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Thread: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

  1. #21

    Re: [Deck] Enchantress (Solitare) - Former DTB

    I'm posting at a friend's house, because I have dialup at home. I've been testing ESG, and it turnsout that it's much better than I'd found it to be in the past. I added three, dropping the aura of silence, ROL, and a forest.

    More testnig to follow.
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  2. #22

    Re: [Deck] Enchantress (Solitare) - Former DTB

    i find when i used to use ESG i had crazy explosive starts then died to do nothing.

    now i dont have it, i dont have hte explosive start ,but i feel like i win more.

  3. #23

    Re: [Deck] Enchantress (Solitare) - Former DTB

    Quote Originally Posted by burkey_boy View Post
    i find when i used to use ESG i had crazy explosive starts then died to do nothing.

    now i dont have it, i dont have hte explosive start ,but i feel like i win more.
    Nice grammar. Uhh, I'm not sure how I feel about ESG right now. I tested for like eight hours against WR goblins, GR goblins, UGW grow, UGR grow, UGRW grow, and BHWC landstill. And some shitty zoo and 43 land, but I'm pretty sure they don't count as matchups. I've come up with the following:

    -Cutting a forest and a random card for a trop and a Trade Routes is bad.
    -My cutting the red splash for the blue splash was pretty poor. Let me write it out: (previous list as the starting list)
    -1 Slyvan library
    -1 Seal of Fire
    -2 Taiga
    -1 Words of War
    -Squee
    -Rule of Law
    +2 Trop
    +1 Words of War
    +2 Clouds of Faeries
    +2 Seal of Removal

    My board included some trash that I threw together. Conclusion: Playing the blue splash is much harder to goldfish. Testing against another person is a must. Or just a better player. I found that I was just waiting to go infinite, until I got pwn'd by whatever clock the other deck had. Maybe if I had a combo to play against it would have turned out differently. I think this is one where having multiple libraries would have been nice, but I didn't see anything else to cut. Any blue players out there? I'd like some feedback, and I think that it has mad side-board potential.

    (back to the orrigional me making points)
    -ESG is good to draw almost any time, contrary to my beliefs. I tested both three and four, in bith red and blue, and settled on running none. I don't like cuttin gbusinesss spells for more mana, 'specially when it doesn't have such an astronomicial (sp?) impact. It kicks ass to go: Forest, ESG, Sprawl, whatever two cost spell you want. But that didn't happen enough for me. Unless I want to ramp it up to five or six, and not play in sanctioned events (or in the company of anyone with any wits), I don't think I'll play it. SOmeboyd needs to play in a big tournament, and not do shitty, and post their results. I'm tired of fucking Aggro/loam from the germans (no hate on the germans - I just want to see you playing enchantress, instead of crappy confinement terravore decks. Yeah, I went there.). Go out and win!
    -Dropping a forest for a trop might be a good idea. No foolin, either. Frees up some ridiculous side-boarding hottness:
    -In the Eye of Chaos (actual name? blue world enchantment from Legends)
    -Energy Flux. I had a hard time with affinity. But Titania's Song (no joke) might be a better option. I feel the need to write "no joke" again. It's in our real colors, kills affinity's lands, makes cranial plating not a scarry idea, chalice gets pwnt, nevvy's disk gets destroyed, and crucible (this actually might be worth putting in our board, boys). I'm buying two before I break the format further
    -Meddling mage? I like to have three examples whenever I'm explaining something. Kind of fell short here, though. (Don't play meddling mage)

    I also dropped the spreading algae from my board in favor of a second spiritual focus (I need a way to beat TES and IGGY). I'm kind of running out of ideas here, so I'm gongi to sign off. For motivation, just re-read my notes on ESG.
    The E.P.I.C. Syndicate: I mean, if they play a lullaby for babies they should at least play the Monster Mash when somebody dies.
    Quote Originally Posted by herbig View Post
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  4. #24
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    Re: [Deck] Enchantress (Solitare) - Former DTB

    hi

    i play Dark Depths as a win condition and it's a cool card
    removing 10 counters is easy with this deck and if your apponent doesn't play StP, it's game
    colorless mana is not a problem since i run only 1 Dark Depths
    what do you think of this card?

    i tried confiscate too
    it was not a bad card
    someone tried it too?

    tomjulioo

  5. #25
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    Re: [Deck] Enchantress (Solitare) - Former DTB

    Quote Originally Posted by tomjulioo View Post
    hi

    i play Dark Depths as a win condition and it's a cool card
    removing 10 counters is easy with this deck and if your apponent doesn't play StP, it's game
    colorless mana is not a problem since i run only 1 Dark Depths
    what do you think of this card?

    i tried confiscate too
    it was not a bad card
    someone tried it too?

    tomjulioo
    Because it does nothing useful until you have Serra's Sanctum & a board full of enchantments anyway...at which point you should be winning. Also, unlike Sacred Mesa, it neither fuels your draw engine, creates more creatures or folds to the best (and most commonly played) creature removal in the format. STP looooooves Dark Depths, Pegasi tokens? Not so much.... What is Confiscate in for? By the time you can cast it, the deck probably has better things to be doing.
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  6. #26
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    Re: [DTW] Enchantress (Solitare)

    Hi Partypeople,

    Thanks for proving that "The most beautiful Deck" is still / again competitive; Im in love with it since I started playing in the early Days of Urza :-)
    Now folks, theres one thing: I finally put this deck together and am gonna attend a tourney this weekend. However I wasn't able to retrieve the two [CARD]Moat[CARD] i want to put into the list; the rest is almost 100% lonelybaritone's list.
    I really DO know how crucible (meaning saving-my-ass) Moat can be to the deck. Still I need to replace it's two spots with alternatives.

    What can you "recommend" to at least try and replace the Moats with?

    Thanks, Julian
    Last edited by Julian23; 04-04-2007 at 05:54 PM.

  7. #27
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    Re: [DTW] Enchantress (Solitare)

    Quote Originally Posted by Julian23 View Post
    Hi Partypeople,

    Thanks for proving that "The most beautiful Deck" is still / again competitive; Im in love with it since I started playing in the early Days of Urza :-)
    Now folks, theres one thing: I finally put this deck together and am gonna attend a tourney this weekend. However I wasn't able to retrieve the two /&/[CARD]Moat[/CARD] i want to put into the list; the rest is almost 100% lonelybaritone's list.
    I really DO know how crucible (meaning saving-my-ass) Moat can be to the deck. Still I need to replace it's two spots with alternatives.

    What can you "recommend" to at least try and replace the Moats with?

    Thanks, Julian
    You probably don't want to play the deck without at least one Moat. Parallax Wave should replace the other one. If you can't even play 1, I honestly might throw the Squee back in, because Confinement lock is going to be so much more important without Moat.

  8. #28

    Re: [DTW] Enchantress (Solitare)

    Quote Originally Posted by Julian23 View Post
    What can you "recommend" to at least try and replace the Moats with?
    Welcome to the source, Julian. Also:

    OMG We're now officially a deck to watch. Righteous.

    Well, I would main-board 4 elephant grasses, and add 2 Ghostly prisons (brignign it to three) mainboarded. I'm not sure what you'd drop. RUle of Law, if you're playing it. I really don't think it belongs.

    And, in moat-owner news, I may drop one in favor of a second Ghostly Prison. It helps beat faerie stompy, on account of they just fly over moat, comes down turn two against goblins and other random agro, and doesn't have the WW in its cost, which can be arduous to pull out against goblins after they get wastes and ports out.
    The E.P.I.C. Syndicate: I mean, if they play a lullaby for babies they should at least play the Monster Mash when somebody dies.
    Quote Originally Posted by herbig View Post
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  9. #29
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    Re: [DTW] Enchantress (Solitare)

    I dunno; with all the hype about Slivers and Fish and X Stompy ousting Threshold, it makes me wonder how useful Moat is going to continue to be. If the hype is empty, it's another story, but it seems like there are a lot of flyers running around these days.

    Additional Squees/Prisons/Grasses might be a better choice ATM.
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  10. #30
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    Re: [DTW] Enchantress (Solitare)

    Quote Originally Posted by lonelybaritone View Post
    OMG We're now officially a deck to watch. Righteous.
    You know this is all because of you, right?

    I still like the Squee to maintain the lock much faster. At the very least it seems like it will make more people scoop it up, which is nice. I also enjoy 4 maindeck Elephant Grass, and Ghostly Prison just feels better than Rule of Law. Much better suggestions than mine.

    Speaking of Rule of Law, how have you found it to be? I find that it's even more dead than Ghostly Prison in a lot of matchups. Against a large range of decks, Rule of Law is going to hurt you more than them, so you can't even play it for a cantrip effect ::sadface::

  11. #31

    Re: [DTW] Enchantress (Solitare)

    In the interest of getting people to play a more optimal list, Here is the one I have this very moment. Prolly not what I'm bringing to Kadilak's duel for duals, on account of I'm going to hold out on the super secret tech. Man's gotta draw the line somewhere.

    4/5/07

    Land (20):
    Forest x6
    Plains x2
    Taiga x2
    Savannah x4
    Serra's Santum x2
    Windswept Heath x4

    Acceleration (10):
    Sylvan Library x2
    Utopia Sprawl x4
    Exploration x4

    Engine (8):
    Argothian Enchantress x4
    Enchantress's Presence x4

    Toolbox 'n Such (16):
    Elephant Grass x3
    Moat x2
    Ghostly Prison x1
    Karmic Justice x1
    Sterling Grove x4
    City of Solitude x1
    Seal of Fire x1
    Aura of Silence x1
    Seal of Primordium x1
    Holistic Wisdom x1

    "Do you even play a win condition?" (6):
    Solitary Confinement x4
    Words of War x1
    Sacred Mesa x1

    The 61st card that you shouldn't play (1):
    Squee, Gobin Naboob (haha - boob) x1

    Sideboard (30):
    City of Solitude x1
    Sacred Ground x1
    Elephant Grass x1
    Null Chamber x1
    Aura of Silence x1
    Karmic Justice x1
    Choke x2
    Spiritual Focus x2
    Seal of Fire x2
    Rule of Law x3
    Pegasus Token x15 (Some chump stole five of my pegasuses. I'll stab yo' ass if I ever find out who. No foolin'.)

    Deep Thoughts, with Jack Handey (1):
    "If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason."

    I'm thinking -1 Moat, +1 Elephant grass, replace elephant grass in board with a ghostly prison. Anyone have any violent objections?
    The E.P.I.C. Syndicate: I mean, if they play a lullaby for babies they should at least play the Monster Mash when somebody dies.
    Quote Originally Posted by herbig View Post
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  12. #32
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    Re: [DTW] Enchantress (Solitare)

    The 61st card that you shouldn't play (1):
    Squee, Gobin Naboob (haha - boob) x1
    Another member of Team Epic cured from having shit in their fur.

    I am really proud of you guys.

    I am unsure as to the strength of rule of law in the board. It seems like it would be good against you, not for you. Against Solidarity it makes Remand wonderful against you until they can bounce it and win. Against TES, doesn't it give them enough time to wish for tranquility?

  13. #33
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    Re: [DTW] Enchantress (Solitare)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ewokslayer View Post
    I am unsure as to the strength of rule of law in the board. It seems like it would be good against you, not for you. Against Solidarity it makes Remand wonderful against you until they can bounce it and win. Against TES, doesn't it give them enough time to wish for tranquility?
    Your options against combo are pretty few, and most of them have some backlash. We're currently working on some SVG TEK! but right now RoL is better than nothing. You're also supplementing it with Null Chamber/Aura of Silence vs TES, and Sterling Grove/City of Solitude vs Solidarity.

    List
    Is 2x Taiga, 4x Heath and 4x Sprawl enough to cast an early SoF if you need to? It seems like another Taiga might smooth things out.
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  14. #34

    Re: [DTW] Enchantress (Solitare)

    Quote Originally Posted by SpatulaOfTheAges View Post
    SVG TEK!
    Guys, you aren't even goign to know what happens here. By the time Spatula and I get done with enchantress, it'll be like if Trix could have the uruk shaman loop. LotR + Magic FTW. however, in real news.

    Is 2x Taiga, 4x Heath and 4x Sprawl enough to cast an early SoF if you need to? It seems like another Taiga might smooth things out.
    Yeah, sometimes I find it difficult to play it games 2 & 3. But game 1 it isn't an issue, because I only run 2 red cards main. And against most of the matchups other than Survival I'd have to worry about Land destruction (goblins, madness). I guess most Zoo decks you wouldn't have to worry about, either. I'll test adding a tiaga in the place of a forest, going to 3 and 5, respectively. Damnit, even after I ordered my P3K basics...
    The E.P.I.C. Syndicate: I mean, if they play a lullaby for babies they should at least play the Monster Mash when somebody dies.
    Quote Originally Posted by herbig View Post
    If I see you in NY/I'll send you an invite/You gon' need a pass/That's the code that we live by.

  15. #35
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    Re: [DTW] Enchantress (Solitare)

    This may be a bad idea because I dont play enchantress and don't know anything about it at all. Combo seems like it would be a horrendous match up. I'm not sure if you guys need to dedicate a lot of your board against it like wombat does, but gilded light / orim's chant seem like they would be better vs combo than the choices you have. Although you wouldnt have as much card draw from having less enchantments, it would still be more productive. Gilded light can cycle, and it isn't too bad against decks with a lot of targeting hand disruption or even burn decks. Chant could buy a little time against quicker creature decksalso. If you have weaker slots you could always board them in Not that you would necessarily need to board both but just an idea.
    Last edited by Awesomator; 04-08-2007 at 08:43 PM.
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  16. #36
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    Re: [DTW] Enchantress (Solitare)

    I still don't like Sprawl in this deck at all, at the cost of accelerating your deck early in 1/4 games you added 4 cards that are not "Must Counter" cards which sucks when the other person runs Force and such. I think it be much stronger to bump i up to 4x Elephant Grass (since it rips), the Squee (since its a 2 card combo with Confinement or maybe 3 with Grove that ends the game vs. over 2/3 of the field), then 2x Savage tech (maybe a second Moat if you only run 1x).
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  17. #37
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    Re: [DTW] Enchantress (Solitare)

    Quote Originally Posted by dontbiteitholmes View Post
    I still don't like Sprawl in this deck at all, at the cost of accelerating your deck early in 1/4 games you added 4 cards that are not "Must Counter" cards which sucks when the other person runs Force and such. I think it be much stronger to bump i up to 4x Elephant Grass (since it rips), the Squee (since its a 2 card combo with Confinement or maybe 3 with Grove that ends the game vs. over 2/3 of the field), then 2x Savage tech (maybe a second Moat if you only run 1x).
    Realistically you need the acceleration for a number of reasons;

    A)You need a second turn Enchantress. This means running some acceleration, because half of your Enchantresses cost 3 mana.
    B)You also need cheap cantrips to combo off quickly and dig for whatever tools you need. Wild Growth is free after the first turn, and the turn after its played it increases mana.
    C)Adding more "must-counters" might be good if the format was all slow control, but against a varied and fast meta-game, you have to face a clock and the fact that you just don't have an infinite amount of must-counters available. Moat isn't a must-counter for a lot of decks, neither is Elephant Grass. Squee sure isn't. Without acceleration, if you didn't draw an Argothian, you're talking about not doing anything before turn 3; all that most aggro-control decks need now is a Daze and a counterspell to buy enough time to seal you out.
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  18. #38
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    Re: [DTW] Enchantress (Solitare)

    Quote Originally Posted by SpatulaOfTheAges View Post
    Realistically you need the acceleration for a number of reasons;

    A)You need a second turn Enchantress. This means running some acceleration, because half of your Enchantresses cost 3 mana.
    B)You also need cheap cantrips to combo off quickly and dig for whatever tools you need. Wild Growth is free after the first turn, and the turn after its played it increases mana.
    C)Adding more "must-counters" might be good if the format was all slow control, but against a varied and fast meta-game, you have to face a clock and the fact that you just don't have an infinite amount of must-counters available. Moat isn't a must-counter for a lot of decks, neither is Elephant Grass. Squee sure isn't. Without acceleration, if you didn't draw an Argothian, you're talking about not doing anything before turn 3; all that most aggro-control decks need now is a Daze and a counterspell to buy enough time to seal you out.
    You're still running Exploration, which I feel is all the acceleration you need.
    Against aggro control (which I feel is the most important matchup at this point) if you "accelerate" then that one card you used to boost into a turn 2 Presence or w/e could have been something on the order of Elephant Grass #4, Squee (which makes all 4 Confinements a must counter), Mirris Guile #3 (I don't like Library), or that one more silver bullet. So say your playing vs. Meathooks (which I feel is about to become very popular). They let your Wild Growth resolve then just hold the Daze/Force/Counter for your Presence or w/e. In my world either Guile is digging turns 2 and 3 + Fetch lands maybe shuffling increasing your card quality, or Elephant Grass is buying you extra turns by forcing them to either attack or play creatures, or Squee is sitting there ready to turn a resolved Confinement into a win condition, or w/e card #60 is is ready to do it's worst. Now I just either increased my card quality, bought myself extra turns, turned 4 cards in my deck into enchantments that say "You Win", or w/e else (I'm partial to Parallax Wave for card #60 just because of Meddling Mage seeing play, but it's really a personal choice).
    That's just the way I see it, but I think it comes down to this. You see Enchantress as a combo deck with heavy control elements, I see it as a heavy control deck with a retarded draw engine. Just thought I'd make my opinions known at any rate since I am very partial to this deck.
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  19. #39

    Re: [DTW] Enchantress (Solitare)

    Change in the list! Switch Deep Thought to:

    "Any man, in the right situation, is capable of murder. But not any man is capable of being a good camper. So, murder and camping are not as similar as you might think."

    More Importantly, allow me to address some of the talk:
    @Awesomator - I tested orim's chant for a while, and I'm pretty sure that it doesn't belong. Gilded light is really only good agianst tendrils combo, and at that, tendrils combo without counterspells. Like, if they're playing the current (as far as I've seen) IGGY pop incarnation, with FOW mained and orim's in the board, then orim's chant will only be something that they'd play around it game two they'd see it ocming and just wait to go off. And gilded light is teh suk against solidarity and IGGY pop. Against TES it's only good against one of its win conditions, and they can play around it if they're any good. I mean, if it's in response to tendrils, it's good - I'll give you that. But games two and three they'll just get like twelve tokens turn one, and rain on your parade. They're cool ideas, but certainly only in the board, and that makes them kind of not good enough for me. I want something I can tutor with with Grove.

    @dontbiteitholmes - Allow me to answer this as maturely as possible: Have you been drinking? Seriously, man. Trading acceleration for more must-counters is probably the worst thing you could do to this deck. I understand that it's inabliblty to enchant any land makes it kind of shitty. Well, not really, but I have found myself wanting to drop it on a basic plains (usually if I'm on two lands against something that can mill non-basics - seriously, like half my team seems to have nerd wood for Red Death. Good job, anwar) once in a while, but that's usually when I'm hard up for lands. I can't even think of what I'd run if I had four extra spaces. Allow me to be candid with the choices that come to mind:
    -Ivory Mask: No. WW is almost always a no-no (notable exceptions include moat). It's a great lock with moat against goblins, but, then, so is an enchantress with worship out.
    -Worship: If it read "your life cannot go below 1" or even platnium angel text, I'd go nuts for it. But, as it stands, it would only help out matches you should be winning anyway.
    -Squee: No, no, a thousand times no! Squee doesn't belong in the deck! If you want to play squee confinement, then run more than one of him. I did at the GAGG, and it got me second. But that was before I saw the light. Squee is always a dead card when you draw him. Unless you're comboing out that turn five with double grove/confinement/wincondition on talbe, you don't want to draw into him. And, even then, you only really want him if your opponent doesn't main board needles and you have mesa on table. Otherwise, I'd rather just draw an enchantment. I've had to hardcast him more often than win games with him. ANd it's taken me a long time to say goodbye. But once you do it, you'll feel better, like I do.
    -Fertile Ground: No. Costs two, and I'm not putting up with that. Turn two is when I drop enchantress's presence/argothian + 1cc enchantment. Fo' sho, broseph.
    Bottom line: Don't cut utopia sprawl. It's nuts acceleration, 'specially with ESG if you play her (it's like cheating to get a turn 1 enchantress), it gets you that double white or single red agianst wastelocks and goblins, and cantrips. That's like... almost as good as Anaba Grunt.

    I'll let you guys know if I'ma spoil some of the SVG TEK - spatula's been earnign his pay lately.
    The E.P.I.C. Syndicate: I mean, if they play a lullaby for babies they should at least play the Monster Mash when somebody dies.
    Quote Originally Posted by herbig View Post
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  20. #40
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    Re: [DTW] Enchantress (Solitare)

    Its really good to see my favorite deck as one of the top dogs again in the format!

    I noticed that you said you wanted to see a G/W/U build of Enchantress, which happens to be exactly what I play (have been for 3 years). While it is hard to get the hang of it at first, I sincerely think that it is better than the G/W/R version.

    Please note though, that in my meta, there are few goblin decks, so changes to fit the meta at large will probably be needed:

    Land:
    4 Windswept Heath
    4 Savanna
    4 Tropical Island
    4 Forest
    2 Plains
    2 Island
    2 Serra's Sanctum

    Creatures:
    4 Argothian Enchantress
    2 Cloud of Faeries

    Enchantments:
    4 Enchantress's Presence
    4 Exploration
    4 Utopia Sprawl
    4 Sterling Grove
    3 Solitary Confinement
    3 Sylvan Library
    3 Seal of Cleansing
    2 Words of Wind
    1 Holistic Wisdom

    Other:
    3 Living Wish
    1 Stroke of Genius

    Sideboard:
    4 Elephant Grass
    3 City of Solitude
    2 Karmic Justice
    1 Viridian Zealot
    1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
    1 Eternal Witness
    1 Cloud of Faeries
    1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
    1 Serra's Sanctum


    You should know why most of the cards in the deck are there, so I shouldn't have to explain anything (no moat, because I am unable to find someone selling one for a price I deem appropriate) in much detail except upon your request.

    I suggest trying out my build (remember, you don't have to go infinite ASAP, you just have to try to lock them down, or start beating with Akroma ASAP) and making changes based on what you discover. Good luck.
    Ich bin aueslander und sprechen nicht gut Deutsch

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