[Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

[anonymos]

Oblivion Ring does eat it. Colored spells is what it has protection from. It is a triggered ability, not the spell itself that targets the Emrakul.

Dovescape would also throw a monkey wrench in your plan the same way.

[wcm8]

Enchantress mirror matches are really stupid games, and depending where you are in a tournament, you should probably just ID.

[Gibbie_X]

Oblivion Ring does eat it. Colored spells is what it has protection from. It is a triggered ability, not the spell itself that targets the Emrakul.

Dovescape would also throw a monkey wrench in your plan the same way.

Ofcourse, if you are a bad player and aren't sitting behind a Confinement. Aura really is the card that makes the mirror.

ID? why?

[dontbiteitholmes]

I think he's saying ID because if both players are good game 1 will end with one player drawing themselves out and g2 & g3 will be decided by either sb/mirror match skill or who draws themselves out first. I'd have to say anyone who MD's mirror match hate for Enchantress either is in a really warped meta or I'm not going to have to worry about facing in the mirror after round 3 if you catch my drift. I've given the mirror match much thought though. I don't SB specifically for the mirror but I know how to use my sb to the best of it's abilities in the mirror. I wouldn't ID most likely just because I'd expect myself to win.

[wcm8]

The mirror match really comes down to deck choice. A choice that is optimized for consistency and speed vs. most other types of decks will typically lose to an [otherwise arguably inferior] build that has more toolbox answers. For example, I think Aura of Silence is a great sideboard card, but I don't think it should be in the main deck. However, if your mirror opponent has that in there and gets it out earlier enough, you are likely to lose simply to that one card. Or perhaps they are packing more O Rings or something.

As holmes said, you'd have to be in a pretty warped meta for Enchantress to be considered a likely or common matchup. If you know your opponent is playing it before game one, IDing might be better overall than risking a loss. This isn't a typical mirror match where playing skill is the main deciding factor, it's going to come down more to deck construction in my opinion.

[dontbiteitholmes]

The mirror match really comes down to deck choice. A choice that is optimized for consistency and speed vs. most other types of decks will typically lose to an [otherwise arguably inferior] build that has more toolbox answers. For example, I think Aura of Silence is a great sideboard card, but I don't think it should be in the main deck. However, if your mirror opponent has that in there and gets it out earlier enough, you are likely to lose simply to that one card. Or perhaps they are packing more O Rings or something.

As holmes said, you'd have to be in a pretty warped meta for Enchantress to be considered a likely or common matchup. If you know your opponent is playing it before game one, IDing might be better overall than risking a loss. This isn't a typical mirror match where playing skill is the main deciding factor, it's going to come down more to deck construction in my opinion.

At the same time if one person is not familiar at all with the factors that decide the mirror match a skillful opponent could easily outplay them and force the G1 loss. Unless one person runs cards that I would usually consider subobtimal card choices MD (example Holistic Wisdom, Wheel of Sun and Moon, Dovescape) game 1 really is a hellish war of second guessing yourself and holding back or going balls out to combo out before the other player can set up a lock. Most likely G1 would be decided by several play errors or bad guesses in the majority of matches and end either in a draw on time or with not enough time left for g2.

[JrGman2004]

Re: cool things, to some extent that's how the whole deck is. You have a rigid skeleton that works, and then around 8-10 "cool" slots to play around with based on your meta. I mean there was someone that was playing Concordant Crossroads, and that seems far more situational than Land Tax and more of a win-more type of card.

That would be me that runs Concordant Crossroads. It's my one piece of super secret tech... ;) Actually... I have a very good reason for running it. Because I was doing so well in my local meta, I was getting hated against very hard in the sideboards. Any deck that could run it, was running Fracturing Gust, though strangely no one was running Reverent Silence. Go figure. Anyways... their strategy was usually to wait until I was set up and had a bunch of stuff on the board, meanwhile building up their board while I had them locked down. Then when I dropped Sigil of the Empty Throne and made a bunch of tokens, they would hit me on their turn and gain a ton of life and swing in and take me out. So I looked for a way to win the turn I go off and make my angels, and Concordant Crossroads was one of those ways to win the turn I go off. It's not really a "win-more" card... it's a "win-now" card... BTW, it has won me no less than 3 rounds between two different SCG Open events, including one game where we went to turns and I won on the very last turn by fetching up the Crossroads. Otherwise I would have tied that round.

Why is it that we have to completely brokenly abuse Land Tax before ordaining that it should be played in Enchantress? Is O.Ring broken? How about Ground Seal? Sure, in certain matches it is... but we run stuff that is utility that's not broken. Some people run Exploration, is that broken? I think Land Tax as a 1 of can be a great T1 play. It let's you keep a 2 land hand that you would normally pitch. Even if it activates once, it's done it's job. I've also had times where it would have saved my ass because I had to drop an early Confinement before being completely set up.

Case in point where it could have been helpful. I was playing against Todd Anderson in Atlanta (thus why he complained about Moat and Solitary Confinement in his article on SCG) and he was playing Goblins. 3rd game, he gets off to a fast start and I have to drop the Solitary with 2 draw effects and 2 cards left in my hand. I was stuck at 3 lands with a Wild Growth on one. If I had had a Land Tax, it would have made me sweat a LOT less. 3 turns in a row, I played an enchantment, drew my two cards and pass turn because I kept drawing 3 drop and greater enchantments, so I could never play 2 on the same turn to get ahead. If I had drawn 2 lands in any of those draws, I would have been sunk. But if I had had a Land Tax, I would have gotten 3 cards into my hand and discarded a land to Solitary and still had 2 enchantments and 2 lands in my hand. I would have been in a much better position.

Sure, it's not broken and it can't be abused too badly... but, it's still a card that can be really helpful when you see it.



Also, to the people talking about Emrakul eating an ORing. Does it matter a whole lot? It's the whole "Tarmogoyf dies to Swords" argument... it's ridiculous. How good of a position is your opponent going to be after you've swung in for 15 and he had to sacrafice 6 permanents? How many decks are going to have 3 lands left to play that ORing? Not many, I must say.

Also, if you have a Karrakas on board, game over. Cast Emrakul, take extra turn, swing, bounce, replay, swing again, game.

[wcm8]

Yeah Emrakul wins games, but then so does having 15 mana (usually). The advantage of other win conditions is that they have utility earlier in the game. I mean I do think it'd be fun to win with Eldrazi, but from a purely competitive standpoint, this is danger of cool things. Has anybody actually tested this out in a tournament environment?

Advantages:
-basically will win you the game
-can typically get you out of stall locks, making tie rounds into wins
-the only typical legacy answer to it is Oblivion Ring and Diabolic Edict (in which case you'd typically have an Enchantress out)
-Completely out of left field. You aren't cheating it into play. Could be a good sideboard card in this regard.

Disadvantages:
-15 mana. Come on. Horrible, horrible top deck.
-Other win cons can really help out earlier in the game.

[NihilObstat]

Hi guys I haven't read the whole thread because I don't play the deck, but a friend does.

I've read that some people think it's stupid to run MD aura of silence, but I have seen my friend gain 3 rounds, the first game, against Belcher thanks to running that card MD. Going the usual land + growth / Mox or both, to sterling grove, tutoring, win. Turn 3 should usually be enough.

It also works against Mirror, although it is not 100% necessary, but increases your chances or makes winning easy.

Makes Stax easier, and I mean, the thing is she runs it because it's only 1 card, it's destroy effect is always good, and it's +2 effects can sometimes be awesome, and what could that single slot be? Another oblivion?

Enchantress is about versatility and being able to do anything, right ??

[dontbiteitholmes]

That would be me that runs Concordant Crossroads. It's my one piece of super secret tech... ;) Actually... I have a very good reason for running it. Because I was doing so well in my local meta, I was getting hated against very hard in the sideboards. Any deck that could run it, was running Fracturing Gust, though strangely no one was running Reverent Silence. Go figure. Anyways... their strategy was usually to wait until I was set up and had a bunch of stuff on the board, meanwhile building up their board while I had them locked down. Then when I dropped Sigil of the Empty Throne and made a bunch of tokens, they would hit me on their turn and gain a ton of life and swing in and take me out. So I looked for a way to win the turn I go off and make my angels, and Concordant Crossroads was one of those ways to win the turn I go off. It's not really a "win-more" card... it's a "win-now" card... BTW, it has won me no less than 3 rounds between two different SCG Open events, including one game where we went to turns and I won on the very last turn by fetching up the Crossroads. Otherwise I would have tied that round.

Why is it that we have to completely brokenly abuse Land Tax before ordaining that it should be played in Enchantress? Is O.Ring broken? How about Ground Seal? Sure, in certain matches it is... but we run stuff that is utility that's not broken. Some people run Exploration, is that broken? I think Land Tax as a 1 of can be a great T1 play. It let's you keep a 2 land hand that you would normally pitch. Even if it activates once, it's done it's job. I've also had times where it would have saved my ass because I had to drop an early Confinement before being completely set up.

Case in point where it could have been helpful. I was playing against Todd Anderson in Atlanta (thus why he complained about Moat and Solitary Confinement in his article on SCG) and he was playing Goblins. 3rd game, he gets off to a fast start and I have to drop the Solitary with 2 draw effects and 2 cards left in my hand. I was stuck at 3 lands with a Wild Growth on one. If I had had a Land Tax, it would have made me sweat a LOT less. 3 turns in a row, I played an enchantment, drew my two cards and pass turn because I kept drawing 3 drop and greater enchantments, so I could never play 2 on the same turn to get ahead. If I had drawn 2 lands in any of those draws, I would have been sunk. But if I had had a Land Tax, I would have gotten 3 cards into my hand and discarded a land to Solitary and still had 2 enchantments and 2 lands in my hand. I would have been in a much better position.

Sure, it's not broken and it can't be abused too badly... but, it's still a card that can be really helpful when you see it.

Also, to the people talking about Emrakul eating an ORing. Does it matter a whole lot? It's the whole "Tarmogoyf dies to Swords" argument... it's ridiculous. How good of a position is your opponent going to be after you've swung in for 15 and he had to sacrafice 6 permanents? How many decks are going to have 3 lands left to play that ORing? Not many, I must say.

Also, if you have a Karrakas on board, game over. Cast Emrakul, take extra turn, swing, bounce, replay, swing again, game.

So what your saying is you started running Crossroads MD because the people at your local shop fail super hard at both playing and building Legacy decks. I'm not trying to be a dick I'm just saying I could drive a truck through the list of holes in that argument. #1 if it's a very specific answer to SB cards why is it MD. #2 why don't people in your meta play better cards, even a regular Tranquility is better than a 5 mana answer to a deck that commonly combos out turn 4? #3 How do people plan to kill you if you have Sigil tokens to block and Replenish and why would life gain matter since if you've combod out and assumedly have drawn into Replenish and can relock the game next turn if they don't kill your during theirs? #4 Any 1/2 way decent card you put into Enchantress will win you games given enough time. You basically draw your entire deck in any game you win. I could probably win 5 games in a SCG open with Opalescence, that doesn't mean it's a good card for the deck. You are playing a card that is not only a two card combo that does nothing on it's own to help you, but it also has the unfortunate side effect of being the worst card in your deck by a long shot until you are literally about to win the game 95% of the time. I say literally because I'm guessing atleast 2/3 times you win with Crossroads you would have won anyways. The real test is how many times you are holding Crossroads in grip and don't wish it was something else. You're sitting there looking at Crossroads and the board and thinking, "Damn, I wish this was Wild Growth so I could play it and draw 2 cards and have an extra mana instead of drawing 2 cards and giving my opponent 2-3 turns of hasty attackers." Really I don't care. The worse everyone else does with Enchantress the better it is as a metagame choice since it marginalizes the threat so I support any cards you want to play. Oh and for the record #5 another Karmic Justice or Replenish SB is a better call for the meta you described about 10x over.

Hi guys I haven't read the whole thread because I don't play the deck, but a friend does.

I've read that some people think it's stupid to run MD aura of silence, but I have seen my friend gain 3 rounds, the first game, against Belcher thanks to running that card MD. Going the usual land + growth / Mox or both, to sterling grove, tutoring, win. Turn 3 should usually be enough.

It also works against Mirror, although it is not 100% necessary, but increases your chances or makes winning easy.

Makes Stax easier, and I mean, the thing is she runs it because it's only 1 card, it's destroy effect is always good, and it's +2 effects can sometimes be awesome, and what could that single slot be? Another oblivion?

Enchantress is about versatility and being able to do anything, right ??

Stax is a very rare matchup and favorable already and Beltcher wins G1 before you can play a 1x 3cc card in your deck unless you are really really lucky. Not a terrible MD card choice, but I'd rather keep Aura on SB status for now.
Side note on really lucky + Beltcher MU.
Played in a very small Legacy tournament last weekend. Last round was vs. Beltcher, if I win I get $30 if I lose I get nothing. G1 on the play my opening hand is Runed Halo, Chome Mox, Elephant Grass, Sterling Grove, Fetch, Fetch, Mirri's Guile. Really I could not have picked a better hand if you asked me to. First turn Halo naming Beltcher he had win in hand, instead he makes 10 Goblins. Turn 2 I play Elephant Grass and win. Game 2 he's on play, my opening hand Mirri's Guile, Runed Halo, Land, Land, Mindbreak Trap, Enlightened Tutor. Score, he tries to cast Beltcher I Mindbreak, 2nd turn Halo on Beltcher, I start to combo out, he makes 14 Goblins, bam another Mindbreak Trap.

[wcm8]

Enchantress is about versatility and being able to do anything, right ??

To an extent. If you want more of a toolbox type of deck, look at playing Quinn. There you run 4 Enlightened Tutors and multiple targets that completely hose certain decks.

Enchantress has some leeway with silver bullets, but with the way I build it, there really isn't too much room in the main deck to run something that isn't at least somewhat multi-functional. For example, Oblivion Ring hits just about anything, Ground Seal cantrips, and City of Solitude shuts down SDT, Brainstorm, and other tricks in addition to hosing blue counterspells. These cards might be dead in some matchups, but their usefulness in others warrants their inclusion.

Something like Aura of Silence seems like a bad main deck slot, I'd rather run an additional O Ring, or maybe even another Solitary Confinement. Or if you are really worried about artifacts/enchantments game 1, play Seal of Primordium. Usually just sustaining a Confinement is enough to prevent threats from problem cards until you manage to burn them or swing with an angel army.

I DO think Enlightened Tutor(s) should be run, because there are quite a few decks that literally fold to a successful Moat game 1. And sometimes it can get you out of a tough spot when you get something highly specific. I run 1 in the main and another in the SB.

[Nicote]

I DO think Enlightened Tutor(s) should be run, because there are quite a few decks that literally fold to a successful Moat game 1. And sometimes it can get you out of a tough spot when you get something highly specific. I run 1 in the main and another in the SB.

I run 2 main and they are always useaful and I never wish they would be something else. They are a potential answer to anything and with the amounts of Trygons/Qasali or any other thread that are nowadays in the decks I think ET are a must.

[TheSleeper]

I've had this deck for years but only recently picked it up again (as everyone I know is playing Aggro). Couple of thoughts:

-> There's been a few anti-Humility comments in the last few pages. I plan on using it in my 'Moat' slot (because I have no Moat). As a side benefit however, it does stop a number of creatures Moat doesn't:
-Trygon Predator
-Tombstalker
-Iona (before she hits play)
-Marit Lage
-Emrakul
-Rakdos Pit Dragon
-Painter's Servant
-Qasali Pridemage

Most of these see play in my meta so it probably deserves its place.

-> In testing a 3-Chrome/19-land manabase which has been working well. My theory is with Chrome you want a higher spell count so imprinting is less of a drawback.

-> Its been discussed before but is Carpet of Flowers win-more or worth it? Bringing in 3 CoF for Wild Growth vs. Blue is insane, but do we have the SB slots for it? I'm torn because on one hand it looks great and I want to run it, but if we're already favoured with replenish/city and/or choke I'm not sure it shouldn't be something else. Here is an example SB I've been messing with:

2 Lignify
1 Karmic Justice (1 MD)
2 Runed Halo (1 MD)
2 Aura of Silence
1 Oblivion Ring (1 MD)
1 CoP: Green
1 CoP: Red
2 City of Solitude
3 Carpet of Flowers

Any feedback appreciated :)

[Pienterekaak]

I am thinking of testing 1 Drop of Honey in the sideboard.
Its good against reanimate and heavy agro (merfolk,goblins,elves)
the downside would be that argothian enchantress cant be played.
what are your thoughts about this?

[wcm8]

Humility can work, the problem is that it will shut off your own Argothians and primary win condition (angel tokens). Also, 1/1s can be a threat over time since you might take awhile to set up and Humility typically will be dropped later in the game. Moat is better and ideal, but in that slot I'd use another Solitary Confinement over Humility. Heck, maybe even Wrath of God to wipe the board.

I like the idea of Carpet of Flowers, but I'd rather be playing City of Solitude/Choke vs. blue decks.

My sideboard has been like this:
2 Runed Halo
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Blood Moon
2 Choke
1 Aura of Silence
1 Replenish
1 Karmic Justice
1 Solitary Confinement
1 Lignify
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
2 Faerie Macabre


A list I would like to discuss is the one here: http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=35935

This guy runs Living Wish with a whole bunch of targets in his sideboard. I'm not so keen on this one, because while it has many potential answers in the board that will help out game 1, it seems to slow the deck down by at least a turn in many cases. What is interesting though is that he runs a whole bunch of fetch lands to help make Mirri's Guile better, essentially making it function like an SDT in other decks.

[dontbiteitholmes]

Humility can work, the problem is that it will shut off your own Argothians and primary win condition (angel tokens). Also, 1/1s can be a threat over time since you might take awhile to set up and Humility typically will be dropped later in the game. Moat is better and ideal, but in that slot I'd use another Solitary Confinement over Humility. Heck, maybe even Wrath of God to wipe the board.

I like the idea of Carpet of Flowers, but I'd rather be playing City of Solitude/Choke vs. blue decks.

My sideboard has been like this:
2 Runed Halo
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Blood Moon
2 Choke
1 Aura of Silence
1 Replenish
1 Karmic Justice
1 Solitary Confinement
1 Lignify
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
2 Faerie Macabre


A list I would like to discuss is the one here: http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=35935

This guy runs Living Wish with a whole bunch of targets in his sideboard. I'm not so keen on this one, because while it has many potential answers in the board that will help out game 1, it seems to slow the deck down by at least a turn in many cases. What is interesting though is that he runs a whole bunch of fetch lands to help make Mirri's Guile better, essentially making it function like an SDT in other decks.

Yeah Moat is ideal, but if I didn't own one, aside from playing a different deck the best option is probably Humility as a replacement. Living Wish is really bad idea IMO. First off, it's not an enchantment and it doesn't get enchantments, why not E. Tutor instead? Second the SB for Enchantress is already packed with tutorable silver bullets, running Living Wish loses you MD slots and SB slots, both of which are not things I want to do. Third, it's a tempo loss since most of the time if you're comboing out you'd rather have even a Wild Growth in that slot compared to a Wish. Mirri's Guile tech is interesting, but I've been trying to talk about that since 3-4 years ago and no one has taken the bait yet. I run 3x Guile and the same mana base +2 Karakas, +1 Plains, +1 Taiga, -4 Forest. Beyond Living Wish being in the deck not being that great he has some really Timmy targets and no Vexing Shusher (which would be the first card in if I went that route). Seriously it looks like his sideboard was made by a 12 year old.

[anonymos]

-> Its been discussed before but is Carpet of Flowers win-more or worth it? Bringing in 3 CoF for Wild Growth vs. Blue is insane, but do we have the SB slots for it? I'm torn because on one hand it looks great and I want to run it, but if we're already favoured with replenish/city and/or choke

Any feedback appreciated :)

Carpet of Flowers is interesting in my opinion. It competes with Choke/ City of Solitude slots in my sideboard. I am currently running 2 Carpet, 1 Choke in my list.

They provide different functions for the deck. Choke/City shuts their deck off. I cannot argue that this is not good for the deck. Carpet changes the rules of the game. Carpet basically gets us a reusable Dark Ritual for whatever color we want. This puts us out of range of Daze concern turn two the same way that Wild Growth and Utopia Sprawl do on turn 2, but grows a larger advantage as the game goes on. It is also an improved draw later as multiple copies of Choke/City are redundant. We already have a respectable tutor package and draw engine to enable finding 1 ofs. Having an opponent with multiple islands in play allows you to overwhelm them with threats, forcing them to think about what they are Forcing (ha ha...), especially wth Daze being rendered irrelevant by the amout of mana you are generating.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

Humility is awful because it cuts your draw engine in half. There are very, very few decks that get hit hard enough by the card to justify that.

[wcm8]

I played in a GPT over the weekend, going 2-2-1. I'm not going to go too in depth, but the experience did give me some ideas about changes I'm making to the deck.

Won 2-0 vs. Zoo. Pretty much just steam rolled the guy. There are times when you won't get your engine rolling, but in general this should be an easy matchup.

Lost 2-1 vs. a Counterbalance deck that splashed black for Confidant. The guy had boarded in quite a few things since I guess he considered Enchantress a difficult matchup for his deck. The reason I lost game 3 was actually my own fault, as I had been forgetting to trigger Karmic Justice for the Wastelands. I was concerned with the Engineered explosives, and simply forgot that it applies to other things as well (I was also very tired, having worked an overnight shift). Lesson learned.

Lost 0-2 to Armageddon Stax. The guy managed to get his Trinisphere/Chalice at 1/Smoke stack combo out with Armageddon backup early both games. This is rather difficult matchup in my opinion, but I think will become more manageable with some MD changes. Also, I think Stax players must be into sadism or something, because this is perhaps the most annoying matchup ever.

ID vs. a Show and Tell/Doomsday Shelldock combo deck. I saw a turn 2 Progenitus but was able to fetch Elephant Grass in time. Game 2 I lost to Emrakul coming down on turn 3. We decided to ID though because there were some errors in the match points (in his favor) from earlier in the tournament, and also because game 2 I let slide a misplay (illegal/incorrect triggering of Doomsday -- I could have been a jerk and called for a judge, but whatever). As with most combo decks, this is a bad matchup and the only thing I can think of that would help G2/3 would be to include Karakas and mulligan (and pray). Probably an auto-lose in most situations.

Won 2-0 vs. a janky black/white deadguy ale type deck.

The thing I've been realizing is that we (or at least for my build) need to include more spot removal in Enchantress. Just because we can tutor for some of our answers, doesn't mean we should sacrifice consistency. I think 1 Oblivion Ring is far too low, and that 3, possibly 4 is the correct number.

I'm going to drop Horizon Canopy for 2 basics. I like the optional draw effect, but it seems to just serve as a Wasteland target early in the game (when you actually need to use it for mana), and later on with an engine established it's not really needed. I also found Chrome Mox to be pretty much worthless. Turn 1 Argothian is nice, but 8 land auras should be enough acceleration. Tends to be a really bad top deck as well.

Also, I think I need to devote more slots in the sideboard for the blue matchup. I'm upping my MD Replenish count to 3 and then going to have some mixture of Choke, City of Solitude, and Carpet of Flowers to bring in. I'm not going to maindeck those simply because they aren't useful against most other decks, and with some luck Replenish will pull you through game 1.

I'm still back and forth with Ground Seal. I think 1 MD should be enough to handle a LftL engine.

[GiantGrowth]

Hey, I just had an idea for a great living wish target, squee. Gives you a random "oops I win" g1 against anyone not running md hate.