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Thread: [Deck] Countersliver (MeatHooks)

  1. #41
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    Re: [Deck] MeatHooks (Legacy CounterSliver)

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    Last edited by Volt; 10-11-2008 at 11:44 PM.
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  2. #42

    Re: [Deck] MeatHooks (Legacy CounterSliver)

    Are there any new decklists that arent the one on the main page that are currently the "optimal" build I guess you would call it, or is the build on the main page still pretty much the standard.

  3. #43
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    Re: [Deck] MeatHooks (Legacy CounterSliver)

    I guess you could say that the list on the front page is the basic skeleton, but I believe most have tweaked their lists a bit according to their own personal taste or metagame.

    For example, I run a basic Forest and -1 Daze for +1 Counterspell in the MD (personal tastes), and -1 Crypt and -2 Stifle in the SB for 3 Essence Sliver (metagame decision).

    I think Volt has mentioned that he runs a 19th land, I'm not sure if he still does.
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  4. #44
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    Re: [Deck] MeatHooks (Legacy CounterSliver)

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    Last edited by Volt; 10-11-2008 at 11:45 PM.
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  5. #45
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    Re: [Deck] MeatHooks (Legacy CounterSliver)

    Quote Originally Posted by noobagain View Post
    Why is worldly tutor not run in this deck. I know it doesn't fit the mostly blue deck, but it gets you any of the slivers you really need.
    Worldly tutor isnt run because it doesnt replace itself with a card. Also it costs G which makes it a bad first turn play as you have to fetch out a Tropical Island instead of a basic one. Predict also kinda sucks for you.

    If you are looking for a tutor for this deck the best one is Eledamri's Call because it represents card parity and you dont have switch up the deck list like you do with Living Wish.

    Quote Originally Posted by zetrix View Post
    Are there any new decklists that arent the one on the main page that are currently the "optimal" build I guess you would call it, or is the build on the main page still pretty much the standard.
    The list is not set in stone but there are a lot of slots which are pretty much nailed down. You should be running :

    At least 18 lands (I prefer 19, Kicks)
    The 19 Slivers (if you hate Plated you can run 18; -1 Plated)
    4 FoW
    4 StP
    4 BS
    3+ Daze
    and 2+ Counterspell

    The rest is personal taste and/or meta calls.
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  6. #46

    Re: [Deck] MeatHooks (Legacy CounterSliver)

    actually, if you just want a tutor for slivers, I think Homing Sliver would be the way to go. It's instant speed and uncounterable and colorless. You couldn't ever play him, but if he's just there as a tutor, I don't see a problem.

  7. #47

    Re: [Deck] MeatHooks (Legacy CounterSliver)

    His ability is much too expensive. Plus he is way too narrow, cantrips are a much better option. We tried tutors like eladmri's call and living wish in this deck and found that cantrips perform much better because they find both slivers and counterspells/land.

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  8. #48
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    Re: [Deck] MeatHooks (Legacy CounterSliver)

    Quote Originally Posted by xsockmonkeyx View Post
    The list is not set in stone but there are a lot of slots which are pretty much nailed down. You should be running :

    At least 18 lands (I prefer 19, Kicks)
    The 19 Slivers (if you hate Plated you can run 18; -1 Plated)
    4 FoW
    4 StP
    4 BS
    3+ Daze
    and 2+ Counterspell

    The rest is personal taste and/or meta calls.
    Um, I'm pretty sure that around 3+ Serum Visions/Portent need to be on that list. This deck can't operate with only 4 cantrips.

    As far as I'm concerned, the only really malleable slots are the two currently occupied by Stifle, although some tweaking could be done to the manabase/counterspell/daze count to suit your tastes.
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  9. #49
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    Re: [Deck] MeatHooks (Legacy CounterSliver)

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinder View Post
    Um, I'm pretty sure that around 3+ Serum Visions/Portent need to be on that list. This deck can't operate with only 4 cantrips.
    True. But every time we try to run a draw engine or stuff like counterbalance + top those are the first things to go. They are still up for debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinder View Post
    As far as I'm concerned, the only really malleable slots are the two currently occupied by Stifle, although some tweaking could be done to the manabase/counterspell/daze count to suit your tastes.
    Yes but the neat thing is those 2 cards can be pretty much anything. There are a number of cards that fit into those slots perfectly fine. Needle, Talon Sliver, SDT, Stifle, Counterspell #3-4, cantrip #8-9, Harmonic Sliver, Meddling Mage, Lands, counterbalance, Eledamri's Call, Spell Snare, etc. You can also consider adding a black splash and play 2 Hibernation like Hanni's deck.
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    Re: [Deck] MeatHooks (Legacy CounterSliver)

    Well, considering the stuff that you've mentioned that replace cantrips provide draw as well, I think the 7-8 slots should be loosely considered as draw spells, be it cantrips or SDT's.

    I really can't make counterbalance work in this deck, mostly because the curve is so focused on 1 and 2, and the decks that are pawned by a Counterbalance on 1 or 2 are generally good match-ups already anyway.
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  11. #51
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    Re: [Deck] MeatHooks (Legacy CounterSliver)

    Quote Originally Posted by kicks_422 View Post
    Well, considering the stuff that you've mentioned that replace cantrips provide draw as well, I think the 7-8 slots should be loosely considered as draw spells, be it cantrips or SDT's.

    I really can't make counterbalance work in this deck, mostly because the curve is so focused on 1 and 2, and the decks that are pawned by a Counterbalance on 1 or 2 are generally good match-ups already anyway.
    This is true, but I sort of like SDT in those slots as well. Once you have one down, it's rather nice to be able to rearrange the top 3 whenever you feel like. Especially if you have some fetches or other shuffle effects (like Portent).

    I've also thrown Talon back in as a 2 of maindeck to test. It pushes our Goblins matchup into near autowin status, and isn't too shabby when going up against Thresh's fat early either. I almost want it as a 3 of so I can see it more reliably.

    With either SDT or Talon in those 2 slots though, it always seemed like I wanted more.
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  12. #52

    Re: [Deck] MeatHooks (Legacy CounterSliver)

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinder View Post
    I've also thrown Talon back in as a 2 of maindeck to test. It pushes our Goblins matchup into near autowin status, and isn't too shabby when going up against Thresh's fat early either. I almost want it as a 3 of so I can see it more reliably.
    QFT, but I personally think that Winged is better if I had to choose one or the other to have three of in the main. Winged can flat-out win, whereas Talon Sliver just wins at combat. I'd definitely try to include the third Talon in the sideboard, though, since blocking matters more against Goblins.

  13. #53

    Re: [Deck] MeatHooks (Legacy CounterSliver)

    can someone tell me how I should be playing against the "rock" matchup, I seem to get stomped by it a lot... and I mean a lot... even after sideboard and stuff..

    I use the normal list on the main page (with 2x stifle MD)

  14. #54
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    Re: [Deck] MeatHooks (Legacy CounterSliver)

    Umm....pray? The Rock, Truffle Shuffle, etc aren't exactly great matchups for us. If they're using Deed (which they should be), use Stifle against it game 1 and board in Needles for it in game 2. They're targeted removal is next to nil once you get Crystalline, but you have to make sure that you keep Damnation, WoG, and other board sweep from resolving as much as possible. Of course, this isn't always possible, so try not to overextend. Play only as many creatures as you need to push through damage and block effectively. Sometimes you have to overextend, though, and there's no way around it. Either way, it's a hard fought match.
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  15. #55
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    Re: [Deck] MeatHooks (Legacy CounterSliver)

    Stifle should be an mvp, along with swords in the rock MU.
    Wouldn't it be possible to bum rush them then hold stifle and swords for later on in the game when their threats come online?
    I dunno, I havent studied the rock MU.

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    Re: [Deck] MeatHooks (Legacy CounterSliver)

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    Last edited by Volt; 10-11-2008 at 11:45 PM.
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    Re: [Deck] MeatHooks (Legacy CounterSliver)

    With 4 Mages and 3 Needles coming in after SB, it becomes easier. Still tough, but manageable.

    I take out a combination of Daze, Plated, and StP for them. Mage naming removal/sweepers, Needle on Deed. The only threat that regular Rock runs that's a real problem is Troll Ascetic, so taking out 1 or 2 StP's should be alright.
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    Re: [Deck] MeatHooks (Legacy CounterSliver)

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    Last edited by Volt; 10-11-2008 at 11:45 PM.
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  19. #59
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    Re: [Deck] MeatHooks (Legacy CounterSliver)

    I've been playing against nothing but Hulk Flash on MWS with MeatHooks, and I don't think such a drastic change such as that should be made for it.

    At the GP, with FS not yet legal and only 4 FoW on their part for protection, MeatHooks will trump Hulk Flash any day.
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    Re: [Deck] MeatHooks (Legacy CounterSliver)

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    Last edited by Volt; 10-11-2008 at 11:45 PM.
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