[Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

[ESG]

I sidelined Enchantress a couple of months ago because I wasn't able to improve my CounterTop matchup.

The win-loss results are in games, and the matchups are organized, roughly, from most favorable to least favorable.

Goblins (Mono-Red version) 2-0
Goblins (RBG version) 2-0
Dragon Stompy 2-0
Canadian Thresh 4-0
Merfolk (Mono-Blue version) 2-0
Merfolk (UW version) 2-1
Dredge 8-3
Mono-Brown Stax 2-1
Mirror match 1-1
Reanimator 3-3
Zoo 4-7
CounterTop (Progenitus version) 1-2
CounterTop (Dark Depths version) 1-2
Tempo Bant 0-2
CounterTop (UWB Thopter version) 1-2
43 Land 1-2
Blue Lands 1-2
CounterTop (UBW Stiflenought version) 0-2
CounterTop (UBW mill version) 0-2
Deadguy Ale 0-4
ANT 1-4
CounterTop (Firespout version) 1-8

I'm curious what has been working for other people when facing CounterTop. These are the main countermeasures I have tried: City of Solitude, more Replenishes, Seal of Primordium, Choke. Of these, the best have been Seal of Primordium and Choke. My main problem is that I can't trump multiple copies of Force of Will backed up by either Firespout or an assembled Counterbalance-Top. I need to stick an Enchantress or an Enchantress's Presence to win; if I can't start drawing cards, I lose.

[Antonius]

hmm, how are you 2-4 vs lands? As a longtime lands player, I can say that the only way lands can really beat enchantress is with gimmicks like Burning wish > upheaval > manabond (I think I'm the only person thats actually ever played that) or with some hardcore mind-fucking. It's a bad matchup for the land player. We have no real way to get past the defenses.

also, wouldn't O-Ring and Aura of Silence be the best answer to Counterbalance? Getting 3 seems pretty hard for them. early Pithing needle naming top could work as well. Null Rod would be pretty BAMF, too, seeing as how it has multiple applications, shutting down LEDs and Lotus Petals in the storm matchup.

[GiantGrowth]

ESG can you post the list you used for testing, and what modifications you tested?

[ESG]

@ Antonius: Hitting a 3cc spell isn't that hard if they're running Rhox War Monks and some number of Vendilion Clique. Especially post-board if they bring in Krosan Grips. I've lost at least two matches to blind flips at crucial moments. They only really need one, and at that point, they can just keep it on-call with Top. There are ways to break out of it, but it's worse than 50-50 at that point, in my experience. In the Thopter version, Enlightened Tutor is very good for them. The black-splash version has a lot of game via Force of Will ---> Extirpate.

This was my list at the time:

4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantress’s Presence
4 Sterling Grove
3 Solitary Confinement
4 Wild Growth
3 Utopia Sprawl
3 Lotus Petal
3 Exploration
3 Elephant Grass
3 Seal of Primordium/Choke/City of Solitude
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Lignify
1 Words of War
3 Replenish

14 Forest
4 Plains
2 Serra’s Sanctum

Sideboard:

4 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Tormod’s Crypt
4 Pithing Needle
2 Karakas
1 Lignify
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Mindbreak Trap

My list has the most in common with SpatulaOfTheAges' build, playing more like combo. When I get out two Enchantress effects, I usually draw up about a third of my deck, thanks to the Explorations, Petals and Sanctum, which keep feeding me mana, enabling me to continue playing spells. This launches me from having barely any board position to having the game locked up and safeguarded with all my replacements in hand in case they can somehow sweep my board on the next turn.

I run all basics (with the exception of Sanctum, obviously) because my meta is hostile to nonbasics, and I found that switching to basics didn't greatly increase my risk of color-screw. Lotus Petal and Utopia Sprawl usually provide sufficient mana-fixing. If you go the basics route, you just have to be more careful when picking a color with Utopia Sprawl. Because I run basics, I run Lotus Petal over Elvish Spirit Guide or Chrome Mox. I can't deny that it pumps Tarmogoyf, but it's an MVP in this deck, providing acceleration and color-fixing and making me virtually Daze-proof.

I haven't needed to run Karmic Justice, since I always keep Reverent Silence in mind. I've had my board wiped only once, by a Reanimator player who fetched a Bayou and then used Mystical Tutor to grab a boarded-in Reverent Silence, but I ended up winning that game.

I play only one kill condition. I used Sacred Mesa as an additional kill for a while, but it was generally slow and unimpressive. Sigil of the Empty Throne didn't even make the second cut: It was horrible in testing, often decking me or greatly increasing my risk of decking. I believe Sigil has a place in the slower, Whiter builds, but it does not work in my build.

Runed Halo, while a strong card, is too difficult to support in as Green a manabase as I run. I cannot say I've missed it.

Pithing Needle is my go-to card in the Lands matchup. I used to run Blood Moon, but I lost two games in a row with Blood Moon in my opener. It's too slow. Having Blood Moon is useless if Rishadan Ports keep you tapped down from Turn 1, which is what has happened nearly every time I've played against the deck.

When I pick up this deck again, I'm going to redo the sideboard, since Reanimator and ANT's numbers are likely to wane, which will leave more room to devote to fighting CounterTop.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

The SB might be the problem. I generally run 8-10 slots that can be brought in against blue decks; right now, some combination of Choke/Carpet of Flowers/Baneslayer Angel is what I'd recommend.

How detrimental would it be to run a couple more fetchlands? Is it worse than Lotus Petal pumping Goyfs (as opposed to running ESG in that slot)?

[ESG]

@ SpatulaOfTheAges: The value of fetchlands is largely determined by how many of my opponents are running Stifle. At the time I was playing this deck regularly, Stifle was fairly common in my meta, showing up in Canadian Thresh, Dreadstill, some Merfolk lists, some Bant lists, a CounterTop Dark Depths deck, and the then-new Reanimator. I think its presence has dropped somewhat, so I might try adding the fetches back in. I wouldn't use them as a replacement for Petals, though. Petals are way more stable than, say, a Taiga. No one pops a Pridemage to hit them; no one chooses them when resolving a Duress; no one counters them. Nonbasic lands, though, get blown up on sight. In over half my games with this deck, I've lost my first Sanctum. That's fine, 'cause I play two, and because I usually only need one or two activations out of it before I take over the game, but my basic lands have won me a lot of games by blanking opposing Wastelands long enough for me to go off.

Baneslayer Angel is interesting, although I suspect I might have as much luck with Sigil of the Empty Throne: same casting cost. I had avoided Sigil before based on manabase considerations and the fact my results showed that the Words of War combo was the most effective route, but I think it could prove useful in the CounterTop matchup, since if they counter my Enchantresses, I'll at least have a good chance to resolve Sigil. Then those enchantments in my hand won't just be waiting on me to draw a tutor or another Enchantress. I'll redo the sideboard and try the deck at some events next month.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

Baneslayer's advantages are actually quite different than Sigil; one, there should be no spot removal in the opponent's deck G2, leaving the Angel basically unanswerable, and two, it's a standalone threat, something not really true of Sigil.

[Vacrix]

Isn't Luminarch Ascension worth running as a win-condition over Words of War? I've tested it in multiple decks and I've never lost when its online.

[Oiolosse]

Maybe ppl were running another wincon due to Iona? I never really understood Words of War. I mean, we have multiple ways of pwning aggro as it is. WoWar is instant speed, maybe that's why?

[Nonex]

Since both Argothian and Presence force you to draw, you need something to avoid decking yourself. Any Words from the cycle is ok, but Words of War is the only win condition among them. You can use other Words or enchant yourself with Wheel of Sun and Moon, if you prefer that.

[anonymos]

Since both Argothian and Presence force you to draw, you need something to avoid decking yourself. Any Words from the cycle is ok, but Words of War is the only win condition among them. You can use other Words or enchant yourself with Wheel of Sun and Moon, if you prefer that.

Words of Wilding can also be a win condition. It makes 2/2 bears. I played it before Sigil was printed when I still didn't have a Moat for my deck.

You did hit my reason for running WoWar though. It stops me from running myself out of cards when I start digging and it takes forever to find a win condition.

[Honoluluicecaps]

Ugggh Words of Wilding is so brutally bad in comparison to Words of War. Words of Wilding is a turn slower than Words of War, cannot target opponenet's creatures, and every one of those lame bear tokens can get blasted by firespout/pyroclasm/etc. War is so strong to the point that some lists (not mine, but others) use it as it's ONLY win condition because their deck plays more combo-esque and thus does not utilize Sigil of the Empty Throne.

Unless everyone in your meta run CoP:Red...

[Sevryn]

Unless everyone in your meta run CoP:Red...

No, but enough people in mine run Pithing Needle that its worth it to me to have one win condition that cannot be needled.

[GiantGrowth]

Personally I have almost never had a problem with decking myself using sigil as my only win con. As long as you don't over extend you're enchantress effects, meaning try to avoid having 3 on the field unless you are in the process of winning, and definitely almost never have 4.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

Words of War wins now, which is relevant for going to time. Any kill condition running creatures can go another turn or more, depending on if the opponent can stall with Explosives, etc.

[Ando]

Words of War wins now, which is relevant for going to time. Any kill condition running creatures can go another turn or more, depending on if the opponent can stall with Explosives, etc.

Agreed on both levels. I've seen an enchantress player go into turns and on turn 5 do the 16 damage or so he needed to with WoWar to win the match. As for the second thing, I was playing enchantress Friday, and against The Rock I had my angel tokens Deeded away I believe 5 times (2 Deeds, 3 Eternal Witnesses) before I finally won. Wouldn't have been an issue with WoWar, which I was having trouble drawing (didn't want to pop my only Grove because of Vindicate).

[Sevryn]

In almost all cases, WoWar is superior to Sigil. However, they are different enough in what they do and how they win that I find it worthwhile to run one of each.

WoWar:
-red
-CMC 3
-skips draws
-wins now
-kills small creatures
-activated ability

Sigil:
-white
-CMC 5, makes CMC 0 creatures
-does NOT skip draws
-can block profitably
-triggered ability

So while WoWar can help you avoid drawing yourself to death, Sigil lets you keep drawing threats. WoWar gets hit by Chalice and Explosives at 3, Sigil only gets set back by Explosives at 0. WoWar gets hit by Needle, but Sigil gets hit by Iona on white. I like having my win conditions be slightly diverse; I will never run only one win card.

[dontbiteitholmes]

Isn't Luminarch Ascension worth running as a win-condition over Words of War? I've tested it in multiple decks and I've never lost when its online.

Umm, no. Luminarch Ascension takes 4 turns undisturbed to do anything, by the time I don't take damage for 4 straight turns I usually won 2 turns ago.

Words of War wins now, which is relevant for going to time. Any kill condition running creatures can go another turn or more, depending on if the opponent can stall with Explosives, etc.

This. Happened many times where no other wincon would have gone the distance.

[wcm8]

The question then becomes, if you do decide to run Words of War and Sigil, should you just run 1 of each or go with 2 Sigils in addition to War?

[JrGman2004]

Agreed on both levels. I've seen an enchantress player go into turns and on turn 5 do the 16 damage or so he needed to with WoWar to win the match. As for the second thing, I was playing enchantress Friday, and against The Rock I had my angel tokens Deeded away I believe 5 times (2 Deeds, 3 Eternal Witnesses) before I finally won. Wouldn't have been an issue with WoWar, which I was having trouble drawing (didn't want to pop my only Grove because of Vindicate).

This is a great reason why I run a Concordant Crossroads. So far, I've been ridiculed for my choice of CC in the deck, and been called a bad player (which I find funny, since I've been the top Enchantress player in the Orlando and Atlanta SCG Events), but a CC in the deck could have let you win before he could drop a Witness and return it. You make angels, he drops Deed and pops it on his turn. He's probably not able to Witness and put it back down that same turn, so you make angels again, and his next turn he drops deed and pops it again before you can attack. If you have CC, you make Angels, drop the Crossroads and swing in for game.

I have had it go both ways with winning on Turn 5 of turns winning by dropping a Crossroads to get in with my angels and winning by doing WoW damage and one round where I had to use a combination of Words of War and Concordant Crossroads to get my Angels in for the win.

I do not think it wise to run one or the other, and should really run both. They both have good uses, and in a pinch with WoW, you can take out that Iona naming white on you.

And I run 2 Sigils and 1 Words of War.