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Thread: [Deck] Countersliver (MeatHooks)

  1. #21
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    Re: [Deck] MeatHooks (Legacy CounterSliver)

    Quote Originally Posted by kicks_422 View Post
    EDIT: I decided to drop Stifles entirely from the deck, since the match-ups that we need it are already good ones, and for those where we really need it, Pithing Needle does the job better. What are everyone's thoughts on this?
    Then you would have my build. -2 Stifle +1 CS +1 fetch. I think Volt was messing around with Needle but I can remember his results. The 2 Stifles are decent in a meta that warrants them; if you expect heavy Gobs and Combo then the Stifles are pretty keen.
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  2. #22
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    Re: [Deck] MeatHooks (Legacy CounterSliver)

    .
    Last edited by Volt; 10-11-2008 at 11:44 PM.
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  3. #23

    Re: [Deck] MeatHooks (Legacy CounterSliver)

    if i had needles I would probably run them over the stifles, but for now stifling a fetch turn 1/2 is godlike, haha.

  4. #24
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    Re: [Deck] MeatHooks (Legacy CounterSliver)

    I just think that even without Stifles, we can already beat combo. In all my games against combo, after sideboarding, I've never had to use Stifle ever. It was just always sitting in my hand staring at the Mages in play or was just fodder for FoW... And the Goblins match-up is ridiculously good even without Stifles.

    I've found out how much Pithing Needles are needed after going against BGR Rock, Affinity, and Survival in successive games. Against BGR Rock, I boarded in Mage (for Deed to protect my creatures, Pyroclasm and FTK to protect the Mage) and Stifles for the Deed, where a single Needle would have given me the game. Against Affinity, I boarded in Mages and Harmonics, but it would have been better if I boarded in Needles instead of the Mages. Against Survival, you know how that would work.

    I've found stifling fetchlands a weak play. There are times when they keep a one land hand and hope to Brainstorm into another one, where a Stifle on their fetchland is GG... But without a way to support the land denial, it's just a waste.
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  5. #25
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    Re: [Deck] MeatHooks (Legacy CounterSliver)

    Yeah, it seems we've all pretty come to the concensus that Stifles are no longer needed in the maindeck. They were good when they wre needed, but post-PC, they aren't really necessary anymore (it's just sad that we didn't get anything good out of FS ) I could definitely see CS #3, and I suppose you could go for the 19th land as well. I think the deck runs fine on 18, but you could go either way. If you don't bump up the land count, you could always go for Porten #4 as well.

    Also, I did a tad bit of testing with -2 Stifle, -2 CS, -3 Portent, +4 Counterbalance, +3 SDT to see how that would work (hey, it worked for Thresh, right?), and overall I found that it was just a bit too random for my tastes. Without Counterbalance and Top in play, it just wasn't an effective way to consistently counter spells, because we don't have that many cantrips. And our curve is really low, so we can't really counter much that isn't in the 1-2 range. With the CB/Top setup above, we have 15 1cc and 23 2cc, and 4 5cc and that's about it. This isn't neccesarily a bad thing, as there are a lot of 2 drops you'd want to counter, but it's there.

    SDT all by itself wasn't that bad though. Of course, it gives Thresh's maindeck Needles a target.

    Has anyone else done any testing with the Counterbalance/Top engine? What were your results?

    edit:

    Quote Originally Posted by Volt
    we could probably run Didgeridoos in those slots and still beat Goblins 2 out of 3.
    What do you mean still? I hadn't considered Didgeridoos for the MD, but if there was some way to combine the savage syngery of Slivers with Minotaur Advantage...maybe a list with Hivestone and some Minotaurs + Didgeridoo? Holy shit, I think we've stumbled onto something. Imagine an Anaba Grunt Sliver....that's it, I'm drumming up a list tonight.
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  6. #26
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    Re: [Deck] MeatHooks (Legacy CounterSliver)

    .
    Last edited by Volt; 10-11-2008 at 11:44 PM.
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  7. #27
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    Re: [Deck] MeatHooks (Legacy CounterSliver)

    Quote Originally Posted by zetrix View Post
    if i had needles I would probably run them over the stifles, but for now stifling a fetch turn 1/2 is godlike, haha.
    More often than not its the winning play against Solidarity.

    Again, those 2 slots are definately the weakest in the deck and can pretty much be anything you want them to be. Needles, Stifles, 19th land, Portent #4, Winged #4, another sliver (Hanni splashes Black for 2x Hibernation Sliver), EE. Theres tons of stuff that fit in those slots.
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  8. #28

    Re: [Deck] MeatHooks (Legacy CounterSliver)

    What's the reason that decklist doesn't run 4x Windswept Heath and at least one Savannah and forest? The color mana commitments are almost the same, (although draw does fall under blue), but I think 4x Heath plus the Savannah and forest would give you more consistent mana and more protection from Wasteland.

  9. #29
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    Re: [Deck] MeatHooks (Legacy CounterSliver)

    Quote Originally Posted by coolmagics View Post
    What's the reason that decklist doesn't run 4x Windswept Heath and at least one Savannah and forest? The color mana commitments are almost the same, (although draw does fall under blue), but I think 4x Heath plus the Savannah and forest would give you more consistent mana and more protection from Wasteland.
    If you're fetching basics, you want to ensure that you can fetch an Island. Any of the fetchlands in the deck can fetch any of the dual lands, but as blue is the deck's main color, you want to make sure that a majority of your fetchlands can fetch basic Islands, followed by basic Plains (hence, 6 fetches that can fetch Islands, 5 that can fetch Plains). The Windswept Heath was a holdover from when we needed to be able to fecth the basic Forest we used to run, but it could easily be the 3rd Delta.
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    Re: [Deck] MeatHooks (Legacy CounterSliver)

    .
    Last edited by Volt; 10-11-2008 at 11:44 PM.
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  11. #31

    Re: [Deck] MeatHooks (Legacy CounterSliver)

    Do you think that it is a problem that when you draw several Winged Slivers or Cryistalline Slivers they are essentially dead cards ? How about adding more Slivers that don't have this problem like Ward Sliver or Essence Sliver ?
    Or some more one-ofs like Quick Sliver or Root Sliver ?

  12. #32
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    Re: [Deck] MeatHooks (Legacy CounterSliver)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zuriya View Post
    Do you think that it is a problem that when you draw several Winged Slivers or Cryistalline Slivers they are essentially dead cards ? How about adding more Slivers that don't have this problem like Ward Sliver or Essence Sliver ?
    Or some more one-ofs like Quick Sliver or Root Sliver ?
    The thing is, they are not dead. With 1 muscle/sinew out, Crystalline sliver becomes a 3/3 for , which isn't bad at all. Winged Sliver, while less impressive P/T-wise, still gives you extra beats, and since it is only a 3-of, it is less likely that you will see multiples. Plus, they're both blue, so they can be pitched to FoW.
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  13. #33
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    Re: [Deck] MeatHooks (Legacy CounterSliver)

    Plus, Crystalline Sliver gives all your guys Shroud.

    Seriously, Wizards needs some better keywords.
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  14. #34
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    Re: [Deck] MeatHooks (Legacy CounterSliver)

    For some reason, I find annoying that untargetability got a keyword, while the Troll Ascetic ability didn't.
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  15. #35
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    Re: [Deck] MeatHooks (Legacy CounterSliver)

    Quote Originally Posted by Nihil View Post
    For some reason, I find annoying that untargetability got a keyword, while the Troll Ascetic ability didn't.
    I just find it annoying that it gots uch a lame keyword. Couldn't they have just made it like indestructable and template it like 'X is untargetable?' I don't see why they have use a dumb word.
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  16. #36

    Re: [Deck] MeatHooks (Legacy CounterSliver)

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinder View Post
    Also, I did a tad bit of testing with -2 Stifle, -2 CS, -3 Portent, +4 Counterbalance, +3 SDT to see how that would work (hey, it worked for Thresh, right?), and overall I found that it was just a bit too random for my tastes. Without Counterbalance and Top in play, it just wasn't an effective way to consistently counter spells, because we don't have that many cantrips. And our curve is really low, so we can't really counter much that isn't in the 1-2 range. With the CB/Top setup above, we have 15 1cc and 23 2cc, and 4 5cc and that's about it. This isn't neccesarily a bad thing, as there are a lot of 2 drops you'd want to counter, but it's there.

    SDT all by itself wasn't that bad though. Of course, it gives Thresh's maindeck Needles a target.
    I haven't seen many Threshold decks with both Counterbalance and SDT maindecked. I'd follow their lead, maindeck SDT, SB Counterbalance, and just bring it in vs other decks with similar curves. Even without SDT, Counterbalance will just randomly counters stuff against the right decks. It's strong against combo too, not just Fish mirrors.

  17. #37

    Re: [Deck] MeatHooks (Legacy CounterSliver)

    do you think their reason for not releasing the crystaline sliver FNM was because it is coming up and they wanted to have it with its new text adn frame? and because slivers are big in TSB...

  18. #38

    Re: [Deck] MeatHooks (Legacy CounterSliver)

    No that is not the case, the reason crystalline FNM was never released is because some of them were stolen before their release date. You can read more here http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x...skwizards/0406 (its the April 25 question).

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  19. #39

    Re: [Deck] MeatHooks (Legacy CounterSliver)

    Also because it might mess with the Secondary Market value of those Slivers in the market?

  20. #40

    Re: [Deck] MeatHooks (Legacy CounterSliver)

    Why is worldly tutor not run in this deck. I know it doesn't fit the mostly blue deck, but it gets you any of the slivers you really need.

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