So, it looks like I can make it to FNM this week and I'd like to try out Enchatress, now that I have (pretty much) all the cards (all I seem to be missing from every list I can find is Eidolon of the Blossoms, which some people don't even run).
I am leaning toward a GWb list, because Doomwake seems neat and I can see him swinging some fair matchups my way. I am also looking at 3 maindeck RIP with a Helm, because almost every deck in our local meta is looking to use it's Graveyard in some way, plus I like the"oops, I win" factor as well.
My only concern is that there may be as many as three Storm decks, but I feel like if I make the main to beat the fair decks, then I can load the sideboard with plenty of hate for those combo decks.
Any thoughts on GWb right now?
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
I think GWb is the best choice at the moment. Doomwake is just great and sideboard plague might be useful as well. Next week I will play a small tournament and will also use enchantress.
All the best and looking forward to your results.
As you guys can gather (or not!) from the questions above, I'm looking to build this. I'm slightly confused about the reason for the choice of a particular win con. The one's I've seen are:
Emmy
RIP+Helm
Sigil
Luminarch Ascension
and the probably outdated Sacred Mesa
What is the reason why some decks play for example Emmy/RIP+Helm in the main and Sigil on the side? When / why would they bring Sigil in? I've also seen decklists running all three main. On the other hand, I've seen lists without Emmy, or with Emmy on the side?
If anyone can provide some light, it would be appreciated. I made a search on the thread, and other than mentions to Emmy bein a 'win more' there was no clear reasoning I could find for a particular combination of choices.
Many thanks!
I have a guy locally that plays enchantress only.
He is currently testing two monastery mentors in the sideboard. I've been really impressed with those, as they just win the game. He play RiP+Helm as well as Emrakul in the maindeck as winconditions, with 4x Enchantress, 1x Eidelon of Blossoms as creatures.
That certainly seems like a good plan versus decks that don't play much removal, or take some out since they aren't good versus Enchantress herself.Originally Posted by Quasim0ff
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
one strategy against deck is to let everything happen and counter the win condition. Emrakul prevents that as out cannot be countered. RIP helm is good because it can be a quick win somewhat out of nowhere. Also RIP is a powerful hate card that is decent main boardable.
After a couple of tournaments after I picked up my lovely enchantress after many years I changed the list a bit seeking the "perfect" list. I lost many games due to unstability of the deck and it was always very painful. I finaly added Emrakul just because it cant be countered so I can paly fewer win-cons and therefore I can play more "stabilazors" I would really appriciate what do you think.
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Emrakul
4 Enchantress Presence
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Elephant Grass
3 Mirri's Guile
3 Sterling Grove
3 Rest In Peace
3 Solitari Confinement
1 Blood Moon
1 Helm of Obedience
8 Forest
2 Plains
1 Savannah
1 Taiga
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Serra's Sanctum
SB:
4 Leyling of Sanctity
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Humility
1 Containment Priest
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Krosan Grip
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Karmic Justice
As you can see there are only two win-cons which is really very little but it works so far. One Blood Moon is the only really fringe card in the main but I think we really want one because of 12post, bug, jund and so on.
After I beat my friend in the mirror - wonderful games - we were discussing some aspects of the deck. How can we justify not playing 4 GSZ? I think we really really want enchantress on the board - if we could play 8 we would do it - so why not 4 GSZ? I dont understand how can anybody play Eidolon and not 4 GSZ. I still dont get what is the point of Eidolon if we dont play Replenish.
I have also 3 RIP which I like more and more. A good way how to kill ANT G1. (good players dont have Ad Nauseam anymore; that is why Leylines are so good) And 3 Solitary Confinement which I think is the best possible protection - with one enchantress on board its a good timewalk and with two and Mirri's Guile it is usually the game. Shaman is kept in check by RIP.
Mabye I could play one Karakas instead of Plains. But I like the list without anything fancy (except for the Blood Moon) keeping the manacurve as low as possible. I also belive we dont want more that two Sanctum - our draws; spells, lands are clunky enough. And we only need one when we are comboing off to cast Emrakul and at the end of the day we can be perfectly fine without it.
Humility in the board is mainly against Elves (they cant beat it - althought it is slow), same for S+T, 12post. I also belive that miracles cant be very though. If they have CB-TOP online nad three on top it is extreamly hard for us to win hence grips.
Some Enchantress list seem to me to be very greedy. A pile of staff. I hope you can see my focus here. I am not saying it is perfect but I hope it is the way.
Thank you very much for any comments.
Tomáš
I'm sure Mentor can perform well and close out games, but despite not having tested it myself I'm not sold on it. It's going to be best in fair matchups but we're already good in fair matchups (made even better by Doomwake Giant) so I don't like the fact it's hogging sideboard slots from cards that can help against less fair decks.
You list looks perfectly good, if tuned for your specific metagame (as it should be). I can throw out some alternate opinions on certain card choices but that certainly doesn't make those choices wrong at all. Dryad arbor seems to be a personal choice for some but I think it creates too many bad draws and putting a wild growth effect on it is the worst feeling in the world. Blood Moon locks multiple decks straight out of games if you're facing those decks a lot but is dead in a fair number of matches if you're not. I'm not a fan of Blood Moon and Mirri's guile in the same deck because I want to be able to shuffle bad cards away with fetches and play a few extra (as you do too). Also you say you don't see the point of Eidolon if we're not playing Replenish but note how great 4 GSZ is. Having a target which turns GSZ into a cantrip has turned out to be huge in my experience and call pull you out of having to get rid of Confinement. And speaking of Confinement I've tested going down to just 2 and found that's perfectly fine. Again that isn't a hard and fast rule or anything but I think that if you're looking to test more slots it's a place you can try and cut.
From your sideboard I really don't like Karmic Justice. I've tried it over and over and was always basically always disappointed before ultimately cutting it. It ends up acting like a move expensive Sterling Grove that can't be used to fetch something.
Hi all!
I will probably be playing Enchantress in an 8 man tournament tomorrow (proxies allowed). I have made a prediction of the metagame as follows, based on what decks I know they play:
Opponent A: 50% Miracles/25% Reanimator/25% Sneak and Show
Opponent B: Elves
Opponent C: 70% Goblins/30% Storm
Opponent D: 50% UR Delver/50% UWR Stoneblade
Opponent E: 50% Maverick/50% Knight of the Reliquary+Retreat to Coralhelm combo
Opponent F: 70% Mono black homebrew/30% BR Minotaur stompy homebrew with trinisphere
Opponent G: unknown
How good/bad is this meta for Enchantress in general?
My attempt at a build:
Enchantment
3x Elephant Grass
4x Enchantress's Presence
1x Exploration
3x Mirri's Guile
1x Oblivion Ring
2x Rest in Peace
2x Solitary Confinement
1x Sphere of Safety
3x Sterling Grove
4x Utopia Sprawl
4x Wild Growth
Sorcery
4x Green Sun's Zenith
Land
1x Bayou
1x Dryad Arbor
7x Forest
1x Karakas
1x Plains
1x Savannah
2x Serra's Sanctum
2x Verdant Catacombs
4x Windswept Heath
Creature
4x Argothian Enchantress
1x Doomwake Giant
1x Eidolon of Blossoms
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Artifact
1x Helm of Obedience
Sideboard
1x Aegis of the Gods
1x City of Solitude
1x Engineered Plague
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Humility
2x Krosan Grip
4x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Replenish
1x Sigil of the Empty Throne
1x Suppression Field
Does this build look reasonable? What would you change?
So, with all the murmuring of a new "Eternal" Legacy format without the restricted list, what does it mean for us? Will it make our deck better or worse?
Well, I wouldn't put much stock in that rumor. I don't expect Wizards to ban the Reserve List from Legacy for a multitude of reasons.
That said, I think the deck would take a huge kick in the groin. Banning the Reserve List cards means Enchantress loses Helm, Serra's Sanctum, and Replenish from the arsenal.
I was a late adopter to the Helm/RiP build, but it's a huge boon to the deck. The ability to end games quickly, without (multiple) Enchantress effects is not to be underestimated, and neither is packing mainboard copies of the most powerful gravehate ever printed. And this applies to speed in terms of both turns and time elapsed.
Serra's Sanctum is a great tool when "going off", no matter how you've built the deck. Losing it slows the deck by at least half a turn, on average, if not more. Plus, casting Emrakul is probably out of the question without Sanctum.
Replenish might be a non-bo with the Helm/RiP package, but it's still an insanely bomby card if you aren't running that. I wouldn't ever want to run a traditional Mesa/WoW list without this card, and I suspect a G/W/b list with Doomwake and friends would miss this tech as well.
Basically, the best win conditions are gone as is a huge speed boost in Sanctum. In isolation, the deck looks very poorly positioned, with maybe a G/W/b Constellation build being less crippled.
Looking at the format as a whole is another matter. Aggro gets a big boost from shocklands becoming the format standard and the Solitaire gameplan is very strong against beatdown. Enchantress' worst matchups, stack-based combo decks, are also hit hard by the loss of LED. I don't think this would keep them down entirely, but it might push down their metagame share. Enchantress might be well-positioned (and may also be the only viable prison deck given that Diamond/Monolith/City/Metalworker are on the RL and are lynchpins of other prison strategies).
Again, all of this is academic, since "Unreserved", "Eternal", or whatever is likely not going to happen.
I wont really mind, would suck losing Replenish and Sanctum, but I'll probably just work on my mana base a bit, i'm stubborn like that.
By the way, I've always wondered but have not gone around to trying it as I do not possess the card. Do you guys think that trying to trim down on some cards, and adding Gitaxian Probe could help? It does replace itself, and sometimes having the info you need wwther you can safely cast enchantress now or wait a turn later would be very nice. Or knowing that you need to aggressively set up your defense now, or if you have a little more time to set up will be good as well.
But yes, it is not an enchantment, but it does replace itself.
Freggle and I tested Probe in late 2013/early 2014. We discuss it here.
My friend Curtis continues to put up results with Enchantress, and as long as he continues not to have an account on The Source I'll continue to post the results on his behalf so you can keep up to date on developments in his list. This time, it's a top 8 at the EE4 Satellite in Newington, CT (98 participants, 7 rounds of swiss). He's recently added some spice to the list, and I'm glad we finally had a reasonably large tournament in the area so he could post a result worth sharing with you folks.
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Green Sun’s Zenith
4 Enchantress’s Presence
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Eladamri's Vineyard
4 Elephant Grass
4 Mirri's Guile
1 Exploration
4 Rest in Peace
2 Solitary Confinement
4 Windswept Heath
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Forest
1 Plains
4 Serra's Sanctum
1 Savannah
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Sterling Grove
1 Journey to Nowhere
2 Guard Duty
2 Aura of Silence
2 Pithing Needle
Well, I'm going to try again, last time I meant to build Enchantress for FNM but various real-life things kept me from getting it done. This week I already have the "core" of the deck sleeved up, so I will try something out this week. Looking at a basic GWb list, I want to max out against fair decks, as that is what our locals have been looking like lately. Based off the outdated GW list from Megadeus and adding Black, I come to this:
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Doomwake Giant
1 Enlightened Tutor
3 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Banishing Light
1 Solitary Confinement
1 Sphere of Safety
1 Exploration
4 Elephant Grass
3 Mirri's Guile
3 Rest in Peace
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Sterling Grove
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Plains
1 Bayou
1 Savannah
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Serra's Sanctum
4 Windswept Heath
7 Forest
Is one Exploration worth it? I don't own an Eidolon, so that is out for now. Is the one Enlightened Tutor worth it?
Keep in mind, I am a noob with Enchantress, so I'd like to keep the list as sleek as possible, to make mulligan decisions as easy as possible, since I've never played it before. Local meta is heavy on GB/X decks, Shardless, Jund, etc along with URW Blade and some random other things like MUD. Some combo is possible, but I am fine with dealing with that post board.
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
I normally wouldn't support 4 Sterling Grove, but it makes a lot of sense if your meta is heavy on GBx decks. IMO, there is no reason to run fewer than 4 GSZ. You're essentially saying that you're OK with fewer enchantress effects, and I think that's wrong. Tutor seems fine since you're running it's a lot of singletons. I think that actually moves away from the sleekness you're looking for the deck to achieve, but I'm biased by Curtis's list. Exploration is very good when you have your engine going and rarely before. A one-of allows you explosive plays without having too many enchantments that don't impact the board in the early game, which is exactly where I think the deck wants to be. If you have more green fetch lands, I'd run them to support your splash more effectively and synergize with guile.
Well, as I said, I am definitely a noob, having never played the deck before. While the list you shared certainly seems good, I think it is more the more advanced Enchantress player, which I am certainly not. 4 GSZ seems more correct and I wasn't too sold on Tutor, except it does make winning with Helm a bit more probable (while still having other utility). I don't think I am fully against removing it for a GSZ.
How many fetches do you think is right for a splash? 7? There is only 1 Black card and it does cost 5.
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
Didn't mean to come off as critical - trying to fit in feedback during my rushed lunch break. The deck is definitely a blast to play and watch, so I hope you enjoy it. I actually missed the Wooded Foothills in your list, so 1 or 2 more might be nice. I'd actually say that adding in Dryad Arbor would be really helpful if there are lots of GBx lists in your meta. Cracking a fetch to protect your Argothian Enchantresses from a Liliana edict is a useful line to keep in mind.
It's all good. What worries me about Arbor is that it means yet another Basic Forest less, which opens me to more mulligans and turns on their removal. While it would be nice to have protection from Lili, I don't know that it's worth the risk.
I'm not sure really, I don't want to fall too far into the "optimize for a certain meta" since I wasn't there last week and some people may have changed decks too.
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
Thanks for updating us. Your friend seems like a very strong player to keep putting up these results.
In other new I did want to pop in and say how hyped I am because I'm moving into day two of SCG Philly at 7-2. I also know that another player is 7-2 on Enchantress as well. There could even be a third but I didn't see how his last round went.
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