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Thread: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

  1. #1
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    [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    (This post is a collaborative effort between myself and Tacosnape)

    "Dragon Stompy"

    I. History and Overview

    Dragon Stompy was one of the many Mono Colored Aggro lists born out of Faerie Stompy's success as developed by the godfather (some call him Eldariel). These decks generally use a manabase of City of Traitors, Ancient Tomb, and Chrome Mox to power out Chalice of the Void, large creatures, and equipment to go with them. Tacosnape and I began working on versions of these decks in every color, began talking and found the red list the most promising.

    Dragon Stompy was originally a deck that used sweepers and disruption to compete with tier one decks like Goblins, Thresh, and Solidarity. With the shift toward more Control, Aggro Control, and fast combo, Dragon Stompy dropped the sweepers, or at least moved them to the sideboard, and added some blood moon effects to take advantage of the weak manabases sprouting up as a result of Goblins decline.


    II. Lists
    Here's a list that Parcher just placed with:
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City Of Traitors
    10 Snow-Covered Mountain

    4 Arc-Slogger
    4 Magus of the Moon
    4 Simian Spirit Guide
    3 Gathan Raiders
    3 Sulfur Elemental
    2 Rakdos Pit-Dragon

    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Chalice of the Void
    3 Trinisphere
    3 Sword of Fire and Ice
    2 Umezawa's Jitte

    4 Seething Song

    2 Demonfire

    Sideboard

    4 Pyrokenisis
    3 Tormod's Crypt
    3 Blood Moon
    2 Icefall
    1 Trinisphere
    1 Sulfur Elemental
    1 Rakdos Pit-Dragon

    and check out his report here



    Taco's new list:

    10 Mountain
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Seething Song

    4 Simian Spirit Guide
    4 Magus of the Moon
    4 Gathan Raiders
    4 Rakdos Pit Dragon
    3 Arc-Slogger
    2 Razormane Masticore

    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Umezawa's Jitte
    3 Blood Moon
    2 Trinisphere

    SB:
    4 Tormod's Crypt
    4 Pyroclasm
    4 Pithing Needle
    2 Powder Keg
    1 Trinisphere


    And my personal take:
    10 Mountain
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Seething Song

    4 Simian Spirit Guide
    4 Magus of the Moon
    4 Gathan Raiders
    4 Rakdos Pit Dragon
    2 Sulfur Elemental
    3 Arc-Slogger
    1 Razormane Masticore

    4 Chalice of the Void
    3 Umezawa's Jitte
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice
    2 Blood Moon
    2 Trinisphere

    Sideboard:
    4 Crypt
    3 Needle
    2 Powder Keg
    2 Demonfire
    2 Trinisphere
    2 Blood Moon


    III. Card Choices and Options

    1) The mana base - Pretty standard for this type of deck. Seething Song gives us even more of a boost allowing us to drop 5cc bombs early or activating Pit Dragon or Arc Slogger to obscene extents. Simian Spirit Guide is another booster that fills a ton of rolls including accel, equippable beater, hellbent enabler, and mox pitcher.

    2) Chalice of the Void - The basis of the stompy decks really needs no explanation. Great against most every archetype, the card is rarely boarded out.

    3) Magus of the Moon and Blood Moon - I'll give this one to Taco "7 Blood Moons, however, is format-eating. Seriously. It's as if your deck goes 'DECK HUNGRY! Om nom nom Format.'" There might be a time when so many Blood Moon effects aren't needed, but right now they are gold.

    4) Gathan Raiders and Rakdos Pit Dragon - The best creatures in the deck. They are both very good, and hellbent makes them unfair.

    5) Razorcore and Arc-Slogger - The 5cc beats. Both can be powered out early. Both can be huge swings. Razormane might get cut soon though. The card was at its best in the deck the day we added it, but changes in the deck (going hellbent) and changes in the meta (Goblins on the decline) have hurt its usefulness slightly. One possible replacement is Tephraderm which is being tested.

    6) Sulfur Elemental - Taco and I seem to disagree slightly with the exact usefulness of this guy. We both agree that he is not as good as Raiders or Magus, but I find him to be worth of inclusion while he does not.

    7) Jitte and Sword of Fire and Ice - Taco and I both agree that Jitte is better than sword here, but some of the lists that have places have run up to three swords, so I'll leave it at that.

    8) Trinisphere - That amount of Blood Moons and Trinis you want maindeck is sort of a meta call, but you will want 4 between the main and side to combat Storm Combo.

    9) Crypt - Pretty much a must in the board as we have no control over the yard otherwise.

    10) Pithing Needle - Very useful. Very versatile. Highly recommended against Control, Survival, Belcher, and other decks.

    11) Powder Keg - Also a very versatile answer to a myriad of threats including ETW tokens and Needles naming Jittes.

    12) Demonfire - A relatively new idea for removal (which it is sadly mediocre) and a finisher (much better). Great against control, especially slow blue control.

    13) Smash, Icefall, Shattering Spree, etc - Other board options against artifacts.

    14) Flametongue Kavu - Sigh. I can't believe one of the best creatures in the game isn't viable anymore (thanks mostly to Tarmogoyf). Keep him in mind though if the meta shifts or if your meta is filled with aggro.

    15) Rolling Earthquake and Pyroclasm - Once the basis for the deck these are at best sideboard cards. Clasm is still very playable depending on the meta while Rolling Earthquake is probably not worth it anymore.

    16) Covetous Dragon - Please don't suggest this guy. He's just awful. Turning Krosan Grips into 2-for-1's and Ancient Grudges into 3-for-1's isn't what this deck wants.

    17) Pyrokenisis - Solid removal option, usually for the board that also helps hellbent and can stall ETW swarms.

    18) Empty the Warrens - A very similar deck runs ETW, but I never really understood it. I've never tested it, but sorcery speed 1/1 tokens only really seem useful if I can guarantee myself some piece of equipment, which this deck cannot.

    19) Defense Grid - Currently testing this in the board. Seems promising against blue decks so we can land our bombs.


    IV. Matchups and Tips


    vs. Thresh

    Moon and Chalice are amazing. Everything else is good. Board out the Jittes for the rest of your Blood Moons and your choice of Crypts or Powder Kegs. Remember that SSG>Daze.

    vs. Landstill

    Tough. Moons are huge. Chalices, not so much (dropping one at 2 to stop Standstill can be nice) and Trinis are even worse. Board in all the Blood Moons, Needles and Demonfire if you are running it. Be extra wary of Deed.

    Belcher

    Pretty solid with our disruption and clock. Early Belchers hurt, but we have a lot of disruption and answerers for Belcher and ETW in the board. Board out Equipment and whatever creatures you want (I prefer the five cc ones) for Needles, Trinis and Kegs/Clasm/Pryokenisis.


    TES

    Even better than Belcher since they are made to fight through counter disruption, not board based, and aren't as lightning fast. Same boarding as Belcher except leave the needles but think about bringing in the Moons, which can be surprisingly relevant.

    Enchantress

    Bad times. If you go first, you have to mulligan very aggressively for Chalice, then drop it at 1, which can very often leave your opponent in a mana hurt for a few turns. You just then have to take these few turns to clobber your opponent in the face. The few games Dragon Stompy win here are usually on the backs of Chalice and Pit Dragon, or Pyroclasm eating Enchantress.

    Goyf Sligh

    Very Winnable. Chalice @1 and 2 are solid plays, and an active Jitte is huge trouble for them. Krosan Grip WILL be coming in against you so be careful to use your Jitte counters ASAP and don't count on your Chalices to be there forever. Not sure exactly what to board in.

    vs. Survival

    Tough if they get a Survival going so lay a Chalice @2 ASAP. Boarding depends heavily on the build. Usually board out a couple Jittes and the Trinispheres for Needle, then Crypt and Clasm mostly based on what you saw in the game one. Feel free to board out all 7 moon guys and leave in Jitte/Trinisphere if they are running a particularly solid manabase.

    Loam

    Tough to give one strategy to fight all the Loam variants, but Blood Moon is where its at. Also, Chalice @2, Crypt, and Needle are great.

    Ichorid

    Crypts, Powder Keg, and Pyroclasm are must-boards in this matchup to deal with any zombie tokens or tiny beaters like Imp/Narcomoeba they get out. Jitte comes out here, and Trinisphere if you're fixing to be (someone's from the south -Phantom) on the draw, Blood Moon if you're fixing to be on the play. If you sideboard Flametongue Kavu, for the love of god
    bring him in, because you can play him and have him shoot himself or another creature you control to wreck Bridges.

    This matchup is one of the most fun to play in Legacy, because it's pretty close to even after Ichorid has the edge game one. If you ever get Chalice in the opening hand, resist the temptation to shut down Lion's Eye Diamond and do it for 1. This
    will shut off the more dangerous Breakthrough, as well as Therapy and the like.

    Cephalid Breakfast

    Very little testing here, but thoughts so far are the following combos win:

    A. Any Moon effect + Needle on Vial is huge.
    B. Chalice for 2 + Tormod's Crypt is huge (No Abeyance!)
    C. Using your damage to keep any tiny critters off the board is huge.

    Builds with Tarmogoyf backup plans are more difficult to beat, so if they're running those, you have to board in Keg as well. Board out Razormane and Jitte in this matchup, and possibly some Raiders/Dragons beyond that (Never figured out which is better) just to maximize the disruption we pack.

    None of the disruption pieces are strong enough to hold off Cephalid Breakfast on their own, but the fact that the deck runs like 25+ things that cause them minor annoyances is often sufficient to win.

    Goblins

    You will still see it so here goes. Not as good as it once was you still have a lot of threats. A quick clock. Chalice @1. Jitte. Razorcore. Needles and sweepers or Kenisis in the board. The green splash is actually the worst since Tin Street and Krosan Grip are a bitch. I will actually often lay a Chalice @2 after I have a Jitte down to stop TSH, which will stop it even if they have Vial out.

    The new black splash is less of a concern since Discard and yard have are of little concern to us.


    V. Food for Thought

    Some lingering questions:

    - What is the correct split between creatures/equipment/disruption/accel?

    - How many 5cc beaters? Which ones are superior? Is Razormanes time up?

    - For an unknown metagame, what is the optimum number of Trinis and Blood Moons mainboard?

    - Is Sword of Fire and Ice as good or bad as advertised here? 2, 3, or 4 Jitte?

    - Does ETW have a place here? Could it be useful in a specific meta? If so, which?

    - Who will be the first person to get yelled at for suggesting Covetous Dragon?

    - Is Tephraderm as amazing as he looks here?

    - Does Defense Grid deserve a spot in the board? If so, in leiu of what?

    - Demonfire. Hot or not? Or board only?

    - Does the deck need any draw or filtering? Is there any out there that the deck could run?


    Thanks for reading , and for all those who have helped with development in one way or another, or have simply piloted the deck.
    I've never seen him so upset....or ever before.

  2. #2
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    Re: Dragon Stompy

    So far Winter Orb > Defense Grid against Control but I still need more testing.
    The games against Cephalid Breakfast I played so far were lost mostly when the Breakfast player got Vial preboard and went turn 3 combo through Blood Moon and Trinisphere (paying 3 for DReturn) or gumming up the ground with various en-Kor and Goyfs while swinging with Moebas. I'd say if you board out creatures against Breakfast keep the Pit Dragons because they can get flying to stop Narcomoebas. (However this comes from limited testing (10 games) so take it with a grain of salt)
    Survival is an interesting matchup. I had games where I got first turn Blood Moon and Survival did nothing until turn 4. On the other hand there were also games where I got owned by reccuring Shriekmaw as soon as turn 3. Definitely a swingy matchup.
    One last note: Masticore is out and will stay out. He just does not do enough for me any time I draw him. Now the continuous discard comes from Mindless Automatons which perform better every time I draw them.
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  3. #3
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    Re: Dragon Stompy

    Why not just run Quake effects over Demonfires? It provides the same amount of reach but also gives you answeres to ETW and a maindeck sweeper against Goblins.
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  4. #4
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    Re: Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Whit3 Ghost View Post
    Why not just run Quake effects over Demonfires? It provides the same amount of reach but also gives you answeres to ETW and a maindeck sweeper against Goblins.
    Quakes are counterable. Quakes hurt us, especially off tombs. Quakes kill our guys if we go after a Goyf. Lastly, quakes are counterable. We are often unfavored vs control (especially if they can play around Moon or keep it off the board) but we will get in some damage. Demonfire is all about finishing off those last few points, while control sits there with a hand full of useless answer. In my limited testing, my favorite play is breaking Standstill with it while on hellbent.

    Demonfire isn't a sure thing yet, but quakes are definitely out for now (trust me when I say I've tested them here). This meta just sucks for them.

    @Silverdragon: I can't really argue with what you've said in my limited testing. My only concern is how little Winter Orb does against Thresh, what with their counters ranging from 0 to a whopping 1 mana. Defense Grid followed by either a Moon or a Chalice is huge. As for Mindless Automaton, dying to burn I guess isn't too scary with his draw ability. Dying to Krosan Grip is scary as shit though. I think I'd go with Tephraderm first, since he doesn't require an entire hand to take down a Goyf. Thanks for the input though, and I'll see if I can find some time to test.
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  5. #5
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    Re: Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Whit3 Ghost View Post
    Why not just run Quake effects over Demonfires? It provides the same amount of reach but also gives you answeres to ETW and a maindeck sweeper against Goblins.
    Kills your creatures if you are trying to get rid of goyf. As I said earlier, I hated Demonfire as removal. I cut it for Blood Moons main. I did like it as a finisher and that is the only reason that someone should run it.

    I don't think the Breakfast MU should be to hard. Siding in Crypt and Pyroclasm would be good. Chalice at 1 hurts them a ton, shutting them off of their tutors and draw. Then, hopefully back that up with a fast clock.

  6. #6
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    - Against Ichorid, play 4 Trinisphere after boarding, even if on the draw.
    They will never have 3 lands out so they will be reduced to one spell for the rest of the game and that only if they have the LED. Sure, this can be enough to still win, but it makes it harder for them. Especially if they didn't have a turn 1 Breakthrough or the nuts LED/Analysis start but in these cases Chalice and Moon would also suck. So if they just make Putrid Imp, LED go Trinisphere is your best plan, especially when backed up by Crypt (remember to play the Crypt first :p).
    It is the best disruption against them after Crypt because it makes Dread Return and Deep Analysis much harder to cast. It does everything that Chalice and Blood Moon does, it also shuts off their lands (as they will in 80% of the game not have 3 of them), Therapy and Breakthrough but it also makes Ancient Grudge Flashback nearly impossible.

    - For the second Fattie slot: Chandra Nalaar seems decent. He takes down at least one Goyf and will usually still be able to ping the opponent the next round and recharge. Against control decks he pings every round, is immune to Swords, Pernicious Deeds and Wrath Effects and they will be forced to attack you quite fast if they don't want to get hit by ability 3.

  7. #7

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    This deck looks really solid in the current meta and also really fun to play!...@ Taco and Phantom- How come you guys don't run 1-2 Demonfire in the MB? Like you said, it seems really solid as a finisher and mediocre as removal. It just seems like one of those cards that can pull you out of a tight spot and steal games late-game. Anyhow, its pretty sweet that this deck placed in a relatively big tournament. Good work guys! :D

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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    As for the number of 5cc beats, I played 6 at the same tournment Parcher did. The conclusion we both came to is that the deck really, really wants to be able to play all of the cards in its hand all the time, and playing more than just the set of slogs (I tested Covetous, Tahngarth, and other crap) did clog my hand in a couple of matches. You don't always have the chalice at one for swords and the trini against FoW, and if the big guy gets countered/swordsed and you are stuck at three/four mana, a big guy is worse than sulfur elemental.

    I'm not sold on Demonfire, either, since it never clinched a game for Parcher and I never wished that I had had it in any of my matches, but the next time I do landstill testing I'll try a couple.

    Also as a note to anyone who thinks Chandra might have a place: she doesn't. I thought it might be cool, but it was just bad.
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  9. #9
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Good, Chandra was only an idea, because Tephraderm sounds so bad. Then I'd just go with 3 or 4 Slogger and zero other 5-Mana creatures.

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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Tao View Post
    Good, Chandra was only an idea, because Tephraderm sounds so bad. Then I'd just go with 3 or 4 Slogger and zero other 5-Mana creatures.
    Chandra Nalaar is actually a pretty neat idea, but I'd consider her in the slot of Demonfire instead of the slot of Tephraderm/RazorCore/whatever else. Chandra functions more like a removal spell than anything else, and dropping out a Chandra on turn one or two could be absolutely retarded. It shouldn't take up a creature slot due to the immense dissynergy with equipment. I do really like the fact that Chandra somewhat negates the top drawback of Planeswalkers (dying to creature swings) by being able to annihilate whatever would be swinging at her.

    If you're hurting for something to take up that slot, Juggernaut's not a terrible fallback idea either, though he doesn't imprint on a Mox. Also worth investigating is Balduvian/Pillaging Horde, due to the synergy with Hellbent (Though Random discard is a heavier drawback, and double red is tough.)

    EDIT: Actually, Chandra could take up both slots in a pinch. There's no reason you can't run 3-4 Chandras given that you can always spend more Loyalty than necessary shooting something, and you can imprint them on moxes / flip Gathan Raiders with them. I think I may go test this.

    Quote Originally Posted by lukatron2 View Post
    This deck looks really solid in the current meta and also really fun to play!...@ Taco and Phantom- How come you guys don't run 1-2 Demonfire in the MB? Like you said, it seems really solid as a finisher and mediocre as removal.
    Demonfire only helps you against blue control with a tendency to stabilize late. Therefore in order to maximize its potential as a finisher, something has to stabilize against you while generally at 6 or less. Chances are they'll either stabilize earlier or die, and even if this is -not- the case, chances are you simply won't draw the Demonfire. Chandra Nalaar might be a lot better option, as it alone could be sufficient to kill some control decks, as while it's essentially an 11-turn clock, it's incredibly hard to remove.

    Also, Demonfire is an awful removal spell. Not a mediocre one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silverdragon View Post
    So far Winter Orb > Defense Grid against Control but I still need more testing.
    I heavily disagree with this. Orb hurts you as much as it hurts them in this deck. The curve isn't similar enough to Faerie Stompy to make this worthwhile. Defense Grid will allow you to resolve spells that win games, such as Blood Moon, with minimal interference. Grid is also a monster against Threshold, as it will let you drop your threats without fear of Force and Daze, and if they can't counter your stuff, you generally win threat wars, even with their Tarmogoyfs. Grid is also decent against Cephalid Breakfast, allowing you to drop out your vast array of disruption pieces without fear of Force of Will.

    Survival is an interesting matchup. I had games where I got first turn Blood Moon and Survival did nothing until turn 4. On the other hand there were also games where I got owned by reccuring Shriekmaw as soon as turn 3. Definitely a swingy matchup.
    Agreed. Survival is really bad if their manabase is good, though winning the die roll and getting Chalices or Trinispheres gives you chances. Pithing Needle also owns face here. Survival players have a tendency to say things like "Pithing Needle doesn't hurt us," but this is a complete crock, and Pithing Needle always makes them have more trouble than Not Pithing Needle.

    One last note: Masticore is out and will stay out. He just does not do enough for me any time I draw him. Now the continuous discard comes from Mindless Automatons which perform better every time I draw them.
    Mindless Automaton seems way too underwhelming for a guy who doesn't imprint on a Chrome Mox and takes multiple cards to get rolling. I think I'd rather just run Juggernaut, as I don't have a problem getting Hellbent as long as I can empty my hand, and I'd rather have the sheer aggression than the ability to draw a card if it dies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantom View Post
    and Trinisphere if you're fixing to be (someone's from the south -Phantom) on the draw,
    ...Yeah, yeah, shut up. At least I dominate all the other inbred hayseed chewers in the region at Legacy.

    Quote Originally Posted by majikal View Post
    Damn it, Taco, that exactly sums up my opinion on the matter. I need to buy you a beer for that post.

  11. #11

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    I like this deck a lot! Kinda reminds me of 5/3. I played Rakdos Pit Dragon in standard a year or so ago with seething song, and it rocked!! It seems like it would be even awesomer in legacy. I'm thinking that you want to keep your 5cc Creatures/walkers at a minimum. More often than not, you will have it in hand with only 4 potential mana in play.

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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Keldon Halberdiers is actually a bizarre and interesting choice for the mystery slot here. Granted, that toughness 1 thing kind of blows, but 4 power with First Strike is nothing to sneeze at, and the suspend gives you a play off which can be incredibly useful on a subpar starting hand.

    His suspend delay might be one turn too slow to be playable, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by majikal View Post
    Damn it, Taco, that exactly sums up my opinion on the matter. I need to buy you a beer for that post.

  13. #13

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    That is an interesting idea. . .

    However, as you said, the one toughness (Hello fanatic) sucks and so does the high suspend. I'm liking the suspend idea, though. What about Greater Gargadon. A 9/7 isn't anything to pass by quickly. Also, he costs only R.

  14. #14
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    I'm gonna say no to both of them. While they both have a very nice initial cost, it is important to realize what makes the best decks the best: consistancy. This deck already has problems with dead draws (Mox, Song, extra jitte, etc.), and topdecking something that you either can't play or that will become relevant in more than three turns is bad, straight up.

    This is the same reason that the deck should not play more than four 5cc and only three or four 4cc threats. Otherwise, you can't guarantee that they will be castable, which lowers the consistancy of the deck. If you don't agree with me, just look at Parcher's list: four slogs, and two dragons. We talked about the deck, and he agreed that there should be at least one more dragon MD. The reason for his curve? Consistancy.

    Halberdiers, Gargadon, and Chandra all lower consistancy.
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Zork View Post
    Halberdiers, Gargadon, and Chandra all lower consistancy.
    First of all, while I do agree Keldon Halberdiers probably isn't good enough to play, you can't possibly argue that it lowers consistency given that it's easier to cast something that costs in this deck than it is to cast something that costs , and Keldon Halberdiers suspends for a single red mana. I do think Chandra will likely be held out of the deck due to casting difficulties, and Gargadon's just a bad idea if you aren't running Empty the Warrens.

    Secondly, if you want consistency, play Threshold. Chalice Aggro decks are the least consistent decks in the format. While consistency -is- important, there's a line you have to draw between consistency and power, which is what the decks thrive on. The deck needs another monster attacker. Razormane's got the slot right now, but he could be better given how important Hellbent is (And sadly I've even tried splashing black for Demon's Jester.) Sadly, Sulfur Elemental, Juggernaut and Flametongue Kavu are looking better all the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by majikal View Post
    Damn it, Taco, that exactly sums up my opinion on the matter. I need to buy you a beer for that post.

  16. #16
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape View Post
    Sulfur Elemental
    Soooooo random. I had my ass handed to me by this guy when I was playing Cephalid Breakfast last weekend. If you expect any Breakfast, he makes it pretty difficult to win (not as bad as something like Plague, but not easy.)

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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Lego_Army_Man View Post
    Soooooo random. I had my ass handed to me by this guy when I was playing Cephalid Breakfast last weekend. If you expect any Breakfast, he makes it pretty difficult to win (not as bad as something like Plague, but not easy.)
    That's a very interesting point I hadn't actually thought of, as I'd already quit playing Sulfur Elemental before I started testing against Cephalid Breakfast. He doesn't stop Shaman En-Kor (Cephalid still runs him as a 1-of, don't they?), but he's havoc on Nomads.

    I still don't like the fact that he's completely undersized for the deck, though. The only reason I play Magus of the Shrimp is because he singlehandedly wins games, whereas Sulfur Elemental only does some neat tricks.

    Quote Originally Posted by majikal View Post
    Damn it, Taco, that exactly sums up my opinion on the matter. I need to buy you a beer for that post.

  18. #18

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape View Post

    I still don't like the fact that he's completely undersized for the deck, though. The only reason I play Magus of the Shrimp is because he singlehandedly wins games, whereas Sulfur Elemental only does some neat tricks.
    He maybe undersized, but he is uncounterable, has flash (surprise blocker), and can kill many white things. That AND a 3 power for three mana isn't too shabby.

  19. #19
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    So I searched with Datatog for creatures with a cost of 2R, 3R, or 4R, and the other remotely interesting options I noticed:

    Lavaborn Muse
    Lightning Elemental
    Skizzik
    Ancient Hydra
    Covetous Dragon (I went there)
    SummenSaugen: well, I use Chaos Orb, Animate Artifact, and Dance of Many to make the table we're playing on my chaos orb token
    SummenSaugen: then I flip it over and crush my opponent

  20. #20
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape View Post
    First of all, while I do agree Keldon Halberdiers probably isn't good enough to play, you can't possibly argue that it lowers consistency given that it's easier to cast something that costs in this deck than it is to cast something that costs , and Keldon Halberdiers suspends for a single red mana. I do think Chandra will likely be held out of the deck due to casting difficulties, and Gargadon's just a bad idea if you aren't running Empty the Warrens.

    Secondly, if you want consistency, play Threshold. Chalice Aggro decks are the least consistent decks in the format. While consistency -is- important, there's a line you have to draw between consistency and power, which is what the decks thrive on. The deck needs another monster attacker. Razormane's got the slot right now, but he could be better given how important Hellbent is (And sadly I've even tried splashing black for Demon's Jester.) Sadly, Sulfur Elemental, Juggernaut and Flametongue Kavu are looking better all the time.
    I understand that Halberdier suspends for R. That's great on turn 1, provided you don't want to play disruption, but my point was that topdecking him on turn 4 is bad. Either you are able to play him (which means he should probably be a better threat), or you have to suspend him, which makes him slow. I would honestly rather have something I know I will be able to play at my leisure in any situation.

    How is 4R harder than 2RR? You have 8 sources of double colorless plus 4 seething song (and song to halberd just seems weak), and then 10 red lands, 4 mox, 4 spirit guide, and again 4 song that let you get double red. Thats 12 vs. 22, or discounting song its 8 vs. 18.

    As for consistency, chalice aggro decks may be the least consistent in the format, but if you could make them more consistent, how would that be bad? It is possible to take the deck, minimize bad draws and maximize playable draws. Yes, the deck will crap out on you sometimes like when I drew 4 mountains, 4 song, and 3 mox in a row, but if I had the reverse (low land instead of low threats), I would want a threat base with the best chances of being playable.

    For reference, this is my threat base currently:

    4 Slogger
    4 Magus
    4 SSG
    4 Pit-Dragon
    3 Gathan Raiders
    3 Sulfur Elemental

    And this may change. I'm going to try to work on the conditional probabilities of being able to play each threat/disruption on turn 1, turn 2, and turn 3. I'll let you guys know what I come up with.
    Red Wizard needs food badly!

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