[Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

[C.P.]

I see 2 moats also. His build is interesting. If I would ever play this deck, Confinement would be a 3-4 of. He did well with it anyways. Is this what most of you guys are playing?

I play 4 confinement, abut I can see myself dropping the fourth.

My list would be:


8 Enchantress

4 EGrass
3 Confinement
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Moat

4 Sprawl
3 Exploration

3 SGlove

2 City of Solitude
1 Sacred Ground
1 Aura of Silence
2 Ground Seal
1 Sacred Mesa
1 Words of War
1 Oring

2 Replenish

2 Sanctum

Something like that.
I want to sqeeze in couple guiles, though.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

I've varied between 2-3 Confinements. 4 is too much for a card that's just a fog without the engine in place, and 2-3 + Grove is enough to see it reliably with the engine working.

What's up with the MD Sacred Ground?

And someone should have told him that Choke is better than City of Solitude. And that even if you disagree, the combination is much better than multiple Cities, if you want that many anti-blue spots.

[Happy Gilmore]

I've varied between 2-3 Confinements. 4 is too much for a card that's just a fog without the engine in place, and 2-3 + Grove is enough to see it reliably with the engine working.

What's up with the MD Sacred Ground?

And someone should have told him that Choke is better than City of Solitude. And that even if you disagree, the combination is much better than multiple Cities, if you want that many anti-blue spots.

When I saw that podcast I had deja-Vu it was like being back at Anwar's first tournament before Legacy was Legacy. In many ways the list has not changed at all. It would have been nice if the pros simply mentioned that they began researching decks for legacy on the source. With few exceptions I saw nothing unusual out of the pros. Mori's deck however, was awsome.

[Soto]

Do you guys till play Sylvan Library? Like 2-3 of?

[Kronicler]

LonelyBaritone: If you were going to take this deck to a DLD or an unknown meta, what list would you run? All of the recent lists that I could find seem to be testing something, either a splash or a new card. What has that testing shown? What is the best standard list right now?

Thanks so much,

Kronicler

[Julian23]

I've been playing the GWr Enchantress built we've all been advocating for quite a while now but recently I had decided to give the "oldschool" UGw Enchantress featuring the Words of Wind combo another chance. I'm wondering what you might think about my current list so far:

4x Argothian Enchantress
3x Cloud of Fearies

4x Enchantress' Presence
4x Utopia Sprawl
4x Exploration
4x Words of Wind
4x Sterling Grove
1x Trade Routes
1x City of Solitude
4x Oblivion Ring
1x Ground Seal

2x Living Wish
2x Stroke of Genius

4x Windswept Heath
4x Tropical Island
4x Savannah
4x Forest
3x Island
1x Plains
2x Serra's Sanctum

Sideboard so far:
1x Verduran Enchantress
1x Cloud of Fearies
1x Serra's Sanctum
1x Selesnya Sanctuary
3x Karmic Justice
1x Sacred Ground
3x City of Solitude
4x Seal of Removal


This is just a very rough list I threw together yesterday. Maybe the seals could/should be maindecked as they are another 1-mana-enchantment that enable the infinite combo along with being good against aggro.
Some thoughts?
And _please_ don't start the whole blue vs. red Enchantress discussion again.

[goldenj]

@Julian23: no Replenish? Can you explain the living wish and the stroke? What about hoofprints for a win condition if you don't want the mesa? Seems to fit with the more lock-ish nature of the UG.

Vargas' exact list:
4 Windswept Heath
3 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Scrubland
7 Forest
3 Plains
2 Serra's Sanctum
-------22 land
4 Argothian Enchantress
-------4 creatures
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Elephant Grass
2 Ground Seal
4 Utopia Sprawl
2 Exploration
1 Sacred Mesa
1 Sacred Ground
3 Sterling Grove
1 Words of War
2 Replenish
2 Moat
2 Solitary Confinement
3 City of Solitude
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Aura of Silence
--------34 other spells
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Krosan Grip
3 Choke
3 Thoughtseize
2 Karmic Justice
1 Replenish
--------15 sideboard
In his interview, he identfied the grass and ground seal as crucial. As remarked above the cities are curious. Especially seeing the chokes in the SB.

Are the grips anti-deed tech? That's what I run auras for.

The thoughtseize and the leylines of the void are really interesting. I guess that's why the Bayou in the manabase.

[Zach Tartell]

LIST

This is just a very rough list I threw together yesterday. Maybe the seals could/should be maindecked as they are another 1-mana-enchantment that enable the infinite combo along with being good against aggro.
Some thoughts?
And _please_ don't start the whole blue vs. red Enchantress discussion again.

Julian - I myself am not a big fan of the blue splash. I don't know what sort of discussion you're referring to, either - but I guess that's not really important.

I have several concerns about you list:

• You run 3 basic islands. Is that necessary? Let me break it down into another (gasp!) list (I love this function.
  
  • Utopia Sprawl doesn't play well with non-forests
  • Your most important engine is entirely Green. Green mana seems really way more important than blue, to me. I'd rather see you running like two Flooded Strands (since Strand can fetch out either of your duals or the basic against a waste lock) than three islands.
  • You only have ten Blue spells in your deck. Now, I know that saying "Only ten blue spells" sounds a little hypocritical, but you're only looking to resolve 1 Words of Wind or a Trade Routes with a Cloud of Faeries. That's it. Or, I suppose, the stroke finish, but I find that to be a bit tacky.
    
    • Do you need four Words of Wind?
• Your win conditions include 3 Cloud of Faeries, or stroke. How do you beat combo? I guess I really can't say anything, on account of the Gwr build doesn't really stand a chance, either. I just forsee you haveing some mad problems against thresh, where Gwr's Blood Moons and (if you still run 'em) Chokes would drop a train on them.
• I hate Living Wish. I tried it, and I found it too clunky - I'd rather draw cards that would let me keep my Confinement up, or not spend my early game wasting time with wishing for stuff that you could fit in your deck if you hadn't put wishes in their slots to begin with. I'll admit that having a Grab-An-Enchantress card is nice, but ultimately unnecessary.
• I also think that your full playset of O-Rings is a bit of overkill, along with your full playset of City of Solitude between your board and maindeck.
• I also don't see Elephant Grass, perhaps the best cost enchantment in the meta right now, included in your list. That takes goblins, Cephalid Breakfast, and Ichorid to the woodshed.

Man, I love me some list functions.

Dear Zach,
I love you and everything you do. Please enlighten me with your boundless wisdom.
Happy Hanukkah,
Kronicler

I may have taken some liberty with that, but since I'm not on Firefox right now I can't tab'd browse, so I don't care to right click and open a new window, so I won't be having actual quotes.

To be honest with you, dude, I have no idea. I think that by cutting two of the following from my previous list: Blood Moon, Karmic Justice, and/or City of Solitude; and switching them to the board for the last two Elephant Grasses is an excellent choice. I just don't like not having my full playset against a random deck. I still haven't gotten data on Eyes of the Wisent, yet. People keep on playing crappy MBC discard decks against me, and I just drop confinement (or resolve an Enchantress) and win. My one match against a thresh player ended on turn two when I played my Moat with a mana open (I kept a 4 land, double exploration hand with Moat on the draw) and he replied something as kind as "Only people of color would run such a questionable card." After breifly exploring the circumstances of my conception and parentage, he decided that he was finished playing, and left.

As for the cards I've been testing lately (are you ready for another list?):

• Dropping the black splash hasn't been much of a problem. I really kick myself for buying not one, but two, copies of The Abyss, but I'm not sure that we need it. O-Ring is really good at what it does, and I haven't had a sweeper give my opponent his Goyf or Crucible or Counterbalance back yet.
• Blood Moon and Choke are interchangeable. I prefer Blood Moon because of the rampant amount of Non-Basic lands in my local meta, and I would bring it to a large event. If you are guarenteed to go up against a bunch of Thresh, MUC, and Landstill, I'd recommend Choke. It's noteworthy that Choke + Elephant Grass/Ghostly Prison is GG against Thresh.
• Hoofprints is amazing. Whoever brought it up to me, I'm sorry I told you you were adopted. It's good, and I think it's here to stay. You don't have to combo with it - just kind of drop it and sit, then go nuts with sanctum and swing in for the win (barring Punishment, Pernicous Deed, Wrath of God, Engineered Explosives, Akroma's Vengance, Kitar's Wrath, Rout (with kicker or not), Damnation, and 4 Engineered Plagues on Elemental). I wish it were instant speed. Maybe against control you could board in Fires of Yavamaia or Concordant Crossroads.
  
  • Don't actually do that.

@Julian23: no Replenish?

This guy is on point. I can't believe I missed that.

The thoughtseize and the leylines of the void are really interesting. I guess that's why the Bayou in the manabase.

Hey! Hey! Don't go giving Super Secret Tacosnape, Spatula of the Ages, and LonelyBaritone tech credit to LSV. To be fair, he's a little better known than us. But Tacosnape's first name is Leif, and Spatula is engaged, so he probably has sex with girls. I'm kind of boring.

Anyway, before I digress more, Leyline isn't really a new thing. It's just that I wasn't invited to play my build at Worlds, so you didn't get to see my list on Wizards. That's really the whole story.

Library?

Spatula suggested, and I was swayed into believeing, that Ground seal is just better. It actually serves a purpose, draws the card now, and comes foil. The only time I'd wish I had library was against control. That's it.

Everyone else, I'm too lazy to scroll farther down than I already have. Now I have to go make Cavius angry at me in the "Tartell vs. Whatever his last name is Enchantress thread."

Happy 8th night, all.

[goldenj]

I wasn't trying to give the credit to LSV. In general, I was trying to point out how closely he followed the deck as practiced in this forum. Certainly Spatula's done more work on the deck longer than anyone else I've seen.

@Julian: the fun Words of Wind kill is Multani.

[GreenOne]

A few reflections (without using the list function, because I'm not that awesome):

- City of Solitude: lately I messed up with those ones. Threshold usually doesn't have mora than 1 counter in hand anyway (they only play 4 hard counters) so why don't just play a must-counter that does something useful if it comes into play? say...Moat or Choke ad example.

- 2x Solitary Confinament: I really like this. Confinament is really useful when you have 2xEnchantress effects out, and if you have them, chances of you having one of 6 cards (2 confinament+4 grove) are quite high. If you can't mantain it with just an enchantress out it's just a fog effect.. not much.

- 2x Exploration: I already explained why 4 explorations is just bad for this deck IMO. 3 feels like a good number, but right now I'm testing 2 to see if there's more space for bombs in the deck.

- Circle of protection:Green : did anyone ever thought about that in the threshold matchup? Seems like it can stall a lot, but it does not provide much more than Moat's protection. It costs 2 less, btw. Thoughts about that?

- Hoofprints: I'm testing them too as a 1x. It's not overwhelming but somewhat good even if you don't have an enchantress out. Don't know if it's worth the slot though.

So right now I'm testing a list with 2 Explorations, 2 Confinaments and 2 Ghostly Prison.

// Lands
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
4 [B] Savannah
2 [US] Serra's Sanctum
1 [A] Taiga
9 [ON] Forest (1)
2 [MM] Plains (1)

// Creatures
4 [US] Argothian Enchantress

// Spells
4 [VI] Elephant Grass
2 [US] Exploration
4 [DIS] Utopia Sprawl
2 [OD] Ground Seal
4 [IN] Sterling Grove
4 [ON] Enchantress's Presence
1 [ON] Words of War
2 [LRW] Oblivion Ring
2 [JU] Solitary Confinement
1 [AT] Sacred Mesa
1 [LG] Moat
2 [UD] Replenish
2 [IA] Wild Growth
2 [CHK] Ghostly Prison
1 [LRW] Hoofprints of the Stag

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [OD] Ground Seal
SB: 2 [8E] Choke
SB: 3 [OD] Karmic Justice
SB: 3 [WL] Aura of Silence
SB: 1 [7E] Sacred Ground
SB: 1 [7E] Compost
SB: 1 [DIS] Dovescape
SB: 1 [TE] Warmth
SB: 1 [DK] Blood Moon

What are your thoughts about 6x maindeck propaganda effects? Are there better BOMBS to play in their place? I wish I had a Moat, but I'm not gonna spend 40 bucks on a 2nd of a card which is played by (maybe) 2 decks. I still got an ethic to respect.

[edgewalker]

The only problem I I have with propaganda effects now is that they don't stop a lot of the creatures it needs to. So many decks no will only have 1-3 creatures out and they're all usually a pretty big clock, so paying 2 each turn isn't that bad. Hell, breakfast only needs to do it once, and threshold needs to do it what like 4 times? I'm not saying go out and buy the moat, but is there anything else that can stop creatures from just straight up attacking without any conditions?

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

Choke + Elephant Grass.

[GreenOne]

The only problem I I have with propaganda effects now is that they don't stop a lot of the creatures it needs to. So many decks no will only have 1-3 creatures out and they're all usually a pretty big clock, so paying 2 each turn isn't that bad. Hell, breakfast only needs to do it once, and threshold needs to do it what like 4 times? I'm not saying go out and buy the moat, but is there anything else that can stop creatures from just straight up attacking without any conditions?

mmh Island Sanctuary? worse than confinament. Porphiry nodes/drop of honey would be good.. if it wasn't for argothians.. Genju of the fields... if it wasn't for 5/6 Tarmos I'd think about him. Kirtar's Desire seems a playable card.. it's cheap and has a Stp-similar effect. Gossamer Chains with their WW in the cc are too clunky, even if I like the effect. Dueling Grounds let the 'goyf in, even if alone. Story Circle can be quite good coupled with propa effects, but a 2 card combo is not what the deck needs. Pariah is a Fog+Removal effect, that can be quite good. Crackdown is good vs thresh, but that's it, it does nothing vs goblin or control. Parallax wave can buy some time, but doesn't take care of Mongeese. Aurification can be nice, but leaves you open to an alpha strike from gobbos or in pain when low on life vs thresh. Worship to combo with Argothian? Form of the dragon is, unfortunately, uncastable.

The good thing about playing a lot of Propa effects is when they come in multiples. Paying 4 mana is something Threshold can't always afford. However, I'd drop the 2 Ghostly Prison if only there was something (non-moat) better.

[ClearSkies]

Doesn't Humility + Moat solve just about any creature problems?
However, it does shut down have of your enchantress effects.

[alebronwebb]

what do people think about SB [c]Titania's Song[/c], i have for a while and is really good against Stax and other artifact heavy decks.

[ClearSkies]

what do people think about SB [c]Titania's Song[/c], i have for a while and is really good against Stax and other artifact heavy decks.

Yea, it is a really good card that shuts down a lot of random stuff.

Like Engineered Explosives, Nevinyrral's Disk, Chalice of the Void, entire affinity deck, and so on.

Maybe it would be a good idea to mainboard it depending on your meta...

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

I had thought about that recently, and I know I've advocated it in the past, but is it really any better than Dovescape?

[ClearSkies]

I had thought about that recently, and I know I've advocated it in the past, but is it really any better than Dovescape?

I don't think it is fair to compare it to Dovescape. Titania's Song removes annoying artifacts in play and doesn't really affect your future enchantment castings. Also, it is cheaper (and easier) than Dovescape to play.

However, Dovescape solves almost all the non-creature problems, but it stops you from playing any more enchantments.

[alebronwebb]

yeah, im going to have to agree with ClearSkies on this one, Dovescape is really good but it hurts (maybe) since we play mostly non-creature, and Dovescape can be hard to cast sometimes.

Titania's Song is quick, takes care of threats already in play, and isn't mana reliant at all.

[alebronwebb]

here's the list i've been running for a while, what do you think.

lands 21
2 Serra's Sanctum
3 Savannah
1 Taiga
4 Windswept Heath
5 Plain
6 Forest

creatures 4
4 Argothian Enchatress

other 36
3 Exploration
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Sterling Grove
2 Solitary Confinement
1 Words of War
1 Sacred Mesa
2 Ground Seal
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Karmic Justice
4 Elephant Grass
1 Moat
2 Sylvan Library
1 Aura of Silence
2 Replenish

SB 15
1 Replenish
2 Ground Seal
2 Choke
1 Sacred Ground
1 Blood Moon
2 City of Solitude
1 Titania's Song
2 Compost
2 Aura of Silence
1 Eyes of the Wisent

I am really considering adding 1 Hoofprints of the Stag MD probably in place of Karmic Justice, i realize that it contradicts Moat. I don't play Moat every game so it might not be a big problem anyways.