[Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

[Zach Tartell]

Most importantly, I reckon, Ground Seal helps you mulligan more aggressively.

[AcidFiend]

Anyways so I went down to my local at lunch time today, found a Legacy player lurking around (woo). He was playing Naya Burn, we played 5 games without sideboards, here's what went down:

Game 1:
I never saw a Sterling/Solitary/Elephant Grass, he had 3 Wild Nacatls and 2 Price of Progress (I had 3 non-basics). GG.

Game 2:
I never see my third land, Wild Nacatl and Kird Apes eat me.

Game 3:
I take early beatings despite an elephant grass, I'm on 9. Get Solitary in play with an Argothian. Next turn double Ground Seal. Get a Presence next turn, my hand is now full of enchantments, he concedes.

Game 4: Argothian + Presence + Solitary, 5 enchantments in hand, he scoops.

Game 5: Again I have my engine and Solitary. Scoopage.

Conclusions: I really think this matchup is favoured for us, but its definitely a race. Get Elephant Grass down to slow them, land a Solitary on turn 4 and you're sweet. Without sounding like a broken record, Ground Seals were sweet for me, allowing me to draw deeper with just the one Argothian, keeping my hand stocked for Solitary.

It was good practice because I didn't realise Naya Burn had Price of Progress maindeck - I'll only be fetching Forests from now on hehe.

[GreenOne]

Yeah, the general rule is "if they're playing burn spells and are not playing counters, they have a deck with Price of Progress".

[Gibbie_X]

Yeah, the general rule is "if they're playing burn spells and are not playing counters, they have a deck with Price of Progress".

I thought the rule was, 'If you are playing mountains, play Price of Progress.' It's that good a card, in my opinion.

[sanmok]

I was wondering (this is purely hypothetical and probably never going to happen...) what enchantress does against like Tempest of Light and Tormod's Crypt.

Tempest of Light 2W

Instant

Destroy all Enchantments


I'm guessing everyone knows what Tormod's Crypt is but I'll put it up anyways.

Tormod's Crypt 0

Artifact

Tap: Sacrifice Tormod's Crypt. Remove all cards in target player's graveyard from the game.


This just seems to wreck enchantress unless enchantress is suppose to win before that. I haven't tested enchantress but I was looking at ways to beat my friends enchantment deck and this came to mind.

[Jaiminho]

Karmic Justic takes care of all destruction issues, unless all your win conditions have just been destroyed and then removed by Crypt -- that would mean you misplayed badly. And even then, Crypt can be stopped proactively by Runed Halo.

[sauce]

Karmic Justic takes care of all destruction issues, unless all your win conditions have just been destroyed and then removed by Crypt -- that would mean you misplayed badly. And even then, Crypt can be stopped proactively by Runed Halo.

yeah or play pithing needle naming relic/crypt cuz runed halo is gonna get wiped away together with the rest of the enchantments...

if you get to replenish its almost always GG right away.

[Illuvator Brightstar]

I was wondering (this is purely hypothetical and probably never going to happen...) what enchantress does against like Tempest of Light and Tormod's Crypt.

Tempest of Light 2W

Instant

Destroy all Enchantments


I'm guessing everyone knows what Tormod's Crypt is but I'll put it up anyways.

Tormod's Crypt 0

Artifact

Tap: Sacrifice Tormod's Crypt. Remove all cards in target player's graveyard from the game.


This just seems to wreck enchantress unless enchantress is suppose to win before that. I haven't tested enchantress but I was looking at ways to beat my friends enchantment deck and this came to mind.

Yeah, it can be rough if it hits an unprepared enchantress player, but as was said, karmic justice can turn it right around to blow up their whole board.

[waSP]

I got roughed up at the GP playing a blue Wish build of Enchantress at the GP. It came down to not resolving Energy Field or Solitary Confinement against Merfolk/Gro. I decided to tweak it a little bit and run some cards that could answer that matchup without giving up too much.

I played in a 20 person weekly tournament last night and 4-0-1'd it (one of my opponents conceded) splitting prizes with the top 4, so I thought I might share to try to draw y'all in a new direction.

61 total
18 for establishing a base
5 Forest
4 Windswept Heath
3 Serra's Sanctum
2 Tropical Island
2 Savannah
2 Chrome Mox

9 for going faster
4 Wild Growth
3 Utopia Sprawl
2 Exploration

10 for winning
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Argothian Enchantress
2 Eladamri's Call

10 for creatures and red spells
3 Solitary Confinement
3 Energy Field
2 Wheel of Sun and Moon
2 Elephant Grass

4 for other permanents
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Seal of Primordium

6 for random wins
3 Words of Wind
3 Sylvan Library

4 for not random wins
2 Replenish
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
1 Cloud of Faeries

15 for a Sideboard
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Sterling Grove
2 Wheel of Sun and Moon
2 Elephant Grass
1 Solitary Confinement
1 Energy Field
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
1 Win condition filler


Matchups
Round 1 - NLU
This is a good matchup. Once Enchantress gets resolved, it's pretty easy to play around with their counterbalance and resolve the IMPORTANT spells. Replenish won the first game (and the second?).

Round 2 - BGr aggro with Top
He had lots and lots of hate. I won game 1 handily. He took game 2 with me not getting good cards and him getting lots of removal and more removal. Game 3 goes to time with me in control. I probably would have taken the match had he not been running SDT. Lucky him.

Round 3 - Jeepers Keepers
Opponent scooped the match.

Round 4 - Goyf Sligh
Easy matchup. He takes game 2 with Pillar and K. Grip.

Top 8 - Eva Green?
Game 1 he loses in the usual way. I don't remember if he won game 2 or not but the last game, I lock him out with Sylvan Library/Words of Wind on turn 4 with no cards in hand. I did not play an Enchantress this game.

Top 4 split. My matchups were pretty easy. A data point for you all.

Sylvan Library/Words of Wind is fantastic. I'd like to fit more Explorations (and lands I guess?) so that it's less susceptible to Force of Will (a viable 2nd way in those matchups).

Sigil was basically unnecessary. I'm still yearning for a better kill. Living Wish was nice for that, but I wanted more flexibility in the sideboard and a faster permanents curve.

This was the first tournament in which I used Elephant Grass. It served a nice purpose, drawing cards mid-going off and forcing opponents to play better (in general they didn't), but I still don't like the card much. It should be too easy to play around it (opponents don't?).

I loved Wheel of Sun and Moon/Energy Field. It's like a good version of Elephant Grass (requiring opponents to build their decks right, rather than just pilot correctly).

[Forbiddian]

I wonder why people run Words of War alongside other win cons. Isn't Words of Wind pretty much strictly better?

I guess there are a few decks that can combo-win if you bounced everything, but they would have won already the turn before. Other than that, no deck can win after an Upheaval, and you can Upheaval easily every turn with Words. So both function as win cons.

The only other plus for Words of War is that it wins that turn, but even under five turn situations, Words of Wind can let you bounce explorations over and over to chain out land to scoop your whole deck. It takes longer in physical time (slightly), but that situation would only matter like:

It's game 2. There are 6 minutes left in the round. I need a win to move on. I need to win in the next minute and then win again in five minutes.

The only other thing that matters is Blood Moon, but we run Utopia Sprawl anyway. It's not harder to get blue than red.


Anyway, pros of Words of Wind:

It only requires usually 4-5 activations to win, instead of 10. At any rate, you will almost always require less than 10 activations to win.

After just 2-3 activations, you set your opponent back quite significantly.

Each Words of Wind activation benefits your deck, especially with an Enchantress in play. You can also bounce your own Sanctums and Explorations to replay Sanctum to generate more mana.

I've used Words of Wind + Ground Seal combo a few times to pay 2G to bounce a permanent. With 6 mana, if your opponent just has lands (he countered your draw engine), you can just bounce all his stuff.

Or like you have Argothian + Ground Seal, so you just pay 2G to draw a few cards and set your opponent back until you draw into something else.

Another cute combo for like a (not) immediate win is Wild Growth x2, Argothian Enchantress, Words of Wind. By turn 4, you can bounce three things a turn without needing to drum on the top of your deck for more answers.


Although in general, I think Words of War is less popular, if you have a 1-of Words, why would you splash for Red and not Blue?

[waSP]

I think people like the idea of being able to cast their spells using opponents Blood Moons? Maybe? Did there used to be a lot of Negators and Hypnotic Specters around? Words of War would be good against those. It's also good at picking off stray Lords.

I bet there's a pretty interesting build that doesn't run white (ack!), but does run blue (Trade Routes, Words of Wind, Brainstorm) and red (Words of War). You'd lose Replenish and Confinement, though, and that could be a dealbreaker. They could come in out of the sideboard.

Words of Wind can be slightly worse than Words of War if you're worried about going to time. Actually winning with Words can take several turns, especially if you don't run an infinite combo. So, if you're relatively inexperienced with the deck, and you go to time a lot, it would be a boon to have a card that could potentially deal 20 damage over 3 turns really consistently.

I've found opponents make me play out the 2nd game win, almost exclusively, and not the first.

Is anyone else currently playing with Words of Winds builds? I'm curious what any of your experiences are or have been.

[Gibbie_X]

I think most people play War over Wind is because you can't screw up shooting someone in the face multiple times. I tried Winds and learned the hard way not to return everything.

Nice build, I like the Wheel/Field combo too. Seems pretty good against everything. The Wheel especially helps against Grindstone. With field, why run Grass at all? I'd cut down on your Replenish count too. This has so sick possibilities man.

[AcidFiend]

I played with Words of Wind (plus Trade Routes etc) for about a year, but I have since switched to GWr (Words of War) and won't be going back.

I think the main reason Wind fell out of favour was because by itself it is not a win condition. It is a win enabler. You can bounce someones permanents to enable a win, but it can't win on its own (ok so you can deck them but no-one has time for that).

Forbiddian: "It only requires usually 4-5 activations to win, instead of 10. At any rate, you will almost always require less than 10 activations to win."

4-5 activations might have you 'winning' but bouncing permanents doesn't strictly win you the game, just makes it easier.

Words of War is the kill card itself. The Wind strategy requires 'Wind + Something'. Also its not how many activations so much as how many turns, in this case usually two. With Wind maybe you can bounce all their stuff in maybe two turns, but still need to deal lethal.

Another reason as stated is just to take out potentially deadly creatures. Say you've been taking beatings from a creature (Tombstalker or something). You can bounce half their permanents, but Tombstalker would hit you for lethal next turn. With Words of War you could have pinged it for 6 fairly easily.

Thats my experience anyways.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

Most importantly, I reckon, Ground Seal helps you mulligan more aggressively.

You're a winner!

WoWind vs. WoWar -

Although I would dearly love to splash blue, for Chill in the SB, mainly, WoWar is generally better because of round time limits, and when you're down to X turns, the ability to WIN RIGHT NOW is something you need.

AcidFiend - I like your list, although I still like ESG. First, for the early game, but also because when going off, and you think you're tapped out, you can randomly mise ESG + Exploration + Sanctum and keep going.

But I do understand the rationale for cutting it.

Also, I'm beginning to think the only reason I'm running Gaea's Touch is some unhealthy obsession.

Also, congrats to Dr. Argon.




Also, also, I've been thinking. It's probably advisable to be as anal as possible about "going off", just because it pisses off the opponent. I mean, break out a notebook, keep track of mana floating of each color, lands played, count each card drawn seperately, etc.

[jazzykat]

Also, also, I've been thinking. It's probably advisable to be as anal as possible about "going off", just because it pisses off the opponent. I mean, break out a notebook, keep track of mana floating of each color, lands played, count each card drawn seperately, etc.

If that is the only reason to do it then I suggest you don't...Karma (of the transcedental and meta physical variety, not cardboard) has a nasty way of coming back to bite you.

[Jaiminho]

Also, I'm beginning to think the only reason I'm running Gaea's Touch is some unhealthy obsession.

I've been running 2 Touch over 2 Exploration. There was a time when I played 1 of each. Touch always had a better effect on the game, except when Exploration would replace an aura (3 Lands + Exploration in your starting hand), so I'm sticking with my configuration.

[georgjorge]

@Words of Wind: I'm curious...how much cards do you usually draw per turn if you start out with a board of something like WoWinds, Presence, random 1-cc-enchantments and 5 mana available? That may be a stupid question, but I just wanted to know how fast it could get you to your "real" win condition of either Mesa or Sigil when time is a concern...?

[Jaiminho]

@Words of Wind: I'm curious...how much cards do you usually draw per turn if you start out with a board of something like WoWinds, Presence, random 1-cc-enchantments and 5 mana available? That may be a stupid question, but I just wanted to know how fast it could get you to your "real" win condition of either Mesa or Sigil when time is a concern...?

You have to replace a draw in order to bounce something, which can't be the enchantment that's triggering the draw. You'd need 2 enchantress effects and 2 enchantments to get "1G: Draw a card".

[waSP]

Words of Wind is a control card. You use it if you want to play this deck like a combo-control deck. See also Oblivion Ring, Solitary Confinement, Elephant Grass, Energy Field, any of the Seals, Words of War, Sacred Mesa, Ground Seal. These are all control cards. Your kill card should be as incidental as possible (see Decree of Justice and Eternal Dragon). This isn't a format of wild swings.

If you are worried about finishing in time, you should run an infinite combo, 3 Words of Wind and 2-3 Cloud of Faeries (sideboarded) in order to be able to complete your rounds on time. You should not be running an inferior control card.

Or you can play like all the control players, quickly. So you can finish your matches on time.

[AcidFiend]

Words of Wind is a control card. You use it if you want to play this deck like a combo-control deck. See also Oblivion Ring, Solitary Confinement, Elephant Grass, Energy Field, any of the Seals, Words of War, Sacred Mesa, Ground Seal. These are all control cards. Your kill card should be as incidental as possible (see Decree of Justice and Eternal Dragon). This isn't a format of wild swings..

Why exactly should our kill card be 'as incidental as possible'? What proof is there that Enchantress decks with 'incidental kill cards' (that are, as your examples seem to be, non-enchantment based) perform better? I don't even know what your 'wild swings' reference attempts to say so I'll ignore that.

If you are worried about finishing in time, you should run an infinite combo, 3 Words of Wind and 2-3 Cloud of Faeries (sideboarded) in order to be able to complete your rounds on time. You should not be running an inferior control card.

Most enchantress decks try to get 1-2 Presence Engine, Solitary + win-stuff. The most popular option for 'win-stuff' is Words of War. Thats already up to 4 cards you need to seal the deal. You suggest adding a 5th card (Cloud of Faeries), which cannot be tutored for, breaks your 'going off' during enchantment rips, and won't come back with Replenish if countered/discarded.

Feel free to test Wind; most have and have come back to War. I'm not sure insinuating that people who don't like Wind simply play too slowly is very constructive either.