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Thread: [Deck] TES - The EPIC Storm

  1. #41
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    Re: [DTW] TES - The EPIC Storm

    How many lands do you prefer?

    11 with Tomb of Urami and Cabal Pit.
    I think that at the next tournament where I preview many Threshold I switch +1 pit -1 urami.

    How many storm spells, which ones?
    3: 2 ToA & 1 EtW.

    Which protection spells, and how many of each?
    4 xantid swarm, but now I'm testing others protection cards different from duress/therapy.

    Which acceleration, Rite of Flame or Simian Spirit Guide?
    Rite of flame. Sure.

    What's your "Wish board"?

    At last tournament:
    3 EtW
    1 ToA
    1 Diminishing Returns
    1 Iggy Pop
    1 Shattering Spree
    1 Tranquility (next tournament simplify)
    1 Cabal Therapy
    1 Earthquake

    Sideboard cards outside your "Wishboard"?

    3 dark Confidant
    2 Orim's Chant

    Do you aggresively Mulligan?
    Depends...if I play against fast combo decks like belcher or against fast control like counterbalance decks I mulligan aggresively. Instead against slow decks I can to keep a weak hand.

    Diminishing Returns, Why or why not?
    Sure. It gives me the possibility to combo with not many mana in pool or for to go around a stifle/orim when I can't wish -> therapy.

    2x Chrome Mox, Burning Wish, Empty the Warrens, Rite of Flame, Plunge into Darkness, and Infernal Tutor.
    I keep sure against not blue decks. I need only one of my acceleration (11 lands + 4 ritual + 3 rite + 4 LED + 4 cabal +4 petal +2 chrome = 32 cards of 52) to produce some gobbos. With a LED I can think also to start with a diminishing returns. Instead if my opponent plays a deck based on blue I think I can keep, but I'm not so sure; depends also if he play stifle.

    City of Brass, Gemstone Mine, Tomb of Urami, Dark Ritual, Diminishing Returns, Rite of Flame, and Chrome Mox.
    I don't like this hand. 3 lands are too many and I can do the diminishing returns in my second turn only if I topdeck red (0 mana open) or black spell (1 black open) or petal.
    I think I can keep this hand only against decks that don't use discard effects and counters. Pratically only against bye

    LED, LED, Burning Wish, Brainstorm, Land, Diminishing Returns, and Cabal Ritual.
    WoW! Keep, Keep, Keep! This deck is risk and I want to play risky!
    I need only a land, petal, chrome or rite to start and if I topdeck a bad cabal ritual I can play also brainstorm to increase the possibility to draw the cards that I need.

    If the opponent goes Island go, do people go land, Chrome Mox to bait Daze on Chrome Mox, or do people go land Xantid Swarm and disregard Daze?
    For my experience in tournament against decks that use daze I go around it to save my xantid. I'm more slow and I have a minor storm count, but If my opponent can counter my xantid he go in card disavantage perhaps discarding Daze on FoW.

    Do people SB out ETW(s) on the draw?
    Usually not.

    Do people ever want to be able to SB in Tendrils to have 3 MD against control?
    I never try this strategy against control. But I think that I prefer to have a 4 more possibility to tutor the ToA at right time. Also against control I can side in 2 additional EtW, so I prefer side in them instead of an additional ToA.
    At now, with orim, more EtW and confidants perhaps I have too many cards against control, but I prefer to keep out shattering spree because stax isn't present in my meta.

    Hand one: Gemstone mine, City of Brass, Undiscovered Paradise, Cabal Ritual, Xantid Swarm and Burning Wish.
    Against decks with blue I keep sure instead of mulligan at 5. Against fast decks like combo or gobbo I think I mulligan.

    Hand two: 2x Xantid Swarm, 2x Dark Ritual, City of Brass, Lotus Petal and Brainstorm.

    Keep. It's a strong hand against blue based decks and against others decks I need a tutor to start with a brainstorm in hand. Sometimes when my opponent doesn't to do many pressure I wait to cast brainstorm so its effect goes more deep in the deck.

    Hand Three: Rite of Flame, Tendrils of Agony, 2x Lotus Petal, Lion's Eye Diamond, Diminishing Returns and Brainstorm.
    Mah, I mulligan. Damn brainstorm can do to me a bad choice.

  2. #42

    Re: [DTW] TES - The EPIC Storm

    Isn't Tomb of Urami superior to Cabal Pit against Threshold? A 5/5 will win the game, where removing a Meddling Mage is still at least a Stone Rain and a Time Walk.

  3. #43
    Bryant Cook
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    Re: [DTW] TES - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by BreathWeapon View Post
    Isn't Tomb of Urami superior to Cabal Pit against Threshold? A 5/5 will win the game, where removing a Meddling Mage is still at least a Stone Rain and a Time Walk.
    I really hate agreeing with this guy but... he's right. If I'd cut anything for Cabal Pit it'd be the second paradise. Cabal Pit was in earlier lists until ETW started unleashing havoc: buring cities, kicking children, stealing Matt Elgin's collection, robbed key bank and everything else. ETW just got round Meddling Mages and other such hate, leaving Cabal Pit unnessesary.

  4. #44

    Re: [DTW] TES - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by wastedlife View Post
    I really hate agreeing with this guy but... he's right. If I'd cut anything for Cabal Pit it'd be the second paradise. Cabal Pit was in earlier lists until ETW started unleashing havoc: buring cities, kicking children, stealing Matt Elgin's collection, robbed key bank and everything else. ETW just got round Meddling Mages and other such hate, leaving Cabal Pit unnessesary.
    Well at least we now know what happened to Elgin's cards. If only we could find who stole Anwar's cards as easily.

    Concerning Tomb of Urami,
    In what situations do you blow it? BreathWeapon mentions its use against Threshold but doesn't STP just own you then?

  5. #45
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    Re: [DTW] TES - The EPIC Storm

    a) Would they even bother to leave in StP game 2 and 3?

    b) Urami seems like more of a threat than -2/-2. Wouldn't you agree?
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  6. #46

    Re: [DTW] TES - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by noobslayer View Post
    a) Would they even bother to leave in StP game 2 and 3?

    b) Urami seems like more of a threat than -2/-2. Wouldn't you agree?
    a) Why would they take out 4 answers to Swarm? and for what?

    b) I didn't mean to suggest that I liked Cabal Pit in that slot, I was just looking for ideas for the optimal use of Tomb.

  7. #47

    Re: [DTW] TES - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Ewokslayer View Post
    Well at least we now know what happened to Elgin's cards. If only we could find who stole Anwar's cards as easily.

    Concerning Tomb of Urami,
    In what situations do you blow it? BreathWeapon mentions its use against Threshold but doesn't STP just own you then?

    It's more or less the deck's only out with Infernal Tutor against Arcane Lab, you play the Lion's Eye Diamond, play the Infernal Tutor and then sacrifice the Lion's Eye Diamond in response to tutor for the Tomb of Urami and cast it. Whenever aggro-control or control has Arcane Lab, Null Rod or Chalice of the Void @ 0 or 1, it's a good time to consider blowing the Tomb of Urami and winning in the air if you can't just Empty the Warrens or Burning Wish for Empty the Warrens and an answer (sometimes that's just too slow tho').

  8. #48
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    Re: [DTW] TES - The EPIC Storm

    So, since we're soon going to be able to run 56 cards, which 4 cards are going to get the axe?

    I imagine some combination of land and maybe Cabal Ritual or Chrome Mox.

    Thoughts?
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  9. #49
    Bryant Cook
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    Re: [DTW] TES - The EPIC Storm

    It has terrible synergy with Dark Confidant with a 3BB casting cost, I simply don't think 7 life draw a card is worth it. Since Dark Confidant is amazing in control match-ups.

  10. #50

    Re: [DTW] TES - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by wastedlife View Post
    It has terrible synergy with Dark Confidant with a 3BB casting cost, I simply don't think 7 life draw a card is worth it. Since Dark Confidant is amazing in control match-ups.
    It has problems with mulliganing, Brainstorm and Plunge into Darkness to, but on the other side of the argument, Dark Confidant isn't relevant until game 2, and this card can be SBed out for Dark Confidant. It increases Threshold and the number of black cards for Chrome Mox, for what that is worth.

    I would consider cutting a Plunge into Darkness, Brainstorm, Chrome Mox, Cabal Ritual and/or a Land for it and see how it works out.

    3/4 with Swamp Walk isn't bad either, I could see times where it would be a useful out.

  11. #51
    Bryant Cook
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    Re: [DTW] TES - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by BreathWeapon View Post
    It has problems with mulliganing, Brainstorm and Plunge into Darkness to, but on the other side of the argument, Dark Confidant isn't relevant until game 2, and this card can be SBed out for Dark Confidant. It increases Threshold and the number of black cards for Chrome Mox, for what that is worth.

    I would consider cutting a Plunge into Darkness, Brainstorm, Chrome Mox, Cabal Ritual and/or a Land for it and see how it works out.

    3/4 with Swamp Walk isn't bad either, I could see times where it would be a useful out.
    If I have 5 mana to waste I might as well be winning the game, no? Also, going below 4 Brainstorm? No. I've already made some MD changes and I simply don't have room for a cycler. If I wanted to play 4 less cards in my deck I would've played baubles.

  12. #52
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    Re: [DTW] TES - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by wastedlife View Post
    If I have 5 mana to waste I might as well be winning the game, no? Also, going below 4 Brainstorm? No. I've already made some MD changes and I simply don't have room for a cycler. If I wanted to play 4 less cards in my deck I would've played baubles.
    Bauble != a free cycler. With the baubles, there's a delay in getting the card, which is bad since it slows you down a turn. You can cycle at any time, though, so the zombie doesn't slow you down.

    Yes, it can potentially make your mulligans and brainstorms a little worse, but running 56 cards is going to increase the consistency over 60. Essentially, it lets us cut our 4 worst cards. I can't see how this could be a bad thing.

    Besides, it's not really about having room. When you build a deck, you can't think about it as starting with a whole lot of cards and then tossing some out. Think about it as starting with an empty list and then adding the best cards.
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  13. #53
    Bryant Cook
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    Re: [DTW] TES - The EPIC Storm

    So then why don't we play 12 "free slots"? I mean every deck should do it then, not just combo.

  14. #54
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    Re: [DTW] TES - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by wastedlife View Post
    So then why don't we play 12 "free slots"? I mean every deck should do it then, not just combo.
    What 12? If you're referring to the Baubles, I already mentioned that the delay in seeing the card is the reason you wouldn't play them.
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  15. #55
    Bryant Cook
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    Re: [DTW] TES - The EPIC Storm

    There's not much of a difference between the two, atleast baubles add storm. Which I'm not even advocating. Causing inconsistancy with opening hands, brainstorms, plunges and Diminishing Returns should be more than enough reasons to play other cards over [pay two life: draw a card].

  16. #56
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    Re: [DTW] TES - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by wastedlife View Post
    There's not much of a difference between the two, atleast baubles add storm. Which I'm not even advocating. Causing inconsistancy with opening hands, brainstorms, plunges and Diminishing Returns should be more than enough reasons to play other cards over [pay two life: draw a card].
    Seeing a card now and seeing a card next turn is vastly different in a deck that wants to use all the cards it has to go off now. (Baubles don't even add storm because you have to play them the turn before you go off, unless you don't care about the card, in which case they could be anything.)

    Also, it in no way causes inconsistency with Diminishing Returns. If you draw a zombie off of a Returns, you just cycle it. Sure, it can make Brainstorms show you fewer cards, but it can also be used to get you more cards off of a Brainstorm immediately, rather than having to wait to draw them.

    I will admit, it's less than optimal when making mulligan decisions, or with Plunge into Darkness, but I feel that it would be a grave mistake not to at least test the card out, since the potential for improving the consistency of the deck by allowing it to run fewer weaker cards could be very potent.
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  17. #57
    Bryant Cook
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    Re: [DTW] TES - The EPIC Storm

    Its bad with returns because what if you get tons of acceleration and wraith(Could've been Brainstorm or Plunge)(We all know these hands happen alot). Draw into nothing, oh look we fizzel. Brainstorm would've dug two cards deeper and Plunge X cards deeper than Wraith. That's why it's worse with Returns.

    I could counter argue that if the Street Wraith was Brainstorm or Plunge that you wouldn't have to wait as long. If the Wraith was Plunge you wouldn't have to wait period.

  18. #58
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    Re: [DTW] TES - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by wastedlife View Post
    Its bad with returns because what if you get tons of acceleration and wraith(Could've been Brainstorm or Plunge)(We all know these hands happen alot). Draw into nothing, oh look we fizzel. Brainstorm would've dug two cards deeper and Plunge X cards deeper than Wraith. That's why it's worse with Returns.

    I could counter argue that if the Street Wraith was Brainstorm or Plunge that you wouldn't have to wait as long. If the Wraith was Plunge you wouldn't have to wait period.
    Yeah, but the Brainstorm or Plunge or even your win condition could have been just on top of your deck, too.

    Wraith just becomes whatever card was on top of your library. You can get hosed by crap hands drawing seven cards just the same as drawing seven cards and then cycling one, except that in the latter example you actually have a better chance of seeing specific cards. You have a better chance of seeing good cards because there are functionally fewer cards that you can draw.

    Saying that Wraith decreases the quality of a Diminishing Returns is just wrong. If anything, it increases it.
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  19. #59
    Bryant Cook
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    Re: [DTW] TES - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by outsideangel View Post
    Yeah, but the Brainstorm or Plunge or even your win condition could have been just on top of your deck, too.

    Wraith just becomes whatever card was on top of your library. You can get hosed by crap hands drawing seven cards just the same as drawing seven cards and then cycling one, except that in the latter example you actually have a better chance of seeing specific cards. You have a better chance of seeing good cards because there are functionally fewer cards that you can draw.

    Saying that Wraith decreases the quality of a Diminishing Returns is just wrong. If anything, it increases it.
    I'm supposed to rely on the top card of my library? Why don't people keep no land hands with landstill? I mean, it may be on the top, right? Compared to Chrome Mox yes, the Wraith increases chances, not to Brainstorm or Plunge into Darkness. You have a better chance of success with Brainstorm and Plunge than a cycle card.

  20. #60
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    Re: [DTW] TES - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by wastedlife View Post
    I'm supposed to rely on the top card of my library? Why don't people keep no land hands with landstill? I mean, it may be on the top, right?
    Last time I checked, you can't mulligan the hand you draw off a Returns.

    Yes, Wraith makes your mulliganing decisions harder. Not because it shows you less than seven actually cards, but because you have no information about what the card it will turn it to will be.

    But this absolutely does not apply to Diminishing Returns, because you always keep the new hand. You don't have to make a decision based on guessing what the top card is, because there is no decision, and you are going to see the top card.
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