Lots of competitive sorta new decks

[Kronicler]

In my opinion slivers is a superior deck to thresh because a) it beats gobos b) it is very hard to hate out, unlike thresh c) it beats goblins d) having all of your creatures untargetable is better than only 4 of them e) it beats goblins and f) because it is more fun to play than thresh (imo). Did I mension it beats goblins?

Kronicler

[iOWN]

For the upcoming GPT, i have the choice between Threshold and Sliver. In your opinion what should i run?

In my opinion, you should play Slivers because it will have more of a surprise factor. It still depends on the meta at the Trial (if you can predict what it is). Anyways, it will probably still come down to which deck your more comfortable with.

[torgar]

If you have the option of dropping chalice at 1 or chalice at zero on the first turn, chalice at one is a much better play.

Ok, fair enough. This is at least a debatable point. I'd still argue for Chalice at zero.

Chalice at 1 also cuts off their counter protection (xantid) as well as Brainstorm, something which you seem to be writing off as inconsiquential, that lets them see 3 cards deeper and fascilitates many turn 1 or 2 kills by getting them the right cards in hand and putting back that 4cc card that they need to tutor for.

The beautiful part about Chalice is that it circumvents their counterprotection. Why do I need to use something that works under Swarm to stop Swarm. The argument might be different for FS as opposed to Stax/MWC/non-blue decks with Chalice here, tho. Still, if my Chalice works regardless of whether Swarm is out, why do I care about using Chalice to stop it. (This is speaking in a Void [haha. omg. I kill myself] not taking into account your secondary hate, whether its Glowrider or FoW, etc.) Brainstorm doesn't facilitate Turn 1 kills.. certainly not without the zero-CC mana.

Finally, Diablos is part of team EPIC and probably tests with Wastedlife all the time. If you don't want to take my word for it, at least take his.

Honestly, no offense intended, I don't give fuck what team anyone hails from. I don't take anyone's word for it. I do my own testing and I know how to and I have beat TES in tournament play.

[Bryant Cook]

Honestly, no offense intended, I don't give fuck what team anyone hails from. I don't take anyone's word for it. I do my own testing and I know how to and I have beat TES in tournament play.

I think you need to calm down a little bit, put your ego aside. Yes, you beat me once in tournament play. In a very close game 3, don't let your ego get the best of you. Kronicler and Diablos are correct.

[torgar]

For the upcoming GPT, i have the choice between Threshold and Sliver. In your opinion what should i run?

Whichever you're better at playing. Whatever you play more.

Which to bring the conversation back to the thread topic, is why I always play Mono White Control. Cause it's got decent game against pretty much everything and my Mirrodin basic plains are so sexy.

[Zach Tartell]

In my opinion, you should play Slivers because it will have more of a surprise factor. It still depends on the meta at the Trial (if you can predict what it is). Anyways, it will probably still come down to which deck your more comfortable with.

Fuck slivers. Trade your FOW's, meddling magi, and blue duals for two moats, and run enchantress. I'll lend you one if you actually do it.

Enchantress is good because under my piloting it has:
- 2-0'd solidarity. Twice. Once while gearhart was playing it.

I win the die roll, go Basic Forest, exploration, plateau, end the turn. Gearhart leans over the table, and taps on my land. "These colors don't beat me," he proclaims confidently.

- lost one match to goblins in 3 55+ player tournaments
- top 8'd 3 times in 2 weeks (has slivers even done anything at a west coast tournament?)
- 6-2'd UB and UBW landstill
- 2-0'd red death
- 4-0'd survival

For serious, my various bros. Enchantress is a tank.

[torgar]

I think you need to calm down a little bit, put your ego aside. Yes, you beat me once in tournament play. In a very close game 3, don't let your ego get the best of you. Kronicler and Diablos are correct.

I wasn't just talking about you. My point was that I don't take "he says so" as a valid form of argument.

Correct about what? Would you say Chalice for 1 on Turn 2 is better than Chalice for zero on Turn 1?

Since I did say Turn 1 Chalice for 1 is a debatable argument. What do you think about Turn1? Setting it at 1 is strictly better than zero? I'm interested in your (or anyone's) opinion, I just haven't heard a convincing argument.

[Awesomator]

In my opinion slivers is a superior deck to thresh because a) it beats gobos b) it is very hard to hate out, unlike thresh c) it beats goblins d) having all of your creatures untargetable is better than only 4 of them e) it beats goblins and f) because it is more fun to play than thresh (imo). Did I mension it beats goblins?

Kronicler

umm are you talking about meathooks? If my opponent doesn't get Crystalline out within a few turns, then the deck gets smashed by goblins. Meathooks isn't anymore than a coin flip against goblins. And if you cant chalice for 1 on turn one then you do chalice for 0, if you chalice for 0 when you could chalice for 1 on turn one, then that would be really stupid.

[Bryant Cook]

I wasn't just talking about you. My point was that I don't take "he says so" as a valid form of argument.

Correct about what? Would you say Chalice for 1 on Turn 2 is better than Chalice for zero on Turn 1?

Since I did say Turn 1 Chalice for 1 is a debatable argument.

Depends whos on the play and draw.

[Kronicler]

Yes, I am talking about meathooks and you are completely wrong. Meathooks vs Gobos is nowhere near a coin flip. This is another matchup I have tested extensively, to the point that the 4 goblin players in my shop won't even play against slivers anymore, and I go roughly 70-30. I play against good goblin players who don't make mistakes and who play the optimum builds. Crystalline is amazing in this matchup, there is no disputing that, but it's not like without it I automatically lose. At a certain point gobos just cannot deal with the shear size of the slivers, and eventually you can usually drop a winged and swing ftw.

Kronicler

[Awesomator]

You also have a fragile mana base which has to be able to deal with 4 ports and 4 wastes. I always seem to run into meathooks in random tournaments and I haven't lost a game to it, it's been very close in testing, somewhere around a flip. Maybe I'm just lucky lol, maybe the gob players you're playing with are making some mistakes, or maybe I'm just not playing against any good Meathooks players.

[BoTS]

At Magic-League,

In a May 26 Trial tournament, "WUG Slivers" took second.
In an Apr 02 Trial Tournament, there's a CounterSliver deck in the top 4, and one took 1st. Beyond that, I don't see any other lists. The three mentioned are pretty much identical to the one you and your team worked on, barring any minor tweaks.

Edit: Got beaten to it. Curse my schizo wireless connection.

That's true, CounterSlivers is quite solid. But do you know what it lost to? Ichorid. Yeah, I'm surprised no one has even so much as mentioned the deck as extremely underplayed and also extremely powerful. Yes, it has a hard time with Crypt, which I'm sure is its biggest argument for not running it, but I've seen it punch through such unlikely odds as double Crypt. It also has needles and Chalice to deal with it. The thing about the deck that makes it so strong is its consistency. It can easily win by turn 4 on a regular basis, even in the face of hate or removal.

[Watcher487]

You also have a fragile mana base which has to be able to deal with 4 ports and 4 wastes.

[IRONY] Gobbos does an awesome job destroying a fragile mana base against D3Deuce. [/IRONY]

Goblins is not the end all of the format. Get over yourselves and start thinking.

[Awesomator]

Ya and you wouldn't have won had I knew you even ran black.. Or if I even had a waste or port in any of those games. We were talking about a particular matchup, notice how noone ever talks about their matchup against your deck, because no one cares. 4 colors with Silver Knight and Kird Ape! Awesome!

[Kronicler]

You also have a fragile mana base which has to be able to deal with 4 ports and 4 wastes.

The manabase isn't that fragile. All you have to do is fetch basics and hope they don't get more than 2 ports (because that just sucks balls).

Maybe I'm just lucky lol, maybe the gob players you're playing with are making some mistakes, or maybe I'm just not playing against any good Meathooks players.

I'm guessing that you just aren't playing against great Meathooks players, because the gobos player I test against is currently #1 in the city champs in the Bay Area, aka he is quite a good player.

Kronicler

[Volt]

(has slivers even done anything at a west coast tournament?)

Umm, what is this "west coast tournament" you speak of? I do not think there is such a thing. At least not in Legacy.

[Awesomator]

has anyone tested Affownity? Bane did well in a tourney with it. I don't really like the whole 15 blue card with 4 Force thing, but Force is definitely necessary to make the deck competitive.

[Citrus-God]

In my opinion slivers is a superior deck to thresh because a) it beats gobos b) it is very hard to hate out, unlike thresh c) it beats goblins d) having all of your creatures untargetable is better than only 4 of them e) it beats goblins and f) because it is more fun to play than thresh (imo). Did I mension it beats goblins?

Kronicler

I would like to defned Threshold. In no way is Slivers supperior to Threshold. Threshold holds a better Solidarity MU game 1, even with no Meddling Mage backed up it still holds a stronger Control density. I'm not saying Threshold is better, but I'm saying that isnt completely true as Threshold's win conditions are more independent and are much harder to answer individually.

A.) Threshold goes 50/50 against Goblins. It really depends on the patience of that Threshold player that makes him/her beat Goblins. Only bad or out of practice Thrshold players lose to Goblins.

B.) It depends who you play against. Tormod's Crypt does not spell the end for Threshold. Usually what spells the end for Threshold is Chalice of the Void. This applies to you too.

C.) I admit, this is a very strong reason to run MeatHooks, however it needs others to tie the deck together. A Deed/EE for 2 can wipe the whole board clean. For Threshold, a Deed/EE is a bit complex to use right as it as Enforcer as well. I think of Enforcer as the trap this deck has where you just wear your opponent's out and them BAM! Their staring done a board of Enforcer and a random beefed up Dude...

D.) I cant argue which is more fun to play. That's more of a preference for the pilot...

[BoTS]

has anyone tested Affownity? Bane did well in a tourney with it. I don't really like the whole 15 blue card with 4 Force thing, but Force is definitely necessary to make the deck competitive.

I disagree. Yes, I do believe the deck is just as competetive as a lot of the other decks mentioned in this thread, but It does not need Force to make it a force to reckon with (no pun intended). I think the strongest build is the UBR Fling-Atog build, simply because it gives you the stupid "oops I win draw". It also gives you outs in matchups and situations in which you shouldn't at all win lest you run that pesky, red Stronghold instant. The deck itself, besides the OopsIWin factor, is also incredibly consistent, fast, and resilient to hate. After all, it did so well in both Standard and Extended, even with most of the field gunning for its head.

[Soto]

I just talked to a few friends that are going. (I'm talking bout the gpt here in montreal if anyone is coming then pm so we can test.) 2 of em are gonna bring goblins to it so i guess I'm gonna go with slivers. I'm also gonna try and write a report if I do well otherwise meh. thank you all for your advice.