If you want to hide behind a single Enchantment I would play Sphere of Law.
Goblins can kill all your creatures with Incinerator and it is much better to be on more than one life when they draw their Disenchant.
I don't see how getting BB would be luck, considering there are 12 lands to get a swamp + Sakura-Tribe Elder. Although Hymn is a little worse in the Tendrils match than both Duress (speed) and Mesmeric Fiend (colored mana, tutorable, RFG card), it is much better against Solidarity and early game versus Control. I see Hymn as a cogent slot in the sideboard, as it fills multiple roles and allows you to dedicate more of your sideboard to other relevant match-ups.Originally Posted by Diablos
4 Hymn
2 Glowrider
3 Duress/Fiend
3 Engineered Plague
1 Rule of Law
1 Seal of Primordium
1 Loaming Shaman
I don't really see why Krosan Grip is such an essential slot: It adds even more cards in the deck that you don't have tutor-access to, and doesn't really address many pertinent problems, other than being able to get through to Pithing Needle against Threshold. If that's the case, Thresh will be gaining the same card and be able to find it through cantrips faster than Top will, meaning your Deeds/Survival will be toast anyhow.
Chalice of the Void @1 would be much stronger against them. Even though it can nullify a few of your own slot, it shutting down half their deck overshadows any problems. In addition to that, it is extremely good against any Tendrils deck set to 0, which wouldn't even effect you and can follow into a first turn Chalice + Therapy/Duress.
GBW Survival looks really strong to me (success showing it), and I hope it continues in a good path of development.
I feel like you would miss it alot, it's synergy with survivals shuffle effects was insane. In fairness though alot of its power was the ability to put unneeded creatures back into the deck and grabbing any non-creature spells off the top of the library then shuffling back in the unneeded creatures. With Worship, 2x Tutor and 4 Survival being the only non-creature spells, I could see it being weakened a great deal. In you're build it wouldnt be able to hide FOWs on the top of the library vs discard, or dig for FOW/Stifle/Mana leak from pervious builds.
Only other thing that seems risky/bad is the huge amount of mana guys in the deck. 4 BoP, 4 Wall of Roots, 4 Rofellos, 1 Elf, 1 Ranger..... 14 of your 40 nonland cards are mana... thats 34 mana sources, seems like overkill... it also seems like you will draw into alot of hands that without Survival will lack threats, and that your top decks without Survival to pitch mana dudes to will be very rough.
The posted Grwu list has zero game vs. any non-Solidarity combo deck, and little against Solidarity, too. Basically, without black, you need something else to battle the speed of those decks, and it seems you've ignored them instead.
Is that a typo?? Why would you you play 4?? That's 3 wasted slots. If want more then 1 play 2 at the most, which is bad. I would cut 3 Rofelloes for something like Werebear. It gives you mana early and becomes a 4/4 late. Yes Rofelloes is a removal magnet, but 4 is just overkill.[4] Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary [GG]
Quote Scrumdogg @ Amrod's:
"Didn't you know that Mike Glow invented this format?? We are all just renting it."
The EPIC Syndicate - Grindermen
Team Disquailified Poster Duey Cheatem & Howe.
No that isn't a typo. Mike Glow has run 4 Rofellos in his deck for years. Why that is is beyond me seeing how they are dead draws after the first and provide no real threat outside of Survival, but oh well.
Anyway, this thread's discussion has died down. Wtf people? I put those questions in the beginning of the thread to get it going and it hasn't really been talked about. So get to it!
Well it's not that bad. Having 6 mana on turn 3 is crazy.
Having the six mana is nice, but having 3 other dead cards is kind of terrible. And without survival he just powers out... baloths. I like playing two - enough that you'll hit it quick, and so you won't lose if he's STP'd, and can pull him back with whitnesses.
The E.P.I.C. Syndicate: I mean, if they play a lullaby for babies they should at least play the Monster Mash when somebody dies.
I really couldn't justify running more than two. More than that and you're running into dead draws when they could be threats. Recently I did have two in the deck before going back down to one, but two is probably acceptable if you can support it. Considering it is the deck's largest target, Rofellos is prone to survive only for a turn or two after you cast him because he makes the deck go insane, so running the 2nd to tutor for after the first one dies is acceptable. However, he's only insane when he has things to back him up. Outside or Survival or Masticore, he's just another piece of accel. The deck curves out at the 4cc spot, so once you hit that you really don't need to be using him as often because all your threats can be played.
Generally he's really only an issue if you need to be churning out a lot of mana fast. Of course, that's the gameplan during every game, but if you're losing a game because Rofellos was killed then you're playing the deck incorrectly. He's the absolute nuts when he's online, but by far not important enough to warrant too many slots to. Instead, those should be focused on more threats/bombs to make the deck not suck without a Survival on the board.
After tinkering around, I arrived at this configuration:
4 Duress
4 Engineered Plague
1 Rule of Law
1 Glowrider
1 Kataki/Loaming Shaman/Boneshredder/Mesmeric Fiend/Harmonic Sliver (metagame slot)
4 Extirpate
My previously posted board was pretty good against combo, but had the problem of not being able to beat Loam-based decks. Extirpate takes care of Loam shenanigans and is also nice against odd stuff like Ichorid or Reanimator. It also stops Crucible Wasteland shenanigans.
In combination with 4 Duress and 4 Therapy, Extirpate is also able to disrupt most combo decks pretty heavily. Extirpate is better used in Survival than in Deadguy variants imo.
A full playset of Extirpate seems terrible considering its poor uses against combo aside from Iggy Pop, but then again the Loam decks are much more popular in Europe. I don't know how you think it really hurts the combo decks that much. It's good against Iggy Pop, but Solidarity could care less (see Cunning Wish) and TES runs so many different cards that it most likely wouldn't even matter (also, see Burning Wish)
Even so, I think there would always a be a better slot for the sideboard because Loam decks can easily be handeled with graveyard hate. Hell, just run Jotun Grunt and they pretty much cry, and it gives you an effective clock. That would also free up slots for your combo matchup, which you constantly underestimate believing a mere 4 Duress and Therapy with Witness backup is enough to win provided you have almost no clock.
Would anyone here hesitate to throw the upcoming creature that cycles for 2 life into a Survival build?
Yes. He is probably at his very WORST in Survival. A deck with a lot of tutoring power values its slots MORE than your average deck, and simply cannot afford to waste the card slots on that guy.
I am interested in the black creature that sacs in upkeep to Wrench Mind. He is just fast enough to be of use against some combo.
I don't like running 4 ever. 4 is Ridiculous.
But I have frequently run more than one. Generally in BGW I ran three (Sometimes two), which reduces the chances of me drawing a hand full of them. One of my favorite plays was turn two Rofellos, turn 3 Silvos.
The concept behind multiple Rofellos is simple. If they don't kill it, you can go completely nuts. If they -do-, you have a backup. Also, it's worth bearing in mind, with a red splash running Anger you can get at least one Rofellos activation before they can do -anything-, whereas it's a lot more difficult to keep a Rofellos around long enough to use him in BGW.
I've got some ideas. First, readthis over. I really like the whole 4 Glowrider MD'd. Although, unless I've been drinking, it apprears that he has 14 lands. That might be a mistake. Maybe he's forgotten to write down the foothills. Hmm...
I think that alot of the the combo decks out there today can play around chalices, even in multiples, but sphere of resistance's and glowriders are really difficult to beat. No joke, shit's awful tough. I've been playing alot of TES recently, and (as half of my team only plays survival) I've been finding glowriders fucking irritating. Furthermore, I think there's even more hope for survival: Magus of the moon.
He makes control matchups crazy. For serious man. Think about how landstill will deal with this guy. Or even tes, I guess. They'd have to go mono-tokens, or run off of LED's and petals and moxen. So I guess it's not that much of a bomb against them. But it's still good. And make solidarity's fetches just mountains. Maybe I'm over hyping-him a bit. But he's really good.
I've been thinking about working on a GRw list to use. That new aven guy would make playing TES or IGGY pop pretty cool. But we'd have to play a bunch of basics to make the blood moon dude playable. Imagine if they'd made magus of the chains.... woo hoo! Sucks that the abyss was the pick instead. I'll just have to think about what may have been.
The E.P.I.C. Syndicate: I mean, if they play a lullaby for babies they should at least play the Monster Mash when somebody dies.
I only count 55 cards in the deck, so I assume the last ones would be lands. That would make the land count seem a bit more reasonable at 19 over 14.I've got some ideas. First, readthis over. I really like the whole 4 Glowrider MD'd. Although, unless I've been drinking, it apprears that he has 14 lands. That might be a mistake. Maybe he's forgotten to write down the foothills. Hmm...
I agree that Glowrider is most likely the best anti-combo weapon there is for Survival decks. It is difficult for combo decks to work around it because it hinders them from actually playing the spells, and it provides a clock. Of course, that is all in addition to the fact that you can string them together with Survival.
Magus of the Moon is also retarded. So retarded, that I'm even debating finding room for him in EATS despite a 4color manabase. He's that good. Although he's much more suited for either an RGBSA or RGWSA list, it's worth trying out in basically every single Survival deck.
The new Aven guy just seems weak. Outside of the Survival mirror, I can barely recall a matchup I'd care to see it. Nuking fetchlands is a maybe considering the opponent has a good chance of seeing a land in the top cards of the deck, and outside of combos' tutors, it's useless. As a hate card for combo it's incredibly weak, basically just saying you can't use Infernal Tutor. That doesn't cut it for a hate slot.
He sucks for most things, he'd prolly be a 1-of in the side. Not worth running main decked.
Also, on a actually playable for the GP thing, I've been looking into running more than one squee. Is that just plain uncouth? I've been looking into MD-ing the masques "tap, ditch a card from hand: blow up an enchantment or artifact". Not enough reason to run two? I just find that I run out of gas alot, and wish I could tutor up the best two answers someof the itme.
The E.P.I.C. Syndicate: I mean, if they play a lullaby for babies they should at least play the Monster Mash when somebody dies.
Running multiple Squee isn't unheard of, but is always a bad call. Generally if you have a single Squee with Survival, you're already in good shape. Getting multiples is really just unnecessary. Plus, it is completely a dead draw outside of the Survival engine. Adding an additional shitty card to draw when you're trying to win without Survival is bad. Of course, you could make the argument of them removing one so you can use another, but considering how many creatures the deck runs, that shouldn't be much of a problem. Basically if you expect to see graveyard hate just bait the Squee and if they bite then you get Anger and Genesis afterwards.Also, on a actually playable for the GP thing, I've been looking into running more than one squee. Is that just plain uncouth? I've been looking into MD-ing the masques "tap, ditch a card from hand: blow up an enchantment or artifact". Not enough reason to run two? I just find that I run out of gas alot, and wish I could tutor up the best two answers someof the itme.
As for Devout Witness (your Masques guy), his issue is simple: needs haste. Coming into play then waiting a turn isn't going to do much against an opponent's Survival, Jitte, Deed, whatever. If you want enchantment hate maindeck, then the only viable options are Kami of the Ancient Law and Indrik Stomphowler. Kami is ok I suppose, and Stomphowler is ridiculously expensive. However that's up to you.
@lonelybaritone:If your looking for more Squee effects, look at Basking Rootwalla. I know not everyone is a fan of it, but putting a dude into play and finding something with Survival is good. Not to mention he is pretty good went hard cast to.
@Devout Witness:The mana issue can come up too. Vandals all the way!
Quote Scrumdogg @ Amrod's:
"Didn't you know that Mike Glow invented this format?? We are all just renting it."
The EPIC Syndicate - Grindermen
Team Disquailified Poster Duey Cheatem & Howe.
The basic reason you don't want 2 Squee is because they are the worst card in the deck without Survival.
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