artifact.

    I don't play Journey to Nowhere as I find we can handle most creatures anyway, although it is a possibility.

    Does anyone use any different tech than this?

  6. #5326
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    Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

    Abrupt decay is a possible Sb card in WGb that makes sure your Leovold/meddling mage opponent can't just counter it. I used to run that in UGb Words of Wind, but I think it could work in WGb as well

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    Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gozerfish View Post
    Does anyone use any different tech than this?
    My testing group has been pretty content with Equipoise as a sideboard answer to Chalice of the Void, Trinisphere, Leovold, Notion Thief, Spirit of the Labyrinth, Ethersworn Canonist, Thalia(s), Sanctum Prelate, etc. You'll still need answers to cards like Chains of Mephistopheles and Counterbalance though, if those pop up in your meta. Hitting lands has niche relevance because it can force your opponent to make their Marit Lage vulnerable to sorcery-speed removal, but it unfortunately doesn't stop Port from being an annoyance.

    Important to note that the functionality according to the Oracle text is a bit different than the text on the card. You should be prepared to explain this to your opponent / call a judge over to confirm. You TARGET the player, but CHOOSE which permanents phase out. This means that they only get to draw one card off Leovold and that Mother of Runes does nothing to protect them.
    Quote Originally Posted by chaosjace View Post
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  8. #5328
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    Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

    Quote Originally Posted by LordOMJ View Post
    Important to note that the functionality according to the Oracle text is a bit different than the text on the card. You should be prepared to explain this to your opponent / call a judge over to confirm. You TARGET the player, but CHOOSE which permanents phase out. This means that they only get to draw one card off Leovold and that Mother of Runes does nothing to protect them.
    Okay that is awesome. Think I'll be giving this a try.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gozerfish View Post
    Handling Enchantress Hoser Cards:

    Spirit of the Labyrinth:
    Aetherswon Cannonist:
    Leovold:

    Playing WGb,

    I am looking at the best approach for handling against these creatures. I had been trying out Abundance and it is a very interesting card as it helps filter draws as well and does not target Leovold for giving them an extra card. But is it better than Cast Out, O-Ring, or Ixalan's Binding? Spirit of the Labyrinth seems the easiest as it is 2-sided and at 1 toughness, once I get Doomwake out it is over.

    I think Ixalan Binding is slighlty better than Cast Out. I never usually have mana open to cast in response, and card draw is usually not an issue, so I don't think cycling is that great.

    For Aethersworn, I have Seal of Primordium in the sideboard which can break the artifact.

    I don't play Journey to Nowhere as I find we can handle most creatures anyway, although it is a possibility.

    Does anyone use any different tech than this?
    The biggest benefit for Cast Out for me has been casting it in response to Rishadan Port activations. The cycling is okay, it mainly lets me convince myself that it's okay to run 2 copies mainboard with combo decks everywhere. tbh I wish I could hide my own stuff under it so I stop getting destroyed by All is Dust.

    Spirit and Canonist die to GSZ for Reclamation Sage or Qasali Pridemage. Kruphix's Insight lets you get more cards through Leo but I'm kinda iffy on it.

  9. #5329
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    Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

    Wondering if there is a way to make GSZ suck less when that damn elf rears his ugly head. Grove finds any member of Clan Oblivion Ring and Wish gets Karakas or Devout Lightcaster for style points. Unfortunately I'm not sure if there's anything that plays into our strategy. I guess smashing with Chameleon Colossus, Nylea, God of the Hunt or Titania, Protector of Argoth is some kind of an option.

  10. #5330
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    Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

    Quote Originally Posted by Watersaw View Post
    Wondering if there is a way to make GSZ suck less when that damn elf rears his ugly head. Grove finds any member of Clan Oblivion Ring and Wish gets Karakas or Devout Lightcaster for style points. Unfortunately I'm not sure if there's anything that plays into our strategy. I guess smashing with Chameleon Colossus, Nylea, God of the Hunt or Titania, Protector of Argoth is some kind of an option.
    Dragonlord atarka?

  11. #5331

    Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

    Decided to play in the Worcester Classic (couldn't make both days). Good crowd, 208 tables in Legacy. Even more interesting 398 for Modern.

    Interesting things:
    a) Played 8 rounds and played 8 different decks. And I played 0 Grixis Delver decks.
    b) Last Minute Switches - Ixalan's Binding for Cast Out
    Abrupt Decay for Swords to Plowshares in the sideboard.

    Neither mattered. Ixalan's Binding worked just as well and I never drew Abrupt Decay when it was boarded in.
    c) Was not the only enchantress player in the field. Actually sat next to one and I believe there was also another one.

    Rd 1 - Elves. Terrible matchup for enchantress.

    Gm 1 - On my turn 3, I can enlighten tutor end of his turn and get my solitary. There was no turn 3 ;-)
    In: 2 E. Plague, teeg, Trinisphere, Peacekeeper. Out: O ring, I binding, 2 Leyline, Emrakul.

    Gm 2 - Decent Bd position with 2 angels from Sigill, 2 enchantress. On turn, I had enlightened tutor, but could not draw an enchantment to draw the Solitary Confinement. I did draw Gaddock Teeg and Trinisphere and was able to play both.

    All he needed in hand was a 2nd gaea's cradle, craterhoof in hand and draw a creature off the top. Unfortunately he did.

    0-1 (0-2 games)

    Rd 2 - Lands. Great Matchup for enchantress, especially the RIP version.

    Gm 1 - He mulligan to 5. And I was able to hold off with elephant grass until RIP/Helm combo.
    In: 2 Suppression Fields, 1 Pithing Needle, 1 City of solitude
    Out: 2 Doomwake, 2 Leyline, Emrakul

    Gm 2 - Pretty much the same. Kept him off and won again with RIP/helm.

    1-1 (2-2 games)

    Rd 3 - MUD with Red Splash so I will refer to it as Burnt Sienna- No idea really how this should go.

    Gm 1 - He had big engine going and he was able to get explosive start with lodestone golem and lost quickly.
    In: 2 Suppression fields, 1 Pithing Needle, Seal of Primordium, Peacekeeper.
    Out: 2 Leylines, 1 Emrakul, Urborg, 1 green sun.

    Gm 2 - Blood mooned earlier. But I had Utopia Sprawled Basics and I was able to RIP/Helm for the win after playing Humility

    Gm 3 - I made the error of failing to fetch my plains on turn 1. He was able to blood moon and then chalice on 1. He also has a creature pressuring me.
    I had Argothian in play and "cycled" a few enchantments.
    I am sitting with humility and solitary confinement in hand, but no white source. He has me pinned, but then decides to play All is Dust killing his blood moon.
    This opens up and since I am down to very low life total I have to keep blocking.

    Draw

    1-1-1 (3-3-1)

    Rd 4 - BUG Control - I have two leylines mainboard (yes, I know that's the wrong number, but I don't know what else I want to cut), so matchup ok.

    Gm 1 - have RIP/Helm in Hand, Serra Sanctum, leyline, argothian. I actually play argothian with 2 lands up hoping he will daze or FOW which he does with FOW as I am just trying to pull counterspells from the hand. It works. I get RIP down. He is hellbent when I play Helm of Obedience.

    In: 3rd Leyline, City of Solitude.
    Out: Urborg, Green Sun

    Gm 2 - He gets himself down to 2 pts through Sylvan Library, but I have no threats and he wins with a Jitte equipped TNN.

    Gm 3 - tight on ands. He wastes my first serra sanctum and my sterling grove. With enchantress and 2nd stering grove with lethal TNN on Board. Another Serra Sanctum and Forest.
    In Hand RIP, Solitrary confinement.
    1st draw: Elephant Grass (Not dead yet), play and draw again.
    2nd draw: GSZ, still not dead as I now have 2 enchantments for RIP, it holds
    3rd draw: Bayou

    Card underneath is Serra Sanctum which would have stabilized me.

    1-2-1 (4-5-1 gm)

    Rd 5 - Bant Stoneblade. - Gm 1 got into lock position early with solitary confinement and angels and he conceded.
    In: Seal of Primordium, 2 suppression fields
    Out: Emrakul, 2 Leylines.

    Gm 2: He had to mull to 5 and I suppression field locking him for the win.

    2-2-1 (6-5-1 gm)

    Rd 6 - Death and Taxes - Very close, but you are probably slightly favored. I find its usually a race between your mana and rishadan port.

    Gm 1: Mull to 6. Got wasted off dual land (no fetch) and was pinned extremely early.
    In: 2 Suppression fields, seal of primordium, 1 pithing needle, 1 peacekeeper
    Out: 2 Leyline, 1 Emrakul, 1 Ixalan's Binding (this will prove to be a mistake game 3), Uborg

    Gm 2: With some issues in Board sweepers and judge calls, eventually I was able to RIP/Helm.

    Gm 3: Early I was near death and I had to pitch the Doomwake Giant to survive.
    We eventually got to a huge board state where I had drawn my entire library but I had Solitary Confinement out, so I did not Have to draw.
    He had a Gideon of the Trials emblem, and a huge ground board so we had a stall.

    draw

    2-2-2 (7-6-2)

    Rd 7 - BUG Delver Gm 1: He didn't realize how RIP/Helm combo'd and I won.
    Dont remember sideboarding

    Gm 2: took some pecks\hits from delver but was able to land solitary confinement. I was able to clean up the board with doomwake for the win.

    3-2-2 (9-6-2)

    Rd 8 - Miracles Yes, it still exists.
    Gm 1: Only 1 Enchantress and 1 white source so I couldn't both enlighten tutor and play solitary., early terminus and eventually got Jaced
    Sideboard: City of Solitude, Abrupt Decay
    Out: Uborg, Doomwake

    Gm 2: Had to mulligan to 5 and was pinned by counterbalance.

    3-3-2 (9-8-2)

    As you can see, I was mediocre all the way through.

  12. #5332

    Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

    Pretty devastated looking through the Dominaria leaks and while there's an entire theme of "saga" enchantments none of them seem playable to me. Made even worse by the fact there's a (playable?) hate artifact that looks completely devastating to us.


  13. #5333
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    Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

    Yup, after Leovold it's now pretty clear our strategy is being nuked

    Rip-helm is less affected by this though, as it can win more reliably without Sanctum online and with only casting 1 spell a turn. Seems easier to achieve vs this than Emrakul mana or winning with Words of Wind...

    Let's hope this doesn't catch on as a sb card! But especially the first weeks after release it will be experimented with a lot.

  14. #5334
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    Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

    Quote Originally Posted by simdude View Post
    Pretty devastated looking through the Dominaria leaks and while there's an entire theme of "saga" enchantments none of them seem playable to me. Made even worse by the fact there's a (playable?) hate artifact that looks completely devastating to us.

    Keep those 4 Orings in the 75 at all times ;) Maybe look for 2 slots for Banishing Light to bring the exiles up to 6, and GW will beat this just fine.

    In all honesty though, this may be a sideboard card GW helm may want against combo in place of Sphere of Resistance, but that may be a stretch.

    Edit: FYI - Wild Growth, and Utopia Sprawled lands are unaffected by the mana ability of the artifact as the mana comes from the enchantment.

  15. #5335

    Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

    Quote Originally Posted by simdude View Post
    Pretty devastated looking through the Dominaria leaks and while there's an entire theme of "saga" enchantments none of them seem playable to me. Made even worse by the fact there's a (playable?) hate artifact that looks completely devastating to us.

    wizards lol

  16. #5336
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    Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

    Quote Originally Posted by simdude View Post
    Pretty devastated looking through the Dominaria leaks and while there's an entire theme of "saga" enchantments none of them seem playable to me. Made even worse by the fact there's a (playable?) hate artifact that looks completely devastating to us.

    I wouldn't worry overmuch about this card, I don't think it will be played at all outside some initial hype. Unless I'm missing something in my analysis, this would only be maindecked by stompy style decks. I don't think they would play it because it turns their ancient tombs, city of traitors, and eldrazi temples into wastes AND this doesn't tax the first spell played per turn. I also think that no blue decks would want it in the SB because it restricts cantripping and countermagic, and they'd rather interact on the stack.

    I'd much rather play against this than any other hate permanent, including thalia, 3ball, thorn of amethyst, sphere of resistance, Leovold, and ethersworn canonist. Against Thalia, playing 2 1cmc enchantments costs 4 mana. Against this it's only 3 mana. At the 3rd spell per turn it equalizes in term of taxation. If you are really worried, play pridemage or rec sage in the board or something.

  17. #5337
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    Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

    Tend to agree with the_dingo. The most likely deck to play it would be something like Goblins, since it does double duty against storm and eldrazi. But since it doesn't shut down Wild Growth it's not even that scary.
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  18. #5338
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    Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

    Quote Originally Posted by SpatulaOfTheAges View Post
    Tend to agree with the_dingo. The most likely deck to play it would be something like Goblins, since it does double duty against storm and eldrazi. But since it doesn't shut down Wild Growth it's not even that scary.
    I still think this is worth testing that this could be our combo hate of choice. I had landed on Sphere of Resistance to this point, and would board it in against Elves, and Infect to some success as well.

    Now that Infect's pumps would "storm tax", and Cradle would be turned off in Elves + "storm tax" this could tip those MU's to favorable from not great, and not hurt the original decks that Sphere of Resistance was placed in the board to hate against.

    We are not hurt as bad with this as the decks we board it in against since the rest of our deck is hate as well (prison.)

  19. #5339
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    Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

    A friend of mine told me about the new artifact, I got really worried, but it looks like our mana production is still fine.
    We do have O-ring effects so I am not concerned to be honest (always uses the O-ring as an excuse )

    Quote Originally Posted by quvinick View Post
    Punishing Enchantress? Got a list? :D
    My apologies, I do not come to the forums often. If you are still interested:


    1 Karakas
    4 Windswept Heath
    3 Grove of the Burnwillows
    1 Savannah
    1 Taiga
    8 Forest
    1 Plain
    2 Serra's Sanctum

    3 Punishing Fire

    4 Wild Growth
    4 Utopia Sprawl

    3 Ixalan's Binding

    4 Enchantress's Presence
    4 Argothian Enchantress
    4 Green Sun's Zenith

    3 Sterling Grove
    4 Blood Sun

    3 Solitary Confinement
    1 Moat

    1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
    1 Emrakul, the Eons Torn

    //Sideboard
    1 Gaddock Teeg
    4 Leyline of Sanctity
    3 Pithing Needle
    3 Graffdigger's cage
    3 Choke
    1 Stony Silence

    EDIT: It's not bad, I didn't really give it that long of a try, P.Fire recur, helps a bit with confinement out, ive never had the luxury of having 2 going though, would be fun I can imagine.
    However, I went back to my traditional GWr Enchantress.
    Legacy: GWR Enchantress (2010-Current)
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  20. #5340

    Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

    Quote Originally Posted by simdude View Post
    Pretty devastated looking through the Dominaria leaks and while there's an entire theme of "saga" enchantments none of them seem playable to me. Made even worse by the fact there's a (playable?) hate artifact that looks completely devastating to us.

    I was analyzing this card, its really good, but its also extremely awkward to play it in legacy. For delver decks it costs double the mana you want it to, for control decks it attacks your cantrips, for sol lands decks it looks great, but it slows SOOO much and doesn't give a game winning board state like moon stompy does with blood moon, it will slow moon stompy if they play this without it being close to the t1 blood moon. Eldrazi will probably not touch this, it makes your eldrazi so horrible, yeah probably only goblins and lands... I guess that's it.

    Against elves its only good when you want to stop it from going off early, control decks usually can do this without this card, but in the grindy state of the game the card does very little to prevent card advantage. Vs Storm its very good, but not much different from thalia or other taxing artifacts, it taxes less the cantrips, but its basically impossible to go off with it. Since we come from under the sanctum with our enchantments hahah, we are probably not considered when they think what mu's is this good at.

    I don't think we need to worry about it, its too fringe and almost no decks will want it, I only found it can be good in lands and goblins, can't think of another deck it would fit.

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