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Thread: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

  1. #221
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    Re: [Deck] Enchantress (Solitaire)

    The main reason that I can see for playing Seals over Ring is that you can play the Seals whenever you want to draw cards, whereas Ring has to sit and wait for a target. Sure, there will probably be a target for Ring whenever you play it, but it might not be the target you want to get rid of. You can drop the seals whenever just to get the engine going and they are still just as good, dropping Ring to get the engine going lessens its versatility greatly.

    There is also the possibility that you are playing against Landstill or 43 Land and they have no permanents on board. At that point you are going to not want to play it because you would have to RFG one of your own cards. I know that situation won't come up a lot, but it could.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nitewolf9 View Post
    I personally like spell snare against 2 cc spells, but it really isn't good against spells that aren't 2 cc. With engineered explosives, it is a good card to have against non-land permanents with converted mana cost equal to what you set the explosives to, but it doesn't hit those that have differing cc. Plus, engineered explosives has sunburst.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Agent View Post
    For some odd reason, I find shackles to be superb against creature oriented decks. Of course, the logic behind it is the sooner you can play and activate shackles the better. Although, shackles definitely has it's late game uses as well. It basically counts as a threat and a removal spell simultaneously which is relevant against "not quite shroud" creatures. Also, you should really be running a playset of engineered plagues against merfolks. They can dismantle tribal decks so run more of them.
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  2. #222
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    Re: [Deck] Enchantress (Solitaire)

    Quote Originally Posted by bigbear102 View Post
    There is also the possibility that you are playing against Landstill or 43 Land and they have no permanents on board. At that point you are going to not want to play it because you would have to RFG one of your own cards. I know that situation won't come up a lot, but it could.
    In my meta there's no landstill, so you're probably right here. Vs 43Lands they always have at lest a permanent: they almost never keep a hand without exploration or manabond.
    When the opponent has no permanents in play I usually target a ground seal or confinament (if I have 2 in play of those) or target a Sterling Grove and sac it in response. If I have 2 sterling groves there's no legal target on my side.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape, TrialByFire, Silverdragon mix
    We got Goyf Threshold, Deadgoyf Ale, Survival of the Goyfest and Goyfalid Breakfast.
    It probably won't end until we have decks like Goyf Stax, Goyfbelcher, Goyfchantress, Vial Goyflins, Goyfstill, Goyf from the Loam, Faergoyf Stompy, Goyf-Pox, Goyf Confinement, 8-Land Goyfstompy, and the Dave Gearhart classic, Goyfidarity.
    And Ichgoyfrid, Red Deadgoyf, GES, 42landand4goyf.dec, Goyf Game and Ill-Gotten-Goyf-y Pop
    Currently Playing: Nourishing Lich.Deck
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  3. #223

    Re: [Deck] Enchantress (Solitaire)

    I played the deck today at our the monthly Legacy-tourney and went undeafeted going first.

    I played vs BHWC Landstill 2-0
    vs Rock with R Splash 2-0
    vs Pox with G id
    vs Angel Stompy 2-1

    The deck is amazing - it even copes with pernicous Deed via Replenish and Karmic justice, which I played as a 1-of maindeck and another copy in the side. Justice won me some games -so did Replenish.

    I also changed my sideboard shortly before and added 2 Pithing Needle (because I saw so many decks playing Deeds and Explosives) and they did well for me, too.

  4. #224
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    Re: [Deck] Enchantress (Solitaire)

    And whats your build :)? Maybe I see something that looks good (i am new in playing Enchantres,, and i'm a n00b ;P)

    I play 2 Mesa Enchantress/2 Verduran Enchantress for extra speed, my build looks more like a turn 3/4 combo enchantress :P.. Cutted the Elephant Grass (have seen some people playing him here, why?)

    Mvg
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  5. #225
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    Re: [Deck] Enchantress (Solitaire)

    Quote Originally Posted by dlevsApiJ View Post
    And whats your build :)? Maybe I see something that looks good (i am new in playing Enchantres,, and i'm a n00b ;P)

    I play 2 Mesa Enchantress/2 Verduran Enchantress for extra speed, my build looks more like a turn 3/4 combo enchantress :P.. Cutted the Elephant Grass (have seen some people playing him here, why?)

    Mvg
    So total 12 Enchantress effects? Why? The problem with the other enchantress is that they cost double WW or just cost 3. Since they themselves arn't enchantments, you don't really benefit from it. It would seem like you are slowing yourself down though. If you want to speed up your deck, why not try cheap mana producing enchantments like Wild Growth?

    Are you also running exploration?

    Other the same note, is Eladamri's Vineyard a bad or good idea?

    Like someone people mentioned above, ground seal is a good cantrip when you are lacking some enchantress effects.

    Elephant Grass is to slow aggro decks down. Also it deals with Empty the Warrens or massive amount of Zombies from Ichroid. Besides, it is also an enchantment that cost only G.

  6. #226
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    Re: [Deck] Enchantress (Solitaire)

    Quote Originally Posted by strom View Post
    The deck is amazing - it even copes with pernicous Deed via Replenish and Karmic justice, which I played as a 1-of maindeck and another copy in the side. Justice won me some games -so did Replenish.

    I also changed my sideboard shortly before and added 2 Pithing Needle (because I saw so many decks playing Deeds and Explosives) and they did well for me, too.
    Congrats on the finish! Great job! I'd like to play the deck as well, but at the moment there are no tournaments in sight..
    I don't know if Needles can be good. They're not much synergistic with the rest of the deck.
    I thought of playing 1 MD Karmic Justice too, but i dismissed it because there are not loads of decks that can destroy many enchantments maindeck. In those cases, Replenish does the job.

    Quote Originally Posted by dlevsApiJ View Post
    And whats your build :)?
    I play 2 Mesa Enchantress/2 Verduran Enchantress for extra speed, my build looks more like a turn 3/4 combo enchantress :P.. Cutted the Elephant Grass (have seen some people playing him here, why?)
    More than 8 Enchantresses are not needed by the deck. They cost too much and are creature instead of enchantments. They are also open to critter removal.

    Elephant Grass is cheap and quite effective in many of the matchups you'll encounter.
    - Goblin is slowed A LOT, as it relies in attacking with hordes for the win.
    - Threshold runs few lands, that usually means it can attack with just a creature and can't do many cantrips.
    - Ichorid can't attack you with almost all of his dudes
    - Breakfast can't attack you with his giant Ghoul
    - Buys a lot of time against Black-based disruption decks.

    My list at the moment is this:
    // Lands
    4 [ON] Windswept Heath
    4 [B] Savannah
    2 [US] Serra's Sanctum
    1 [A] Taiga
    7 [ON] Forest (1)
    2 [MM] Plains (1)

    // Creatures
    4 [US] Argothian Enchantress

    // Spells
    4 [VI] Elephant Grass
    3 [US] Exploration
    4 [DIS] Utopia Sprawl
    3 [OD] Ground Seal
    4 [IN] Sterling Grove
    4 [ON] Enchantress's Presence
    1 [ON] Words of War
    3 [LRW] Oblivion Ring
    3 [JU] Solitary Confinement
    1 [AT] Sacred Mesa
    1 [LG] Moat
    2 [UD] Replenish
    1 [IA] Wild Growth
    2 [MR] Chrome Mox

    // Sideboard
    SB: 1 [OD] Ground Seal
    SB: 4 [VI] City of Solitude
    SB: 1 [MM] Spiritual Focus (still not sure, maybe Compost)
    SB: 2 [8E] Choke
    SB: 3 [OD] Karmic Justice
    SB: 2 [WL] Aura of Silence
    SB: 1 [7E] Sacred Ground
    SB: 1 [TE] Warmth (still not sure, maybe Dovescape)

    @Chrome Moxes: those are great if in the initial 7 or drawn in the first turn. Damn, landing an enchantress on turn 1 is unfair.They're quite good when you're "mid-combo" with like 10-12 cards in hand and you'll discard cards anyway at EOT. It helps keep going your combo. They somewhat help vs LD strategies. Unfortunately they're shit if drawn on the 2nd to 4th turn.

    @1 Wild Growth: the deck is running too little lands to have 4 Explorations, but still needs 1 drops. Think about it as the 5th Utopia Sprawl.

    @3 Oblivion Rings: They're good vs threshold as they take care of Goyfs and Counterbalances, nice vs Goblins as they can take a SGC when you've moat out or take an early vial/lackey, theyr'e nice vs Breakfast as they take out Vials and combo-creatures. They're good vs Black decks because they take care of opposing Hippies, Confidants, Engineered Plagues, Dystopias. IMO they're better than seal of primordium and Seal of doom. Aura of silence, however, does different things, as it's better in some matchups (Affinity, TES, Belcher, pernicious, EE) and almost useless in other ones (Goblin, Threshold with no MD CB or EE).
    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape, TrialByFire, Silverdragon mix
    We got Goyf Threshold, Deadgoyf Ale, Survival of the Goyfest and Goyfalid Breakfast.
    It probably won't end until we have decks like Goyf Stax, Goyfbelcher, Goyfchantress, Vial Goyflins, Goyfstill, Goyf from the Loam, Faergoyf Stompy, Goyf-Pox, Goyf Confinement, 8-Land Goyfstompy, and the Dave Gearhart classic, Goyfidarity.
    And Ichgoyfrid, Red Deadgoyf, GES, 42landand4goyf.dec, Goyf Game and Ill-Gotten-Goyf-y Pop
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  7. #227

    Re: [Deck] Enchantress (Solitaire)

    My build:

    // Lands
    4 [ON] Windswept Heath
    1 [ON] Wooded Foothills
    8 [UNH] Forest
    1 [IA] Plains
    3 [B] Savannah
    2 [B] Taiga
    2 [US] Serra's Sanctum

    // Creatures
    4 [US] Argothian Enchantress

    // Spells
    4 [ON] Enchantress's Presence
    4 [US] Exploration
    4 [DIS] Utopia Sprawl
    1 [ON] Words of War
    1 [MI] Sacred Mesa
    2 [OD] Ground Seal
    2 [5E] Sylvan Library
    2 [UD] Replenish
    4 [IN] Sterling Grove
    3 [JU] Solitary Confinement
    4 [VI] Elephant Grass
    1 [LOR] Oblivion Ring
    1 [PLC] Seal of Primordium
    1 [LG] Moat
    1 [OD] Karmic Justice

    // Sideboard
    SB: 1 [PLC] Seal of Primordium
    SB: 1 [OD] Aegis of Honor
    SB: 2 [WL] Aura of Silence
    SB: 3 [UD] Compost
    SB: 1 [OD] Karmic Justice
    SB: 2 [VI] City of Solitude
    SB: 3 [MR] Rule of Law
    SB: 2 [SOK] Pithing Needle

    The inclusion of needles was -like I said -meta decision. They are probably not needed in every meta.

    I am also pretty happy with the 2/2 split on Library and Ground Seal.
    Both cards have their advantages. Its always nice to have a library vs slow control like Landstill where losing 4-8 life to draw extra cards is not a problem. The Ground Seals helped me to shut off Life from the Loam and Eternal Witness during the tourney -so they served their purpose.

  8. #228

    Re: [Deck] Enchantress (Solitaire)

    I really see no reason to be running library over guile. The ability of guile to let you keep those 1-land hands, plus it comes down before it can be countered, just makes it so much better than library. You will almost never have library + words both in play in a timely enough manor to make it matter. With that said, i hear good things about mox / ESG in that spot.

    If you want oblivion rings, the thing to cut is seal of primordium, not aura of silence. Aura serves a much different purpose: beating belcher, instant speed removal, crippling stax & 5/3 & affinity, destroying the mirror, and generally slowing any artifacts and enchantments. If nothing else, you can use it to nuke a ground seal in resp to replenish, and draw a card. Oblivion ring has a different role, it is mainly to answer big creatures beating through moat / grass (tombstalker, angels, goyfs, psychatogs, krosan tusker --yah, that happened to me...--). I think 1-2 is the right number, with groves to conjure them up if needed.

    I have really liked the third replenish in the board. A lone humility in the board has also been amazing. For black decks, a single light of day has done the trick for me (as they often have no answer).

    The problem with needles, they die too easy. One disenchant, EE, grip, or naturalize later, you have no permanents. The trick is, just use seal / ring / aura at the time it suits you best (when you have a replenish). Also, try to bait out the deed, often people will sac it to take out solitary, or a win-con.

  9. #229

    Re: [Deck] Enchantress (Solitaire)

    Guile can not draw extra cards -thats why you shouldnt play it.
    And to be honest: I would never ever keep a one-land hand no matter if I had Guile in my opening hand or not.

    Seal of Primordium vs Aura: This is a tough one - I have chosen seal over Aura because of its speed. In my testings I often found myself being to slow with so many enchantments with a cc of 3. The double-white can be bothering, too sometimes if you need it in the very early turns.

    I have to admit that the effect of Aura is bigger but I dont think that it will "beat belcher".


    I am still not sure if Paralax Wave would be better than moat. Need some more testing. Yesterday there where match-ups where the Wave would have been better. ..

  10. #230

    Re: [Deck] Enchantress (Solitaire)

    I absolutely hate posting a deck list right after like three others, but I'm gonna share the secret, SVG TEK that the entire city of Syracuse gave to me yesterday:

    Blood moon.

    Stand baffled, or rage that you've come up with it before (you haven't posers), but I think it's pretty cool. Look at the reasoning (watch me use these buttons and tabs like a pro):
    • The Landstill match
      • Wasteland
      • They run only 4 basic land
      • Shuts down Man-Lands
    • Hoses Breakfast even more
      • Seriously - they run 1 basic land. The Hatfields don't run any.
    • 4x Land match may or may not be difficult
      • Rishidan Port plays havoc with your only 2 white sources, and with Utopia Sprawled lands
      • Wasteland
      • Man-Lands
      • Direct damage lands
    • The Threshold match
      • They run 3 basic land, if they're lucky.
      • They can't fetch out their 2 or 3 basic land
      • I'd like to see them resolve a Meddling Mage or Enforcer (Dragon comes a little eaiser)
    • Shuts down Wasteland
      • I, uh, think I've covered this.
      • Making these lists is pretty fun
      • Did you know that Ludacris was in 2 Fast 2 Furious?


    This, and, cutting the fifth color from the deck makes it pretty good. One less non-basic (actually, exactly the same amount of non-basics) is a step in the right direction. Maybe we could cut the second taiga for plains - I find that WW is tough to hit all too often. The only thing that sucks about basic plains is that it doesn't tap for . That's infuriating.

    Black is, in my experience, necessary. The Abyss is a HOUSE. And not one built by love, that's for sure. Elephant Grass or Confinement (or Moat) + The Abyss is amazing. It makes your opponent have to drop two creatures (or a hasty creature) in order to swing in. Or, I guess, a Mystic Enforcer. The instant speed removal of Seal of Doom way out shadows the coolness of Ob ring. The only two non-creature things I need to deal with are crucible (solved by Blood Moon)(That is, waste-lock is really like +1 Mountain lock) and Counterbalance. Counterbalance is a nuisance, I guess. I don't like my list (coming up next), on account of I tossed the Seal of Primordium into the board to accommodate the Blood Moon.

    Here's my list, in no particular order:

    // Lands
    3 [A] Savannah
    2 [R] Taiga
    2 [6E] Plains (1)
    2 [US] Serra's Sanctum
    4 [ON] Windswept Heath
    6 [UNH] Forest
    1 [A] Bayou

    // Creatures
    4 [US] Argothian Enchantress

    // Spells
    4 [VI] Elephant Grass
    1 [OD] Karmic Justice
    1 [LG] Moat
    1 [WL] Aura of Silence
    1 [MI] Sacred Mesa
    1 [ON] Words of War
    4 [ON] Enchantress's Presence
    4 [DIS] Utopia Sprawl
    4 [US] Exploration
    3 [OD] Ground Seal
    2 [UD] Replenish
    1 [VI] City of Solitude
    4 [IN] Sterling Grove
    3 [JU] Solitary Confinement
    1 [9E] Blood Moon
    1 [DIS] Seal of Doom
    1 [LG] The Abyss

    // Sideboard
    SB: 1 [OD] Karmic Justice
    SB: 1 [WL] Aura of Silence
    SB: 1 [VI] City of Solitude
    SB: 2 [9E] Blood Moon
    SB: 3 [10E] Rule of Law
    SB: 2 [TE] Humility
    SB: 1 [DIS] Dovescape
    SB: 2 [TE] Choke
    SB: 1 [MI] Null Chamber
    SB: 1 [PLC] Seal of Primordium

    This is extremely un-tested. Allow me to break down some card choices (also, I'ma try a different listing function):
    1. Blood Moon
      • We've been over this.
    2. 20 permenant mana sources with only 4 "Tap to add extra" sources
      • I can't stand Chrome Mox. Or ESG. I tried a 21 land for a while, which sucked pretty hard. Mana flood is pretty harsh. At a local yesterday I misplaced my third Savannah and played a 19-land, 60 card deck and still drew too many land. Except for the times when I drew exactly the right amount of land. I think it's okay. What do the rest of you think?
    3. No Ob Ring
      • You can't just play it to draw off of it. And don't give me any crap about, "Well, you can slide out things that don't matter. It's sweet to hide a Presence and then recover from a Deed." Yeah, you're right. Except that it's also nice to just kill that Thresh player's Tarmogoyf without having to worry about him gripping your Ring EOT and swinging in FTW. It's great in some matches, and it's freaking terrible in other matches. I'll just leave it at that.
    4. Only one Disenchant effect
      • I'm still mulling this over. It's hot to be able to disenchant your Landstill opponent's turn three crucible (or just play it and sit on it, forcing him to not play standstill), but it also is terrible frequently. For instance, you're up against burn. Or Solidarity. Or... there must be more. The point is that many decks don't play artifacts or enchantments worth getting rid of. And for the half or so that do, you have Aura of Silence. I'll think about adding it back into the main, but I'm not sold.
    5. No Sylvan Library or Mirri's Guile
      • Spatula made an argument about a page back that made sense. Something about the matches where you need the cards, Library is too slow, and Guile doesn't draw anything, which makes it kind of unnecessary. I like Guile back in the day, but it encourages you to keep one-landers. Uncool, generally.
    6. No 'yard hate
      • Yeah, I know. I cut my 3 Leylines for three Titania's Songs. But they were pretty terrible, since I didn't play against either Affinity or storm-based combo. I'm still up in the air about it. But we beat Breakfast with Ground Seal, and Life from the Loam with Ground Seal, and Ichorid has trouble with Elephant Grass and Ground Seal and Moat. Again, I'm not sure how I feel about these slots.
    7. Rule of Law?
      • Yeah, aydunno. I'm really not comfortable scooping to storm-based combo.
    8. Dovescape? SRYSLY?
      • Okay, scoff if you want, but I'm pretty sure that is is sick nasty in Enchantress. I could go to two colors if I wanted and just run this instead of Words of War. I resolved this against Landstill yesterday after sealing his Pernicious Deed (He didn't have mana to pop it because I'd resolved Choke), and honestly did a happy dance. Straight up Knights of the Hokey Pokey style. Your enchantresses resolve, and then you cantrip off of your enchantments, and your opponent (baring every turn x-spells) won't be able to keep up with your Bird Advantage.


    That's about all of my thoughts, right now. Bring on the discussion.
    Last edited by Zach Tartell; 10-29-2007 at 08:31 AM.
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  11. #231
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    Re: [Deck] Enchantress (Solitaire)

    Quote Originally Posted by ClearSkies View Post
    So total 12 Enchantress effects? Why? The problem with the other enchantress is that they cost double WW or just cost 3. Since they themselves arn't enchantments, you don't really benefit from it. It would seem like you are slowing yourself down though. If you want to speed up your deck, why not try cheap mana producing enchantments like Wild Growth?

    Are you also running exploration?

    Other the same note, is Eladamri's Vineyard a bad or good idea?

    Like someone people mentioned above, ground seal is a good cantrip when you are lacking some enchantress effects.

    Elephant Grass is to slow aggro decks down. Also it deals with Empty the Warrens or massive amount of Zombies from Ichroid. Besides, it is also an enchantment that cost only G.
    I play 4 Wild Growth and 4 Exploration,, as i have said,, its a much faster build, but you play much less control cards, and i really gonna play a more control build ;).

    Mvg
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  12. #232

    Re: [Deck] Enchantress (Solitaire)

    I have actually considered blood moon, but never tried it out. I always thought that choke serves almost the exact same purpose, except choke combos with grass & aura. In fact, all the match-ups you want blood moon, are blue based decks (thresh, landstill, breakfast). Although, Blood moon has the advantage of shutting off those colored lands immediately, and disabling fetches. There are a few non-blue decks it could come into play against, if thats in your metagame (BW confidant, lands, the rock).

    With that said, i think you should go with one or the other. I think blood moon is the better option, and choke is no longer needed.

    I must say, 4 colors and a MD blood moon seems counter-intuitive, but there are so many basics you might not notice. Also, you have alot of 1-of in the main, which are completely dead in many MUs (city, moon, justice, aura). I don't like the idea, it seems like you have a wishboard in the main deck...

    I'm still not sold on dovescape either. Every place you need it, i would rather have moon, city, or choke.

  13. #233
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    Re: [Deck] Enchantress (Solitaire)

    I like the Blood Moon idea, just have to be careful about where you put your Utopia Sprawls, don't have them fall off your duals when they lose thier forestitude.

  14. #234
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    Re: [Deck] Enchantress (Solitaire)

    Blood Moon seems like it only beats out Choke if you have a lot of 4CC Landstill in your meta-game.

    A)Backlash. Bloodmoon is shit when you draw all your non-basics.

    B)Tertiary color instead of primary color. This seems especially important given that you need either a non-basic or Utopia Sprawl to cast it.

    C)If they have a single basic island they can function pretty well under Blood Moon. Choke + Taxing effects = Down w/teh Sickness. It seems easier for most decks to play around Blood Moon than Choke.

    D)BEB/Hydroblast gives them additional outs to Blood Moon.
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  15. #235
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    Re: [Deck] Enchantress (Solitaire)

    Back to Basics would be a bad idea right?
    Or combining Back to Basics with Blood Moon is redundant?

    I always want to use Back to Basics somehow, lol.

    Besides, the inclusion of blue allow for Chills, but it doesn't go very well with Choke.

  16. #236
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    Re: [Deck] Enchantress (Solitaire)

    Yeah, but you bring them in against totally different match-ups and you're only running 1-2 Trop.
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  17. #237
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    Re: [Deck] Enchantress (Solitaire)

    Warning: Utopia Sprawl reads "Enchant Forest". That means that if it is attached to a nonbasic Forest, and you play Blood Moon, the Sprawl falls off as a state-based effect, probably cutting you off from one or more colours.
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  18. #238
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    Re: [Deck] Enchantress (Solitaire)

    baritone is it just me, or is your list 61 cards?
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  19. #239

    Re: [Deck] Enchantress (Solitaire)

    Quote Originally Posted by GiantGrowth View Post
    baritone is it just me, or is your list 61 cards?
    It is exactly 61 cards.
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  20. #240
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    Re: [Deck] Enchantress (Solitaire)

    Quote Originally Posted by lonelybaritone View Post
    Black is, in my experience, necessary. The Abyss is a HOUSE. And not one built by love, that's for sure. Elephant Grass or Confinement (or Moat) + The Abyss is amazing. It makes your opponent have to drop two creatures (or a hasty creature) in order to swing in. Or, I guess, a Mystic Enforcer. The instant speed removal of Seal of Doom way out shadows the coolness of Ob ring. The only two non-creature things I need to deal with are crucible (solved by Blood Moon)(That is, waste-lock is really like +1 Mountain lock) and Counterbalance. Counterbalance is a nuisance, I guess. I don't like my list (coming up next), on account of I tossed the Seal of Primordium into the board to accommodate the Blood Moon.
    Is The Abyss really that strong against Threshold? Mystic Enforcer and Nimble Mongoose are both immune. I assume you wouldn't maindeck it in a Thresh-heavy environment.

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