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Thread: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

  1. #5301

    Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fjaulnir View Post
    So, what about this one?

    https://twitter.com/EliShffrn/status/948964062074818561



    On the one hand it's not as powerful as Blood Moon - it screws with their fetches, but not with their duals already in play. So it seems merely a SB card vs Death n Taxes and Lands/Dark Depths at best.
    On the other hand, it leaves Serra's Sanctum intact...

    I think this is a real card. The fact it cantrips on its own can't be overlooked. I feel like this slots into a shell that already is playing some number of Blood Moon main deck or sideboard. Off the top of my head if I try to list common matchups where I'd prefer to have this over a Blood Moon only D&T and Lands really come to mind. It's an easy make sure to have one for the binder in case the wind ever blows in the right direction for it to me.

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    Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

    Quote Originally Posted by simdude View Post
    I think this is a real card. The fact it cantrips on its own can't be overlooked. I feel like this slots into a shell that already is playing some number of Blood Moon main deck or sideboard. Off the top of my head if I try to list common matchups where I'd prefer to have this over a Blood Moon only D&T and Lands really come to mind. It's an easy make sure to have one for the binder in case the wind ever blows in the right direction for it to me.
    If anything you play it alongside Suppression Field to improve the chance of slowing their manabase to a crawl (hell, maybe you go HAM and throw in some number of Root Maze). Running these kind of cards is pretty miserable for your own deck, might have to jump through a few hoops to make it work.

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    Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fjaulnir View Post
    So, what about this one?

    https://twitter.com/EliShffrn/status/948964062074818561



    On the one hand it's not as powerful as Blood Moon - it screws with their fetches, but not with their duals already in play. So it seems merely a SB card vs Death n Taxes and Lands/Dark Depths at best.
    On the other hand, it leaves Serra's Sanctum intact...
    Getting a play set :P
    I actually have blood moons main decked, so thats going to my sideboard. ^_^
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    Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

    Hard to know what its place is, but it's an interesting card.

    It deals with Lands, which is already a very positive match-up. Against DnT, it being one mana more and in a worse color than Suppression Field makes it not very attractive.

    Against everything else it shuts down fetch-lands, but not until turn 2 or 3. Not useless because it still shuts off shuffling and dramatically reduces their dig, but what would you cut for that incremental advantage + a card?

    Still, in a very blue heavy meta, maybe one of these maindeck, paired with a maindeck Choke would be a good call.
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  5. #5305

    Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

    New to Enchantress, is a standard build still alright in a Grixis Delver/Lands/D&T meta or should I just build GW Opal Wave instead? Likewise, I found this build online and was curious whether running the Living Wish package was worth it (especially with cards like Glacial Chasm in the sideboard).

  6. #5306
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    Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

    Welcome to the archetype. I'd put those match-ups about 55/70/55 with the Witch House, the Living Wish build you linked. My understanding is that one of the downsides of the Opal Wave build is a significant hit to the Death and Taxes matchup but I'll let someone who specializes in that version expand.

    A standard list will probably do alright against that meta as well, though my testing with traditional Solitaire was running lower numbers against both Death and Taxes and Delver, two matchups where Doomwake Giant especially shines. The Living Wishes are not as amazing versus DnT due to mana cramping, though being able to grab Karakas and artifact/enchment removal can win games.

    When you mention Glacial Chasm, are you talking about in combination with Solemnity?
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  7. #5307

    Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

    Quote Originally Posted by SpatulaOfTheAges View Post
    When you mention Glacial Chasm, are you talking about in combination with Solemnity?
    Yep. This is the current version of the list I'm testing.

    20 Lands
    1 Bayou
    2 Savannah
    2 Serra's Sanctum
    11 Forest
    2 Windswept Heath
    2 Wooded Foothills

    3 Argothian Enchantress
    2 Doomwake Giant

    3 Green Sun's Zenith
    4 Living Wish

    4 Abundant Growth
    4 Elephant Grass
    4 Enchantress's Presence
    1 Gaea's Touch
    2 Ground Seal
    1 Ixalan's Binding
    2 Mirri's Guile
    2 Solemnity
    4 Utopia Sprawl
    4 Wild Groth

    SB:
    1 Glacial Chasm
    1 Dark Depths
    1 Karakas
    1 Argothian Enchantress
    1 Doomwake Giant
    1 Spaghetti Monster
    1 Gaddock Teeg
    1 Phyrexian Revoker
    1 Reclamation Sage
    1 Choke
    2 Carpet of Flowers
    1 Rest in Peace
    2 Solitary Confinement

    I'm not sure what the purpose is of Peregine Drake or Leafcrown Dryad from the old build. I'm thinking Leafcrown Dryad is to block a delver? Likewise, I'm not sure whether Abundant Growth should be in the main or not.

  8. #5308
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    Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

    I like the list, I actually haven't tested Mirri's Guile in this version but I think it's probably a good call. I'm actually trying to find additional slots right now for Explorations/Gaea's Touch, I see you're only running the 1x Touch. I've found getting the extra lands in play to be pretty important in most games.

    Peregrine Drake would most likely just be another Serra's Sanctum if I had the money for another copy. But the function is to generate mana, to basically allow you to combo off a turn earlier than you would without it.

    Leafcrown Dryad is primarily for Delver and Death and Taxes, though I do bring them in against Czech Pile because they counter edict-effects and can swing into planeswalkers that are undefended. Against Delver is the main application, but being unaffected by Thalia and trading with Flickerwisp is pretty good too. I'm not sure she's the most effective use of multiple sideboard slots, but having 1 is also useful just as a way to turn Living Wish into card-draw with your Enchantresses.

    Abundant Growth is working great for me. It's an alternate turn 1 play, it helps dig by itself, which isn't bad with a higher threat density, and it's very effective once you begin piling up Enchantresses. It also allows for a more stable mana base while still avoiding Wasteland vulnerability.

    Do you still find Emrakul necessary on top of Dark Depths?

    ---

    I've finally gotten around to testing Courser of Kruphix as a 1x in the MD (with 3x Exploration) and really liking it. The lifegain is a nice boost, the body is a reasonable blocker, and the ability is really critical, especially when in Solitary Confinement lock. I think the argument about avoiding creature removal is less important than the benefit we get out of Eidolon, Giant and potentially Courser, and having another option for GSZ is also nice.
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  9. #5309

    Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

    Quote Originally Posted by SpatulaOfTheAges View Post
    I like the list, I actually haven't tested Mirri's Guile in this version but I think it's probably a good call. I'm actually trying to find additional slots right now for Explorations/Gaea's Touch, I see you're only running the 1x Touch. I've found getting the extra lands in play to be pretty important in most games.
    The problem I have with Gaea's Touch is I'm not sure how relevant the ability is with only running 20 lands.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpatulaOfTheAges View Post
    Leafcrown Dryad is primarily for Delver and Death and Taxes, though I do bring them in against Czech Pile because they counter edict-effects and can swing into planeswalkers that are undefended. Against Delver is the main application, but being unaffected by Thalia and trading with Flickerwisp is pretty good too. I'm not sure she's the most effective use of multiple sideboard slots, but having 1 is also useful just as a way to turn Living Wish into card-draw with your Enchantresses.
    Makes sense, I'm going to leave one in the board just to test it. I like the idea of having it as card-draw at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpatulaOfTheAges View Post
    Do you still find Emrakul necessary on top of Dark Depths?
    I just like having more than 1 win condition. The problem with Dark Depths is that it can get wastelanded or stifle'd. I guess that's probably a sign I shouldn't be trying the combo, but I just really wanted to test Solemnity with Elephant Grass. Either way, I usually go for Dark Depths first as it requires fewer mana. The only time where I didn't go for Dark Depths is when my infect opponent had open green mana game two.

    I also didn't realize you're the creator of the deck until yesterday. Are you, by chance, also the person who made top 8 of the tournament I posted?

  10. #5310
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    Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

    Quote Originally Posted by hamie96 View Post
    The problem I have with Gaea's Touch is I'm not sure how relevant the ability is with only running 20 lands.
    You don't have as consistent a turn 1/turn 2 accel rate with them as you do with Lands types decks, but it does happen. Touch also lets you trade some turn 2s for explosive turn 3s. But their value once you've landed an enchantress is incredible, giving you the acceleration you need to make up for the fact that our first two turns are rather slow and our curve is relatively mana intensive.

    I just like having more than 1 win condition. The problem with Dark Depths is that it can get wastelanded or stifle'd. I guess that's probably a sign I shouldn't be trying the combo, but I just really wanted to test Solemnity with Elephant Grass. Either way, I usually go for Dark Depths first as it requires fewer mana. The only time where I didn't go for Dark Depths is when my infect opponent had open green mana game two.
    Hmm. Fair enough I suppose, although I've won a fair number of games with just Doomwake Giant. It would be good to know how your testing goes though, since Living Wish does naturally pair with Depths. Would it be worth also having a slot for Thespian's Stage(which can also generate mana by copying Sanctum, or utility like Karakas or even Azcanta) or Hexmage(which is awkwardly costed but kills Planeswalkers)?

    I also didn't realize you're the creator of the deck until yesterday. Are you, by chance, also the person who made top 8 of the tournament I posted?
    Yeah that was my list. That variant is primarily being worked on in this thread by the way, http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...t-it-turns-out)
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  11. #5311

    Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

    What are the good and bad matchups right now?

  12. #5312
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    Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

    Quote Originally Posted by SpatulaOfTheAges View Post
    You don't have as consistent a turn 1/turn 2 accel rate with them as you do with Lands types decks, but it does happen. Touch also lets you trade some turn 2s for explosive turn 3s. But their value once you've landed an enchantress is incredible, giving you the acceleration you need to make up for the fact that our first two turns are rather slow and our curve is relatively mana intensive.
    This. Gaea's Touch often functions like a ritual that replaces itself (play > activate > sac nets 1 Green mana, if you have a Sanctum online you get an extra White too). Late game it functions similar to Wild Growth in that you get "free" draw triggers, but it has more potential to produce mana as you inevitably draw excess Forests.
    EDIT: this assumes you're being aggressive and blowing it the turn it comes down, but being able to bank 2 Green for the next turn can be pretty sweet

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    Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

    Quote Originally Posted by kinda View Post
    What are the good and bad matchups right now?
    So it depends a bit on your build of course, but I'll assume you mean a more traditional Solitaire approach;

    Good matchups: mainly lands/Dark Depths combo. Burn and Eldrazi Stompy probably? I hadn't tested those matchups too much.

    Bad matchups: Combo decks and anything running Leovold. Probably Death and Taxes depending on their build - if they're MDing Spirit of the Labyrinth on top of their disruption I don't think Solitaire has much it can do.

    Also I don't think Delver is all that great a matchup for Solitaire atm.
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  14. #5314

    Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

    Hey dudes, I've been thinking about ways to tune Enchantress to the current meta and I'd like to hear your thoughts on a GWbr build that looks kinda like this:

    Main:

    4x Argothian Enchantress
    1x Bayou
    1x Blood Moon
    1x Cast Out
    1x Doomwake Giant
    1x Eidolon of Blossoms
    4x Elephant Grass
    1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    4x Enchantress's Presence
    6x Forest
    2x Green Sun's Zenith
    2x Mirri's Guile
    1x Nahiri, the Harbinger
    1x Oath of Chandra
    2x Plains
    2x Replenish
    2x Serra's Sanctum
    3x Solitary Confinement
    3x Sterling Grove
    2x Sylvan Library
    1x Taiga
    4x Utopia Sprawl
    4x Wild Growth
    4x Windswept Heath
    2x Wooded Foothills
    1x Words of War

    Side:

    1x Blood Moon
    4x Cabal Therapy
    1x Engineered Plague
    1x Humility
    4x Leyline of Sanctity
    4x Leyline of the Void

    Justifications:

    I chose black and red as splash colors because I don't think straight GW has enough power to combat all of the creatures running around in decks these days, though the builds with Courser and Exploration and/or Gaea's Touch look interesting and fun. With Black, you get Doomwake and Engineered Plague, but I also think that Cabal Therapy could really be a card for us. People have played Duress and Thoughtseize before, and Therapy is just as good. It might depend on whether you think saccing Argothian to Therapy is a smart play or an incredibly stupid one. If it is workable, then it would be smart to play one of the best cards at protecting combo ever printed. I do think it would be too far to add probe, though. I chose Red purely for the hate. I think Blood Moon kills in this meta. I also think that we might be sleeping on Oath of Chandra a little bit. It would be fair to ask "Why are you playing this over Journey to Nowhere?", to which I would answer that the card has corner case upsides in this build. Opponents can get their creature back with Journey, which is not the case with Oath, and there is minor synergy with the singleton copy of Nahiri. Plus, I figure if people get away with playing Abrade, Enchantress can get away with playing Abrade that cantrips. There are also arguments for Seal of Fire over Oath, but Oath kills Leovold, which is half the reason I chose it. Speaking of killing Leovold, the other reason I chose red was for the old Words of War combo. Rather than use it as a finisher, I imagine it would work well as a creature control tool, but my big question is if you can still use the replacement effects with the Sylvan Library synergy when Leovold is up. If not, I'd probably cut both and switch over to something else.

    Everything else is mostly stock. I like the 18 lands, but I've seen that most prefer 19-20, which is understandable. I also just can't bring myself to run 3-4 Green Sun's Zenith, even though it's probably optimal.

    I was really tempted to include Imminent Doom, which I think could also be a card, but I decided it wasn't better than Nahiri or Oath. Plus, I don't have a six-drop for that sweet, janky one-turn 6 card kill combo. My current build is RIP/helm, but I don't think rip/helm is as good as before, so I'm looking into different builds I could pivot too.

    What do you guys think?

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    Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

    I'm just running by and can't fully reply, but you can WoWhatever with Sylvan and a Leovold out as long as you replace ALL the draws. Once you draw a card, Leovold kicks in and you won't have additional draws to replace.
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  16. #5316

    Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

    Quote Originally Posted by quvinick View Post
    Hey dudes, I've been thinking about ways to tune Enchantress to the current meta and I'd like to hear your thoughts on a GWbr build that looks kinda like this:

    Main:

    4x Argothian Enchantress
    1x Bayou
    1x Blood Moon
    1x Cast Out
    1x Doomwake Giant
    1x Eidolon of Blossoms
    4x Elephant Grass
    1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    4x Enchantress's Presence
    6x Forest
    2x Green Sun's Zenith
    2x Mirri's Guile
    1x Nahiri, the Harbinger
    1x Oath of Chandra
    2x Plains
    2x Replenish
    2x Serra's Sanctum
    3x Solitary Confinement
    3x Sterling Grove
    2x Sylvan Library
    1x Taiga
    4x Utopia Sprawl
    4x Wild Growth
    4x Windswept Heath
    2x Wooded Foothills
    1x Words of War

    Side:

    1x Blood Moon
    4x Cabal Therapy
    1x Engineered Plague
    1x Humility
    4x Leyline of Sanctity
    4x Leyline of the Void

    Justifications:

    I chose black and red as splash colors because I don't think straight GW has enough power to combat all of the creatures running around in decks these days, though the builds with Courser and Exploration and/or Gaea's Touch look interesting and fun. With Black, you get Doomwake and Engineered Plague, but I also think that Cabal Therapy could really be a card for us. People have played Duress and Thoughtseize before, and Therapy is just as good. It might depend on whether you think saccing Argothian to Therapy is a smart play or an incredibly stupid one. If it is workable, then it would be smart to play one of the best cards at protecting combo ever printed. I do think it would be too far to add probe, though. I chose Red purely for the hate. I think Blood Moon kills in this meta. I also think that we might be sleeping on Oath of Chandra a little bit. It would be fair to ask "Why are you playing this over Journey to Nowhere?", to which I would answer that the card has corner case upsides in this build. Opponents can get their creature back with Journey, which is not the case with Oath, and there is minor synergy with the singleton copy of Nahiri. Plus, I figure if people get away with playing Abrade, Enchantress can get away with playing Abrade that cantrips. There are also arguments for Seal of Fire over Oath, but Oath kills Leovold, which is half the reason I chose it. Speaking of killing Leovold, the other reason I chose red was for the old Words of War combo. Rather than use it as a finisher, I imagine it would work well as a creature control tool, but my big question is if you can still use the replacement effects with the Sylvan Library synergy when Leovold is up. If not, I'd probably cut both and switch over to something else.

    Everything else is mostly stock. I like the 18 lands, but I've seen that most prefer 19-20, which is understandable. I also just can't bring myself to run 3-4 Green Sun's Zenith, even though it's probably optimal.

    I was really tempted to include Imminent Doom, which I think could also be a card, but I decided it wasn't better than Nahiri or Oath. Plus, I don't have a six-drop for that sweet, janky one-turn 6 card kill combo. My current build is RIP/helm, but I don't think rip/helm is as good as before, so I'm looking into different builds I could pivot too.

    What do you guys think?
    I originally played with both the red\black splash and found it a bit "clunky". I switched over to the Black Splash. However, this was before Leovold and I think having replacement effects are now good.
    Never tried Nahiri, but I know people have.
    I am thinking Ixalan's Binding is actually superior to Cast Out. I know you can "cycle", but let's face facts, card draw is not usually the problem for Enchantress. This can also stop them replaying another Leovold.
    I like the RIP\Helm (2/1) build not just for the Win Con, but it also hoses Deathrite, Tarmagoyf, Snapcaster, Past in Flames, Life of the Loam, the Entire Dredge deck.
    I don't play Eidolon, but if you are playing Replenish and not RIP, it definitely makes sense since it is on the ETB trigger not on cast.
    If I am going to sideboard a black discard, I think either Duress or Thoughtseize are much better. You don't really have creatures to sacrifice as they are your draw engine or win con. If you are worried about life total play Duress, if you want more flexibility play Thoughtseize. I would say 90% of the things you are worried about are Non-Creature spells.
    I have 20 lands, but noticed in some matchups I will actually go down to 19.

  17. #5317

    Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

    @Spatula: Oh good, so WoWar does work! That explanation makes sense, thanks.

    @Gozer: thanks for the advice! The suggestion of Ixalan's Binding is good. I actually like Cast Out for the flash more than anything, but when it comes to Oblivion Rings that dodge decay both seem viable. RIP/helm does have a lot of power, I just don't think it is as helpful as it good be. I like it against Shaman decks, as you have pointed out, but I feel it is either too slow or too restrictive in most other matchups. It does nothing against Reanimator, for example, which has grown in this meta. This is why I proposed 4x Leyline of the Void in the sideboard, as a faster card to hate out graveyard decks. It's also probably correct to switch Cabal Therapy with Thoughtseize, though I would like to at least try a couple of games with Therapy. Between Duress and Thoughtseize I would choose Thoughtseize, as it can hit creatures, and I think we're in the throngs of a creature meta right now. You mentioned that in some matchups you go down to 19 lands, what matchups are those?

    Just in general, what does everyone think of Oath of Chandra? I feel like there are a lot of enchantments that could be played around with to test viability and we aught to discuss them a bit more. I just love brainstorming builds for this deck. Thanks again for the feedback.

  18. #5318
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    Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

    Quote Originally Posted by SpatulaOfTheAges View Post
    So it depends a bit on your build of course, but I'll assume you mean a more traditional Solitaire approach;

    Good matchups: mainly lands/Dark Depths combo. Burn and Eldrazi Stompy probably? I hadn't tested those matchups too much.

    Bad matchups: Combo decks and anything running Leovold. Probably Death and Taxes depending on their build - if they're MDing Spirit of the Labyrinth on top of their disruption I don't think Solitaire has much it can do.
    Eldrazi stompy tends to run 2 All is dust in their sideboard which is one of the most effective cards that ppl can bring in terms of hate.

    DnT can also be tricky if they stick a prelate on 3. I noticed while playtesting vs my mate that theres not much I can do about it. Its the main reason why I want to have 1-2 copies of Cast out in case this happens. .

    Delver aint to bad, aside the leovold, and hand disruption with thoughtseizes, the matchup feels prettty even. The only problem is if their spot on with their tempo plan. T1 delver, your turn daze, T2 flip delver, thoughtseize your enchantress effect and keep applying pressure. That said, if you can stick even a single grass, they need to slow down their game plan quite a bit. Delvers want to tap out every turn and keep applying pressure, if you can break their momentum then you already won half the battle as its hard for them to do anything relevant once your stuff has resolved. (aside Leovold ofc which is why I run 3 removal enchantments and a karakas.)
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  19. #5319
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    Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

    Quote Originally Posted by quvinick View Post
    Just in general, what does everyone think of Oath of Chandra? I feel like there are a lot of enchantments that could be played around with to test viability and we aught to discuss them a bit more. I just love brainstorming builds for this deck. Thanks again for the feedback.
    I have not run Oath of Chandra but, i've run similar effect such as Seal of Fire. Which is actually pretty nice, it gave me a lot of interaction to a lot of things, but also weakening a few as i used it to replace grass.

    I am currently on a brew with Grove of the Burnwillows, Punishing Fire (replaced grass), and Blood Sun in the MD, and a 1-off Granger Guildmage in the sideboard.
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  20. #5320

    Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

    Quote Originally Posted by Claymore1 View Post

    I am currently on a brew with Grove of the Burnwillows, Punishing Fire (replaced grass), and Blood Sun in the MD, and a 1-off Granger Guildmage in the sideboard.
    Punishing Enchantress? Got a list? :D

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