[DTB] Vial Goblins

[Vandalize]

jin and Lejay were talking about the Elfball matchup. This is another matchup where CotV @1 simply kills the deck. If they board in some KGrips or something, CotV can delay them two or three turns, and you can OFTEN find a sharpshooter in time.

I play monoR list with 4 CotV in board. And it has been REALLY useful against the Zoo matchup. Starting off with a Vial turn 1, followed by a turn 2 CotV @1 means shutting off their spot removal (in form of Swords to Plowshares, Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning, Path to Exile, Grim Lavamancer and still hit semi-big dudes like Wild Nacatl, Loam Lion and Kird Ape).

I use this sideboard:

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Pyrokinesis
3 Pithing Needle
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Shattering Spree
1 TukTuk Scrapper

And I usually side like this against Zoo:

+4 CotV
+3 Pyrokinesis
-3 Piledriver
-3 Lightning Bolt (weak with CotV)
-1 SGC

[jin]

jin and Lejay were talking about the Elfball matchup. This is another matchup where CotV @1 simply kills the deck. If they board in some KGrips or something, CotV can delay them two or three turns, and you can OFTEN find a sharpshooter in time.

I play monoR list with 4 CotV in board. And it has been REALLY useful against the Zoo matchup. Starting off with a Vial turn 1, followed by a turn 2 CotV @1 means shutting off their spot removal (in form of Swords to Plowshares, Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning, Path to Exile, Grim Lavamancer and still hit semi-big dudes like Wild Nacatl, Loam Lion and Kird Ape).

I use this sideboard:

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Pyrokinesis
3 Pithing Needle
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Shattering Spree
1 TukTuk Scrapper

And I usually side like this against Zoo:

+4 CotV
+3 Pyrokinesis
-3 Piledriver
-3 Lightning Bolt (weak with CotV)
-1 SGC

I used to board in Chalice against Zoo but have moved on from that since Pridemage. Has Pridemage been a thorn in your side in this match up? (no puns intended)

[Vandalize]

If you can keep up the manadenial, Pridemages can't hit the battlefield, since Zoo has a very nonbasic manabase. Still, they only run 2~3 Pridemages main deck, it's not very likely for them to have it. If they do enter the battlefield, you can hold your chalice and Pyrokinesis/Bolt the pridemage before laying it down.

[Nelis]

And I usually side like this against Zoo:

+4 CotV
+3 Pyrokinesis
-3 Piledriver
-3 Lightning Bolt (weak with CotV)
-1 SGC

I thought Lightning Bolts were added primarily for the Zoo match-up. But if you board them out vs zoo why dilute your main deck with non goblins spells in the first place?

[GoboLord]

I thought Lightning Bolts were added primarily for the Zoo match-up. But if you board them out vs zoo why dilute your main deck with non goblins spells in the first place?

I second that!!! (adding another 1 milion "!"s)
Bolt is killer against Zoo: it kills almost every creature they have.
Chalice is an awful topdeck and does nothing after turn 3 or 4, while Bolt is always welcome in this MU. Going for the manadenial plan is a really bad idea in the first few turns, because it costs a lot of time and resources...and most important thing: you have problems summoning defenses when you are busy with manadenial - and thats what you need to do in the entire game. You don't need to shut anything down in their deck because they will run out of resources very quickly, while you can refill your hand and board with Matron, Ringleader and SGC.

[jin]

If you can keep up the manadenial, Pridemages can't hit the battlefield, since Zoo has a very nonbasic manabase. Still, they only run 2~3 Pridemages main deck, it's not very likely for them to have it. If they do enter the battlefield, you can hold your chalice and Pyrokinesis/Bolt the pridemage before laying it down.

I don't know, Goblin's mana denial plan isn't that consistant. I wouldn't try to rely on that. It just kinda shows up. Maybe because I'm not running the full set of 4 ports anymore.

Ah,.. my teammate runs 4x pridemage. I guess his deck isn't as traditional and is tuned to fight off Countertop and Vial decks..

[stumPen]

I`m very happy with my Solution against Zoo. Running 4 MWM main helps a lot and even in Control Match Ups MWM is a nice beater with my 3 Cheiftain main.
I normally side in 3 Perish and 3 Cabal Therapy which helps to slow Zoo down much faster. Last time my Zoo opponent was out of hand cards on turn 3 which was very nice.

Normally I run a 3c list for Cabal Therapy, Perish, Extirpate and Krosan Grip but I try to find a way to build just a 2c list. But i still like the Krosan Grip for early Dreadnoughts or mass stalling action from ThopterFoundry.

Any advise what to change. Here is my 3c list:

4 Badlands
2 Taiga
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland
2 Rishadan Port
4 Mountain

4 Goblin Lackey
4 Mogg War Marshal
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matrone
4 Goblin Ringleader
3 Goblin Piledriver
3 Goblin Chieftain
2 Sieg-Gang Commander
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirrorbreaker
3 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Warren Weirding
4 AEtherVial

SB:
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Perish
3 Krosan Grip
3 Extirpate
1 Stingscouger
1 Goblin Tinkerer

The next changes will be:
-1 WW
+1 Port
-1 Badland
+1 Wooded Foothills

Actually I like to play Lightning Bolt, too. But I can not find any place because the Plan B with MWM + Chieftain is petty amazing against AggroControl if they can handle my Piledriver. But without Survival and more CB I will go additionally to -1 Chieftain to have one Slot and of course -1 MWM +1 Piledriver

[jin]

I`m very happy with my Solution against Zoo. Running 4 MWM main helps a lot and even in Control Match Ups MWM is a nice beater with my 3 Cheiftain main.
I normally side in 3 Perish and 3 Cabal Therapy which helps to slow Zoo down much faster. Last time my Zoo opponent was out of hand cards on turn 3 which was very nice.

Normally I run a 3c list for Cabal Therapy, Perish, Extirpate and Krosan Grip but I try to find a way to build just a 2c list. But i still like the Krosan Grip for early Dreadnoughts or mass stalling action from ThopterFoundry.

Any advise what to change. Here is my 3c list:

4 Badlands
2 Taiga
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland
2 Rishadan Port
4 Mountain

4 Goblin Lackey
4 Mogg War Marshal
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matrone
4 Goblin Ringleader
3 Goblin Piledriver
3 Goblin Chieftain
2 Sieg-Gang Commander
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirrorbreaker
3 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Warren Weirding
4 AEtherVial

SB:
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Perish
3 Krosan Grip
3 Extirpate
1 Stingscouger
1 Goblin Tinkerer

The next changes will be:
-1 WW
+1 Port
-1 Badland
+1 Wooded Foothills

Actually I like to play Lightning Bolt, too. But I can not find any place because the Plan B with MWM + Chieftain is petty amazing against AggroControl if they can handle my Piledriver. But without Survival and more CB I will go additionally to -1 Chieftain to have one Slot and of course -1 MWM +1 Piledriver

Wow, you want to play Lightning Bolt along side Mogg War Marshal and Perish? You must really hate Zoo. In my experience even one or two Mogg War Marshalls (three in my previous main) and one or two Sting Scourgers are enough to beat Zoo. There late game really means nothing to Goblins. If you can push it to late game, you've won.

[stumPen]

Zoo was not main reason to put in MWM. MWM makes Gempalm, Chieftain, Piledriver and Cabal Therapy much more powerful. Also the alternative beat down plan via Cieftain und MWM is pretty amazing. Besides MWM is better for Dredge MU wich is pretty hard if the Dredge player is able to play and know its deck. Anyway ... the main reason is Cabal Therapy which sooooo powerfull with MWM. If you have a fast Therapy twice even Combo looks very sad. I really love that guy and my list. And thats why I wanna get some more opinions ...

Btw. yes Zoo everytime beats my ass before a change the main. Now i nearly have no problems.

[jin]

Zoo was not main reason to put in MWM. MWM makes Gempalm, Chieftain, Piledriver and Cabal Therapy much more powerful. Also the alternative beat down plan via Cieftain und MWM is pretty amazing. Besides MWM is better for Dredge MU wich is pretty hard if the Dredge player is able to play and know its deck. Anyway ... the main reason is Cabal Therapy which sooooo powerfull with MWM. If you have a fast Therapy twice even Combo looks very sad. I really love that guy and my list. And thats why I wanna get some more opinions ...

Btw. yes Zoo everytime beats my ass before a change the main. Now i nearly have no problems.

uhh,.. I think the main reason was because Mogg Fanatic wasn't as awesome anymore and MWM was the next best thing. I highly doubt it was because of Cabal Therapy as Therapy wasn't played until the Black splash became popular.. which if I recall was shortly after Mogg Fanatic's nerf and the introduction of Warren Weirding...

I think the synergies it has with Piledriver/Gempalm Incinerator/Chieftain are largely byproducts of its inclusion over Mogg Fanatic rather than the direct cause. Although, I still support Mogg Fanatic.

[Lorenzo767]

I have a question about the graveyard hate to play in SB i wan't to try Leyline of The Void instead of Tormod's/Relic what do you think about that?
Have anyone tested Leyline in the RB version's side???

[jin]

I have a question about the graveyard hate to play in SB i wan't to try Leyline of The Void instead of Tormod's/Relic what do you think about that?
Have anyone tested Leyline in the RB version's side???

lots of people..
go 10 pages back to 290.. Gobolord and a few others had a whole discussion about it..

[TheSleeper]

So what is the consensus over Lightning Bolt vs. Skirk/Sharpshooter package? I've ran 4 Bolt MD in previous months and been happy with it. However with a Sharpshooter list winning an SCG Open I'm beginning to wonder in which Meta it would thrive. Recently a couple of Elves decks have also popped up, which I found to be a horrible matchup without 'Shooter (haven't tested with him).

Also can anyone speak on how/when to use Skirk Prospector? Obviously he combos with Sharpshooter, but assuming you don't have one, how often do you use him to ramp into Ringleader/SCG? Other obvious uses I'm guessing involve block-sacrificing to avoid opponents lifelink/Jitte counters etc. Just wondering if there are other tricks I should know with him.

[Avatara]

I've play tested several matches vs Red Rock (Firesprout main deck) and I was playing the list that won Starcity games. The best cards I've used in the match-up where: my best cards were: Skirk Prospector, Rishadan Port, Siege-Gang Commander and Wasteland. The worst cards were: Gempalm Incinerator and Sharpshooter. I used Skirk Prospector to ramp into Matrons, Ringleaders, activate Siege-Gang and make Maelstrom Pulse fail on my tokens. The only thing that Sharpshooter did in that match-up was chump block and ping 1 damage to the face ones.

I also played a few games vs Eva Green but I couldn't win even a single game. Gempalm Incinerators didn't do anything in the match-up and the Tomb Stalkers were beating me really fast. Did I miss my Stingscourgers in that match-up!

[Vandalize]

You can use Prospector to activate Rishadan Port in the other player's upkeep if don't have enough mana to activate it, or a Lightning Bolt EOT when you're tapped out. You can sacrifice a Swords to Plowshares target and recover with Wort, Boggart Auntie. You can use for Jitte/Lifelink. Untaping Sharpshooter. Add 3 mana with Mogg War Marshal (and a lot of damage if Sharpshooter is on the battlefield). Sacrifice it, or any goblin, to remove Bridge From Below. Sacrifice it to add mana to SCG when there's a Moat laying arround. Or simply sacrifice to add mana.

[jrw1985]

Two weeks in a row! Goblins has once again won this week's SCG Open San Jose. And (once again) a 2nd Goblin deck made the top 8 also. Well done, gobbos.

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l..._Profiles.html

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

Vial Red has been doing very well lately

[jin]

You can use Prospector to activate Rishadan Port in the other player's upkeep if don't have enough mana to activate it, or a Lightning Bolt EOT when you're tapped out. You can sacrifice a Swords to Plowshares target and recover with Wort, Boggart Auntie. You can use for Jitte/Lifelink. Untaping Sharpshooter. Add 3 mana with Mogg War Marshal (and a lot of damage if Sharpshooter is on the battlefield). Sacrifice it, or any goblin, to remove Bridge From Below. Sacrifice it to add mana to SCG when there's a Moat laying arround. Or simply sacrifice to add mana.

is sacrificing a goblin worth it to port them down for a turn?
lol.. mogg war marshal is a pyretic ritual..
It seem slike skirk prospector's usefulness is limited... I'm still hesitant to include him in my list.

with my testing, I never want to sacrifice goblins for mana.. as the trade would be too great if I pitched a goblin to drop a warchief and then have that thing plowed later on. hmm,.. now that I think about it, i'm guessing I'm supposed to drop CA goblins like Ringleader and Matron.. although, I am still skeptical about throwing another goblin just to drop matron..

If i'm down on lands, I wouldn't want to drop ringleader anyway and matron wouldn't be helpful if I needed to pitch a goblin to drop a 3 drop..

[stumPen]

Its very strange to play Prospector. How many copier your are running? I think it is not worth to play him more than 1x. I why should I add a 1off Goblin which has totally less pressure on the board than any other Goblin (except Lackey in Lategame). I also never used matrone to get him. I still think SGC, Ringleader or even Kiki is a much better target for Matrone than a 1/1 mana Goblin.

[Justin]

is sacrificing a goblin worth it to port them down for a turn?
lol.. mogg war marshal is a pyretic ritual..
It seem slike skirk prospector's usefulness is limited... I'm still hesitant to include him in my list.

with my testing, I never want to sacrifice goblins for mana.. as the trade would be too great if I pitched a goblin to drop a warchief and then have that thing plowed later on. hmm,.. now that I think about it, i'm guessing I'm supposed to drop CA goblins like Ringleader and Matron.. although, I am still skeptical about throwing another goblin just to drop matron..

If i'm down on lands, I wouldn't want to drop ringleader anyway and matron wouldn't be helpful if I needed to pitch a goblin to drop a 3 drop..

I agree the Skirk's Prospector's usefulness is limited, but I like him as a one-of. Obviously, he combos really well with Sharpshooter to get your opponent to zero life. He can also be helpful with echo goblins that you are going to lose anyway, such as War Marshal and Stingscourger. He can also accelerate your deck early and allow you to keep some opening hands without Lackey or Vial. For example, you can drop Prospector on turn one. Then on turn two you can play a second land and then sac the Prospector to itself to cast a turn two Warchief. Then, you can go nuts on turn three by dumping out piledrivers, war marshals, etc. and go for a huge swing. Yeah, if you are playing against a deck with a bunch of removal or get hit by daze, you get get two-for-oned. However, against combo decks Propector improves your chances of attacking for lethal by turn three or four.