[DTB] Vial Goblins

[kicks_422]

I was thinking of doing that too, but I figured the only way for Goblins to lose was either to have a huge wall in front of them, or get blasted through by a lethal Tendrils. Those 8 MD "removal" spells help a lot for me. Also, for Turn 2 GoGoLackey!

[Nelis]

Yeah but that huge wall nowadays is Progenitus and that removal is also of no use vs Tendrils.

[Loxodon Baileyarch]

Does anyone run the RW build anymore? It's the only build that gets ran in my meta and it always does well. I top 8ed a 33 man tourney last night with RW as well.

I was just curious as to why i don't see it much anymore.

[kicks_422]

Yeah but that huge wall nowadays is Progenitus and that removal is also of no use vs Tendrils.

And Goblin Chieftain helps against those two cards how, exactly?

[Nelis]

I only wanted to point out that you did some strange reasoning in mentioning Stingscourger and Incinerator in regards to those two match-ups since they (obviously) are of no use there. But since you ask. Chieftain makes you win quicker!

[junkdiver]

Does anyone run the RW build anymore? It's the only build that gets ran in my meta and it always does well. I top 8ed a 33 man tourney last night with RW as well.

I was just curious as to why i don't see it much anymore.

I don't know why this thread pretty much refuses to discuss it. You can see a couple or a few pages back I asked the same thing and everyone became more interested in discussing how to fit chrome mox into the deck.... It's especially strange, considering that the only two goblins decks that made top 8 in the SCG opens in the past 6 months were white splash:

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=29840
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=29843

I say run it. It's the decision I have made also regardless of the nay saying or lack of any kind of saying about it you will find in this thread. I personally cannot explain why it is a good color to splash as I am not a goblins legacy guru, but it must obviously help some of goblins problem matchups while not making it's better matchups all that bad. People say that splashing with fetches makes you more vulnerable to stifle, but in this case I don't think it is such a big deal because adding STP or path will likely make up for opening yourself to stifle in the merfolk match as they are very vulnerable to spot removal.

So you trade the possibility of getting sitfled with some spot removal that will also help in the zoo matchup. Merfolk and zoo are both very popular, and aggro decks seem to be really gaining ground in the legacy format, so the white splash becomes somewhat more viable because swords becomes more viable.

Also being able to play silence/orim's chant on top of bringing in Thorn of Amethyst, might make the combo matchup not as much of an auto loss. Oh and you get disenchant in the sideboard which is a very good anti-hate card for goblins as eng plague/humility/moat etc can be game over.

This is all very much theory and speculation on my part I admit as I am inexperienced with legacy goblins so I couldn't say one version over the other, but the SCG open results while not being the 100% determining factor in what version is best, are in fact important in shining light on what works in what decks. I think in light of this we should at least discuss the white splash, even if it isn't the best option in every meta it is clearly a viable option.

[jrsthethird]

I was going to run white splash until I saw how much RB goblins got out of Lorwyn block. I don't think I want to give up my Frogtosser Bannerets and Earwig Squads.

[bakofried]

What's the optimal manabase to avoid colorscrew in Mono-Red goblins?

[Ozymandias]

4 Wasteland and 17-18 Mountain gets you to RR on turn 3 on the play by far the vast majority of the time, and I doubt there's much of a change to slice 1-2 mountain for some Rishadan Ports

[FoulQ]

Does anyone run the RW build anymore? It's the only build that gets ran in my meta and it always does well. I top 8ed a 33 man tourney last night with RW as well.

I was just curious as to why i don't see it much anymore.

Plenty of people play RW, and there has been a lot of discussion about it in the past. The issue is that current metagame shifts are making the black splash much more desirable.

The thing about RW is that it isn't the best at anything, but it isn't the worst at anything. So it can be good in a meta that you don't know, but over time as you get to know your meta, MonoR or RB (and sometimes RG) prove to be better.

At least that's my take on it.

[JonBarber]

I decided to play RB goblins at my local event yesterday and went 4-0 (8-2) for a top 8 split. My matchups were Team America (2-0), Solidarity (2-0), White Stax (2-1), and Merfolk (2-1). I'm very pleased with this decks performance. I'm going to continue making plugs for Warren Instigator because he is SO good. If he connects I win the game. It forces my opponent to have to deal with him, which screws up their game. I'm running 4 waste and 2 ports and have no problem dropping him turn 2.

[jrsthethird]

I played RB at a local event yesterday as well. I went 3-2, lost to Pro-Bant because of a bad Matron tutor, and then a countered Perish. Also lost to mono-red Goblins when I got 2 horrible draws and he went Lackey-Ringleader on turn 2 both games.

The notable thing, however, was my 2-0 win against Storm combo, without Ad Nauseum (I have no clue what the name of this deck is). Game 1 she mulled to 5 and didn't play anything while I prowled 2 Earwig Squads (bad draw for her, I understand that game 1 shouldn't have gone this way), but game 2, after board I started with Duress and Chalice in my hand and stole a Ponder while dropping the Chalice for 0, then a couple turns later I drew another Chalice and played for 1. I'm pretty sold now on Chalice in the board, after hearing other people talk about it and subsequently stealing (what I perceive to be) my worst matchup.

[Nelis]

Can you post your list because you have Earwig Squad in your main and what was your sideboard?

[jrsthethird]

List from Sunday:

6 Mountain
4 Badlands
3 Auntie's Hovel
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wasteland
2 Rishadan Port

4 Aether Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Frogtosser Banneret
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Matron
3 Warren Instigator
2 Stingscourger
2 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Siege-Gang Commander
2 Goblin Chieftan
2 Goblin Piledriver
2 Earwig Squad
1 Mogg War Marshal
1 Warren Weirding
1 Wort, Boggart Auntie

Sideboard:
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Tormod's Crypt
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Thoughtseize
1 Duress (couldn't borrow a 4th Seize...=( )
3 Perish

As far as the Instigator goes, It was my first time testing with him (I was burnt out from Vestal and didn't test all week even though I made changes...I figure I had nothing to lose since the tournament was free). I only saw him once, and he wasn't relevant (My opponent mulled to six, played a Trop and an Elf, I wasted the Trop and traded a Lackey with the Elf so he was a sitting duck).

[Nelis]

A specific reason you put in 2 Squads like an expected metagame? And did you board them out often and when? I'm just wondering if it's really worth running them main.

About Thoughtseize. Did you actually use them in creature matchups? Because wouldn't Duress be enough otherwise?

[Mantis]

Seize grabs Argothian Enchantress, Magus of the Tabernacle and helps in the mirror where Weirding is pretty much useless. The lifeloss is negligible against ANT, as storm is usually not a problem for ANT and Belcher so Id say Seize is almost strictly superior.

[Nelis]

Good points. I never really think of decks like Enchantre and Stax.

The life loss could be relevant vs Belcher because of Empty The Warren tokens.

But I agree that Thoughtseize is the better option.

[jrsthethird]

A specific reason you put in 2 Squads like an expected metagame? And did you board them out often and when? I'm just wondering if it's really worth running them main.

About Thoughtseize. Did you actually use them in creature matchups? Because wouldn't Duress be enough otherwise?

I didn't use them in creature matchups but I suppose it is better than Weirding in the mirror. And I figure if 2 life is making a difference I'm probably behind anyway, whether I had Duress or Seize.

I just like Earwig Squad. He's especially useful early if you know you're playing a lot of Progenitus decks (which seems very common nowadays). I haven't boarded them out since every matchup there was something good to remove (Progenitus, singleton creatures for Survival, Storm combo). The other 2 games were against U/G madness (I didn't even bother boarding for this because I'm pretty sure this deck is irrelevant anymore) and mono-R Goblins, but on second thought it might be better to run Seize instead of Squad in that matchup (steal a Ringleader or Matron and I gain pseudo-card advantage on them).

He's also nice because he trades with Goyf. There are a couple games I've won because he's a 5- or 6-power beater that can get there when a 2- or 3- guy just can't.

[FoulQ]

I just like Earwig Squad. He's especially useful early if you know you're playing a lot of Progenitus decks (which seems very common nowadays). I haven't boarded them out since every matchup there was something good to remove (Progenitus, singleton creatures for Survival, Storm combo). The other 2 games were against U/G madness (I didn't even bother boarding for this because I'm pretty sure this deck is irrelevant anymore) and mono-R Goblins, but on second thought it might be better to run Seize instead of Squad in that matchup (steal a Ringleader or Matron and I gain pseudo-card advantage on them).

He's also nice because he trades with Goyf. There are a couple games I've won because he's a 5- or 6-power beater that can get there when a 2- or 3- guy just can't.

I'm sadly starting to agree that earwig squad is playable. I've always hated that card, and I still think it's playability is marginal because of its awkward casting cost, but it definitely deserves a second look, if not MD then at least SB. It does a decent job versus a lot of decks and a great job against a few.

I've also been casually testing thoughtseize and yeah, it has been the shit for me as well.

The rise of progenitus, iona, and combo makes the deck need black pretty badly. However, I don't know if such a shift is really better than just switching decks altogether.

[FoxBlade]

So I have a question...

I'm trying to build a goblin deck with a black splash and I wonder what the opinion is for using cover of darkness?

I was thinking that + warren instigator or piledriver is pretty nasty with that. I dunno, sounds pretty nasty in theory, so I'm going to playtest it - but yeah what do you all think of it?