[DTB] Vial Goblins

[GoboLord]

Tournament Report: German Nationals 2010


Hey guys,

here is my tournament report that may be fun or interesting to read, (or maybe even stuff for new discussions). I learned a lot at this tourney and I want to share my experiences.

First of all: the list

//Lands [22]
4 Mountain
2 Badlands
2 Taiga
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port

//Core [26]
4 AEther Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Ringleader
2 Siege-Gang Commander

//Flex-Slots [12]
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Stingscourger
2 Mogg War Marshall
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Tin-Street Hooligan

//Sideboard [15]
3 Nature’s Claim
3 Perish
2 Pyrokinesis
3 Ley-Line of the Void
4 Chalice of the Void

So here are my pairings:

Round 1 – Zoo-Survival Stefan
On the play he begins with Savannah, Nacatl, Go. I’m expecting Zoo, and had Mountain, Lackey, Go with no removal on hand. He drops Wasteland and Survival(!) on turn 2. He manages to get his Squee + Survival online, which enables him to drop a creature each turn. Ports and Wastelands couldn’t stop his mana-flood. 35 minutes (and tons of removal burning down Goblins and Goyfs) later he took me down with 3 huge Knight of the Reliquary.

0-1 (3 Perish)

In game 2 I keep a weak hand with Port, Vial, 2 Perish, Lackey, 2 Matron. I play Port, Vial, Go. On turn 3 Pridemage took my Vial, leaving me with only Port and a Lackey in play. I draw Scalding Tarn. No I just had to wait for one more land to play Perish. In the following turn he plays KotR, leaving me exactly 1 turn to find a 3rd land before he has Wasteland for my Port. Of course I didn’t find the land. Tarmogoyf, and Knight (feat. Wasteland) quickly ended the lousy MU.

0-2 (0-1-0)

Round 2 – Merfolk (Mono U) Felix
He goes first with Island, Go. The following 3 turns were as follows: Lackey Daze. Mogg War Marshal  Daze. Piledriver  Daze. Luckily I saw 3 different with Daze, telling me that 3/7 cards on his hands were lands, and none was a 1-drop. For the rest of the game, Matron into Ringleader into many more Goblins convinced my opponent to scoop.

1-0 (2 Pyrokinesis)

I don’t have much memory left from this match. He never was much of a threat in that game, cause didn’t have creatures. 2 Spell Snare hit 2 Piledriver. He had Jitte since turn 2. Rejeerey came via Vial and attacked with Jitte next turn. I chumpblocked with Mogg War Marshall. With 2 tokens and 1 Warchief in play and nothing but Bloodstained Mire on hand. I desperately needed to topdeck my 1-off TSH. Before he had a chance draw FoW/Blue elemental Blast. Luckily I did. I sent my Warchief for an attack, which he destroyed with his Jitte-counters. In postcombat mainphase I fetched for Taiga, played TSH.

2-0 (1-1-0)

Round 3-Merfolk (Mono U) Holger
The first 4 rounds were as follows: Lackey –> Daze, Piledriver  Daze, Piledriver  FoW Standstill, Matron  FoW (Standstill). In turn 4 I played Matron, which he forced. While thinking about what to pitch I said: “C’mon. Take Lord of Atlantis, it’s useless against Goblins”. He reacted like “How did you know what I’m playing?”...Well, thanks, I didn’t. Ringleader finished him off. I really like running into tons of Daze when they don’t have 1st turn Vial.

1-0 (2 Pyrokinesis)

He plays Island, Go. I Play Mountain, Lackey, Go (with 2 SGC, Matron, Gempalm and Lightning Bolt on hand). He plays Cursecatcher. I play Bolt for catcher, Lackey brings in SGC. He drops Lord of Atlantis. I sac a token for Lord- Lackey brings in my second SGC. In his turn he was thinking for a long time. Suddenly Gempalm Incinerator “slipped” through my fingers and landed on the table face-up – that seemed to quicken his decision.

2-0 (2-1-0)

Round 4 – 4c Landstill feat. Pernicious Deed and Life from the Loam Jasper
In game 1 mull down to 4 cursing my “brainless” decision to run Ports. I only had Vial and 3 Lands. He finished me off quickly with Pernicious Deed and double Factory.

0-1 (3 Nature’s Claim)

I start with Mountain, Lackey, Go, which he “sworded”. In turn 2 I dropped another Lackey and Vial. I missed a landdrop on turn 3 and had to pass with SGC and Nature’s Claim in hand. He played Pernicious Deed which was destroyed by my Nature’s Claim in EOT. Next turn Lackey brings in SGC. He draws, and scoops, showing me 6 Lands on his hand (none of which was a Factory).

1-1 (nothing)

In game 3 I keep a risky hand with Vial, Scalding Tarn, 2 Matron, Gempalm, Ringleader. So far I didnt see any Forces or Counterspells. So I decided for myself that he wouldn’t “force” my 1st-turn Vial. He didn’t. Now it was his turn to mull down to 4. My Vial survived long enough and Ports and Wasteland did their job to shut him off his 3rd mana.

2-1 (3-1-0)

Round 5 – Dreadstill (Ur) Simon
In game 1 both of us did pretty much of nothing. In early turns I played Matron  Stingscourger. I guessed that he was playing Dreadnought, but wasn’t sure so I didn’t search TSH. A Firespout in midgame stopped me. Several turns later he finally showed me that I was right: Trinket Mage  Dreadnought. I really hoped that he forgot my Stingscourger in hand. One turn later he played Dreadnought + Stifle, and got all-in with CB + Top. Now he had no cards in hand and no untapped lands to use Top. On my turn I played Stingscourger and a blind(!) CB revealed Daze, well...

0-1 (4 Chalice, 3 Nature’s Claim)

I went first with Mountain, Vial (wich got forced), Go (having 2 Taiga, 2 Lackey and Chalice in hand). On turn 2 I played Chalice of the Void @ 1. I was afraid of an early Nought and I thought Lackey would run into Factory eitherway. Well afterall I must admit this was a bad mistake. 2 turns later he played Standstill, which I broke by playing Goblin Lackey (!!). He drew 3 cards when I realized my ugly misplay. Still I asked him if Laykey resolves (maybe he didn’t notice my mistake). “Of course not!” he said, pointing to my Chalice. He had Curcible to waste me out of the game. I had another Chalice @ 0 to stop EE. One turn later he dropped a second Wasteland and played EE for 2 colorless.

0-2 (3-2-0)

Round 6 – Bant Survival feat. Jace 2.0 Christian
Well we talked about each other’s lists on the way to the tournament. He was the one to borrow me a Playset of Rishadan Ports.

In game 1 I went first with (guess what?) Mountain, Lackey, Go. The match quickly ended after I had SGC and Piledriver enter the battlefield on turn 2.

1-0 (3 Nature’s Claim)

In game 2 he had too many Goyfs and War Monks to stall me, while Jace finished me off.

1-1 (nothing)
In game 3 I had to take down Iona and Jace and Survival before I could stop his card advantage. It took several turns where Tarmogoyfs fell prey to Piledrivers and Lackeys to War Monks. After counting his leftover creatures in deck he scooped.

Round 7 – Zoo (Sligh feat. Goblin Guide) Alex
In game 1 I had hard times because of his Goblin Guide. The match was decided when I counted wrong and went all-in to kill him, ignoring that his 9/9 KotR was able to block. One turn after he hit me with his Knight and and had double Chainlightning + Fireblast.

0-1 (3 Perish, 2 Pyrokinesis)

In game 2 I had tons of removal + Lackey. On his turn he asked me if he should play Goblin Guide or a removal for Lackey. I didn’t answer that question. Next he asked if Zoo is a good MU for Goblins. That was when I realized that he really had no idea. He told me that he borrowed this deck and that he is actually a T2 player. Well... I won that game easily because he decided to attack with Goblin Guide.

1-1 (nothing)

Game 3 was the most exciting match I had that day. He started spamming creature. My Perish was useless against triple Goblin Guide and Grim Lavamancer. With only 8 lifes left I was able to play Pyrokinesis and trade Goblin tokens for Guides. After that I had Lightning Bolt, Gempalm and finnaly my Perish was usefull when destroying Pridemage and Nacatl. Now it was my turn to do some damage. Regular time was over, we had 5 extra turns. In my last extra turn he had 5 life, I had SGC on hand and 5 lands in play. In my upkeep he wanted to shake hands and draw (cause I wasn’t able to kill him from his point of view). I showed him my SGC. “Well,” someone watching the match said “you got to topdeck a land and it better be a red one”. I just flipped the top card over...Mountain! Loud laughter broke out.

2-1 (5-2-0)

Round 8 – Zoo, Pro Naya feat. NO Progenitus Denis
In game 1 he had turn 3 Thoctar which attacked in tunr 4 and was replaced by Progenitus in 2nd mainphase.

0-1 (Perish)

In game 2 I was flooded, but nevertheless had 2 Perish. Still, Jitte ended the game (cause TSH was waiting in my sideboard). Just what I deserved...

0-2 (5-3-0)

Round 9 – MUC feat. Firespout Christof
In game 1 I was on the play. After mulligan on 4 (!) I started with (guess what?)...Taiga, Lackey, Go (Badlands and Vial in hand). I topdecked Matron, which came via Lackey. Matron  Ringleader  fun. I took him down with those guys and only saw 3 Relic of Progenitus and Jace 2.0.

1-0 (3 Nature’s Claim)

In game 2 had had what I boarded Nature’s Claim for: Vedalken Shakles. 3 of them were too much. I scooped to possibly rush him in game 3.

1-1 (nothing)

Game 3 took very long. Here is a short cut. He took a lot of damage. Ports shut him of his only red source to avoid Firespout. Then extra turns were announced. Vial @ 5, Opp’s life @ 9. SGC in hand. Several Goblins on my side of the battlefield. He controlled an untapped Shakles and 4 Lands. My plan was clear: Tap his Mountain in upkeep, bring in SGC in EOT, copy it with Kiki-Jiki, launch for a deadly attack in my last extra turn. Well... I forgot to tap his Mountain. So he played Firespout. I was thinking for a long time and then I decided to do my 2nd ugly misplay this day: I pitched SGC in response (!) on Firespout, tapped 6 mana and did 6 damage to his lifes. Then my board was cleared, so was his hand. Well... it was my last extra turn and the game took both of my SGCs. I decided to draw Lightning Bolt from top. And that’s what I did. Again the audience just laughed.

2-1 (6-3-0)


Conclusion (+ and -)

+ I’m in love with MD TSH (thank you Foul Q, replaced Goblin Tunnler last minute)
+ had some very funny matches
+ my ability to topdeck what I need saved my ass 3 times
+ was able to play Ports and I liked it (although my ist is 3c)
+ didn’t face combo
+ was the most successful Goblin player that day (afaik)
- Kiki-Jiki suckes, is going to be replaced my another MWM
- didn’t need Leylines
- 2 ugly misplays

[sealab2021]

Tournament Report: German Nationals 2010

Conclusion (+ and -)

+ I’m in love with MD TSH (thank you Foul Q, replaced Goblin Tunnler last minute)
+ had some very funny matches
+ my ability to topdeck what I need saved my ass 3 times
+ was able to play Ports and I liked it (although my ist is 3c)
+ didn’t face combo
+ was the most successful Goblin player that day (afaik)
- Kiki-Jiki suckes, is going to be replaced my another MWM
- didn’t need Leylines
- 2 ugly misplays

Nice report Gobo, enjoyed reading it. Few questions for ya though:

You never ran into issues with your manabase running three colors + 4 ports & 4 wastes?

You would replace Leylines with planar void or relic if you could?

Also sweet that goblins is back in decks to beat

[ScatmanX]

Yeaah! DTB!
(reading Report)

Edit:
Nice Report! Congrats there.
I would never play with that manabase, but it seems to have worked out for you.
Have a couple of questions:

- Why didn't you board in Perish against Bant Survival?
- Why no Knesis against NO-Zoo?
- Do you think 1 Weirding MD would have helped you somewhere?
- Did your Ringleaders ever disappointed you, specially post-SB?

[GoboLord]

You never ran into issues with your manabase running three colors + 4 ports & 4 wastes?

You would replace Leylines with planar void or relic if you could?

Well, I have to answer that questions from different perspectives, cause there probably is no simple answer to it.

First of all: I never tested Ports before on a tournament, so it will take some more testing to come to a conclusion. My first impression was that 4 Ports + 4 Wastelands are alright.
But one has to consider that my list is Mono R MD and that I just added G and B for 3 SB slots each. Therefore I can actually avoid to be screwed on R preboard.
Looking at the tournament:
Only 3 out of 9 decks I met had manadenial (Survival-Zoo, 2nd Merfolk and Dreadstill). This was actually a bit lucky because I feel that about half of the decks I meet run manadenial.
Ports were problematic only twice:
First: the Survival Zoo deck avoided Perish in G3 by wasting my Port. With a Mountain instead, I would have probably won.
Second: Against Landstill I had to mull down to 4 because I had no Mountain on my 1st and 3rd hand (but had Ports).

Looking at those scenarios I'd say that this could have happened to a Mono colored list too. I didn't have any problems because I was 3-colored + 4 Ports.

On the other hand one reason to cut Kiki-Jiki (for MWM) was that I found his mana cost disturbing in combination with Ports. RRR is the maxium I got to produce that day.

Still I cant say that 4 is the optimal number. Maybe 3 or even 2 are enough. I didn't finds Ports imortant in the most games. Well against 2 Merfolk decks, Landstill and MUC it was useful to block either Mutavaults or shut them off their important mana. Against 2 Survival and 2 Zoos it was pretty useless, cause they could successfully use that mana in response.

To cut a long story short:
- they didnt disturb me heavily
- they didnt saved my ass twice
- I was a bit lucky with my MUs
- maybe it needs some more testing to find out the right number
- maybe I must learn to use them better. I can imagine that I overused them.

Leylines vs. Relic/Planar Void: Well I didnt get to use Leylines in this tourney, but I wont replace them. I use Leyline in very few MUs: Lands, Random XYZ- Loam, Dredge, Reanimator. I those MUs I either have to take mulligan on Leyline or a killer hand without Leyline. Leyline just increases the possibility of strong hands (even when I dont have it on my opening hand. The main reason for Leyline is, that those decks cant do anything with their grave before it comes into play. I know the risks I take with it, but I would never run GY hate that clashes with Lackey/Vial in Turn 1. I'd rather run Crypts than Planar Void and Relics.

//EDIT: @ ScathmanX

- Why didn't you board in Perish against Bant Survival?

I knew he would expect them (because he knew my deck as a whole, as I said)
I think this deck heaviliy relies on Survival's card advantage. Shutting him off this advantage is a road to victory I guess.
Perish doesnt stop Iona.
After all it worked out. I asked him after the game what he would have done. He agreed with me. I rely on his oppion much, because he is (as I said) a really skillfull player.

- Why no Knesis against NO-Zoo?

I didnt know the deck. I only got to see Thoctar, NO and Progenitus.
I felt 11 removal postboard would be enough.
Now that I learned what the deck does, I'd board Kinesis too.

- Do you think 1 Weirding MD would have helped you somewhere?

Yes, against NO-Zoo as a solution for Progenitus. I played Matron to go for another Piledriver to race him.
Still I wouldnt add it, because I want to hide my "3-colorness" in game 1 and I think the other removals are better.
Plus I hate making Goyf big(ger) by adding Sorcery and Tribal to his collection.

- Did your Ringleaders ever disappointed you, specially post-SB?

On this tournament they didn't.
Well, I have a rather strange view when it comes to my favorite Ringleaders: IMO they cant dissapoint me because what they reveal is never bad. It's just a question of timing to make them good. No offense intended, but if you want to shatter my worldview please let me know if you disaggree. I Just want to find out if my view on Ringleader is bullet-proof.



//2nd Edit:
Thank you for your mindful comments! I really love to discuss questions that go deeper than the obvious surface. Thanks for that!

[FoulQ]

Glad to see you picked up the TSH tech and are dropping Kiki-Jiki. I've been advocating both of those things for what feels like years now.

If you are playing 3c I would definitely want warren weirding in my 75. Probably x1 in the MD as it is tutorable solid removal. Possibly more in the sideboard for the decks that rely on 1-2 excellent creatures (countertop, new horizons, stompy decks, etc).

I see you only boarded in your chalices once and they didn't pan out. I think it is a bad card in goblin sideboards. For one, we can't abuse chalice as much as other decks, and chalice IS a design constraint just like countertop, albeit smaller. Most decks pack an answer to chalice decks, and we are just a deck awkwardly using chalice. It has a cool surprise factor but so do a lot of goblin cards. However, this is all unrelated to the combo matchup and I know people have personal preferences for combo hate in goblins.

I haven't tested your configuration at all so I can't really comment on the manabase, it looks possible though since the splashes are very light. 8 removal is quite a bit already so if you ever added x1 weirding to the MD you'd want to take out one of them.

[GoboLord]

Glad to see you picked up the TSH tech and are dropping Kiki-Jiki. I've been advocating both of those things for what feels like years now.

If you are playing 3c I would definitely want warren weirding in my 75. Probably x1 in the MD as it is tutorable solid removal. Possibly more in the sideboard for the decks that rely on 1-2 excellent creatures (countertop, new horizons, stompy decks, etc).

I see you only boarded in your chalices once and they didn't pan out. I think it is a bad card in goblin sideboards. For one, we can't abuse chalice as much as other decks, and chalice IS a design constraint just like countertop, albeit smaller. Most decks pack an answer to chalice decks, and we are just a deck awkwardly using chalice. It has a cool surprise factor but so do a lot of goblin cards. However, this is all unrelated to the combo matchup and I know people have personal preferences for combo hate in goblins.

I haven't tested your configuration at all so I can't really comment on the manabase, it looks possible though since the splashes are very light. 8 removal is quite a bit already so if you ever added x1 weirding to the MD you'd want to take out one of them.

I'd like to see how you would embed WW in the list I posted above. I would cut one of the 8 removals in MD as you said, but how would the board change? Would you like to edit a list with WW to your last post?

[bakofried]

So what's the strongest splash color now, if at all? Is it still black, or is Weirding ineffective now?

[FoulQ]

Well the obvious pick I think is -1 gempalm. I'm not really a fan of lightning bolt, but if one does play it, it should be x3 or x4 in my opinion so you get the reach benefit and so you get it early enough. So I wouldn't cut bolt for the weirding. I have a pretty massive hardon for stingscourger most of the time, so I wouldn't cut him, I would go with gempalm.

I also agree +1 MWM is the best move for the Kiki Jiki, of all the options. Possibly a singleton chieftain but it depends. He can be a nice tutor target sometimes in aggro races when piledriver will just get chumped. He also wins the mirror singlehandedly (barring removal obviously). And he's a killer late game draw.

I would base my SB off the Columbus meta, but I don't really know what it's like in Germany. I'm an AMERICAN (proud to be).

3 Krosan Grip
4 Perish
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Warren Weirding
4 GY Hate of your choice

Nature's Claim might be good, but I stick to the reliable tested card for now. I don't know how good weirding would really be for you, considering you only have 1 deck that I would really want to board it in for (dreadstill) in your nine rounds. It can randomly come in as extra removal against other decks but that is more of an impromptu decision based on playstyle and your opponent's specific 75.

Why no pyrokinesis? Perish + Pyrokinesis is a little bit overkill in the zoo matchup I think. My strategy is still overextend goblin swarm ringleader CA (nobody runs pyroclasm thankfully) into a SGC horde or a double piledriver kill before they have a chance to restabilize with KotRs and jittes. You really only need 1-2 sweepers, drawing a bunch of perishes and pyrokinesis early when you need to get the CA engine running really sucks.

I still think perish + pyrokinesis is doable (especially in your configuration, only 5 total) but, REB is really hot right now, and warren weirding covers some matchups that we otherwise would have nothing for. So not enough space for everything in my SB. Pyrokinesis is good and it's one of my favorite SB cards for the deck, but if you are black splashing it seems pretty pointless just for weirding.

About REB...Ichorid, Storm, Jace, Standstill decks (including landstill, dreadstill, merfolk), generic blue control decks (usually with Jace so that helps), and depending on factors decks like countertop or new horizons based on what I'm expecting.

I also believe enchantment/artifact removal is worth splashing green for in the Columbus meta. Black has its advantages and disadvantages, right now I'm not playing it, but I could see myself going 3c.

The only thing that slightly concerns me with this SB configuration is only x4 cards for the zoo matchup. But I don't know if I really want more because of ringleader dilution. Hard to say.

And I never leave home without x4 graveyard hate in my sideboard, always.

[Amon Amarth]

In an unknown meta I'd go with mono Red while I'd probably splash Black if there is lot of aggro and aggro control. Most of these decks tend to fold to Perish and lack any way to recover before you smash them. Green is mostly just for Krosan Grip and Tin-Street Hooligan, so if you have lots of weird fringe decks like Aluren, Enchantress or Stax that might be something to consider as well.

I also enjoy the miser Chieftain too, especially if you are running Mogg War-Marshall. I always try and find a way to fit one in somewhere.

[TheSleeper]

Gobolord: How did you find Nature's Claim? I haven't seen much discussion on this over Krosan Grip (sorry if I missed it).

[Jay_Gatz]

With the rise in decks running plagues in the board in my meta I'm trying out Boggart Shenanigans. Has anyone had experience with this?

[bakofried]

I would suggest splashing green for Grips if there are a lot of E. Plagues in your meta. Though running a single copy of Boartusk Liege in the board, coupled with a chieftain or two main should deal with it. (this is untested advice, however: be warned)

On another note, what splash, if any would deal with blue based board control (i.e. landstill and the like) the best? My thoughts would be Mono-R, just because Port+Waste can make things awkward for them, however, sometimes you need to blow some shit up, which green is far better at than red. So, thoughts?

[Amon Amarth]

Mono Red is probably better against Landstill-esque decks because they aren't vulnerable to there wastelands and they are weak vs yours. And if you think it warrants it you can always play Blood Moon or Price of Progress in the SB.

[GoboLord]

@ FoulQ
What you said makes sense (only that I'll stick 3 GY hate slots), I will test this configuration. Thanks for that.

Gobolord: How did you find Nature's Claim? I haven't seen much discussion on this over Krosan Grip (sorry if I missed it).

Afaik there hasn't been much discussion in this thread.
I boarded Nature's Claim in against 4 decks: Landstill, Dreadstill, Bant Survival and MUC. All of those deck run counters. Therefore Krosan Grip would have been saver. After all I came to use it against Landstill and Bant Survival, both times it wasn't countered. There are two possibilities:

1. They didnt have counters on hand
2. They didnt expect their Enchantments to be destroyed with only 1 mana, so they didnt play it with counter back-up.

I think I was lucky that day, because it wasn't countered, but on the other hand, many decks against whoich I would use it (Mono Black, Staxx) can't counter it. So Claim is better in those MUs because it doesnt slow you down. Second you dont run into situation where you have the card on hand, one taiga in play and you taiga is being destroyed before you draw your 3rd land. It's easier to keep you away from the 3rd mana than form one.

I cant say which one is better, it depends on the meta. Looking at the decks I faced Grip would have been saver, but I think it was the surprise factor that got them here.

[Muradin]

@Gobolord: Ah nice, I saw you playing against Simon Ritzka and didn't know it was you.(I also played you on MWS once so far)
Reading your report was a pleasure and props on having the best finish out of the goblins pilots. I also think that TSH maindeck is probably the way to go, but why did you run Lightning Bolts maindeck in a Rbg list instead of Warren Weirdings?

[GoboLord]

@Gobolord: Ah nice, I saw you playing against Simon Ritzka and didn't know it was you.(I also played you on MWS once so far)
Reading your report was a pleasure and props on having the best finish out of the goblins pilots. I also think that TSH maindeck is probably the way to go, but why did you run Lightning Bolts maindeck in a Rbg list instead of Warren Weirdings?

Thank you! Did you run Goblins that day? Did we talk about something? I want to recognize you too :-D

@ the topic of Lightning Bolt:

I am running a tight mana base: my deck is 3-colored and nevertheless has 4 Port + 4 Wastelands. I thought that this might be possible if I stay mono R preboard. If I'd run Warren Weiridng I'd need more badlands and probably more fetchlands. I'd have to cut Mountains for that. That would have been a bad choice I guess. Therefore I needed 8 removal slots that can be played with only red mana (so that I can reliably cast them). Well, that's why I ended up with 3 Gempalm, 2 Scourger, 3 Bolts. I neither want to have more Gempalm nor more Scourger and Lightning Bolt is the best leftover red removal I guess. I could have played Pyrokinesis instead but my skills in using that card are very limited (that's why I only run 2 in SB).

[FoulQ]

@ the topic of Lightning Bolt:

I am running a tight mana base: my deck is 3-colored and nevertheless has 4 Port + 4 Wastelands. I thought that this might be possible if I stay mono R preboard. If I'd run Warren Weiridng I'd need more badlands and probably more fetchlands. I'd have to cut Mountains for that. That would have been a bad choice I guess. Therefore I needed 8 removal slots that can be played with only red mana (so that I can reliably cast them). Well, that's why I ended up with 3 Gempalm, 2 Scourger, 3 Bolts. I neither want to have more Gempalm nor more Scourger and Lightning Bolt is the best leftover red removal I guess. I could have played Pyrokinesis instead but my skills in using that card are very limited (that's why I only run 2 in SB).

Ah, that clarifies things quite a bit actually. So it comes down to, rather have port/bolt or manalands/weirding, but this implies that the SB green cards are worth it (since you could run RB and still run 4waste+4port imo). Are they? That's up to individual judgment and metas I suppose.

[GoboLord]

Ah, that clarifies things quite a bit actually. So it comes down to, rather have port/bolt or manalands/weirding, but this implies that the SB green cards are worth it (since you could run RB and still run 4waste+4port imo). Are they? That's up to individual judgment and metas I suppose.

Exactly.
Not only are the SB green cards (Nature's Claim) worth it but so is Tin-Street Hooligan (which I don't want to cut anymore).

[Lejay]

How is nature's claim good ? It doesn't fit any of your game plans except maybe against affinity. In your report it has been good for full taped pernicious deed (needle is obviously better for any deed), and dreadnought which you have warrens/stingsourgers for.

[Humphrey]

Ive tested TNH in the beginning, when I was running green and i never found him that useful. If you have Warchief you cant use the alternative cost and you cant vial him in.
Since I dont see the necessity for a green splash atm, although it might become again if people run more Plagues, id use Tuktuk Scrapper instead.