with warchief in play, you can convert tokens into piledrivers, MWMs, stingers etc. Yes it is limited, but by being creative, the things it can do can win you games. i know i did.
If you play a deck that doesn't have daze or doesn't have removal, you are pretty much only talking about combo. Every other deck in the format either plays removal or plays countermagic.Originally Posted by Justin
However, you make a good point in that it does improve the combo match up. That I like. You also bring up a good point where you can race combo even without lackey. This would make me consider putting skirk prospector on my sideboard to compliment my Lackey in the combo match up. I'd have to test it first of course as my sideboard is pretty packed....
If you have tokens and warchief in play, it sounds like you are already winning. You probably already have the mana to drop Piledriver, Mogg War Marshal and Stinger since they only cost 1 mana. I wouldn't sacrifice tokens for it at all.
Skirk Prospector opens a lot of options. With a Warchief and a couple of tokens next to it you can matron for a shooter/ringleader and cast it imediatly. You can also play your ringleader-gobbo's this way. I (almost) always want more mana when I play the deck.
I often matron for him when I am about to face a Jitte pre-board.
The point is: with Skirk Prospector, you can do a lot of extra things while it only takes one slot.
This is pretty much apropos of nothing, but I am building my first Legacy deck and obviously my first Goblins deck overall.
While searching creature type - Goblin, I came across Shrieking Mogg. Card looks useful in preventing an opposing alpha strike, and even slowing down some real big bads (Progenitus) for a turn. Has this card ever been considered, even as a 1-of Matron target? Only worth playing if you typically have Vial set at 2. Is that the case with most Goblins builds?
I credit this thread for my decision to build a Goblins deck. Thanks to all the posters for all the information they share.
bkwrds: I don't think I've ever seen Shrieking Mogg discussed here, and it never hurts to evaluate forgotten-about-cards. That said, Goblins decks are notoriously pretty tight. There are a handful of 'flex slots. These what I would say the most common flex slot uses are:
-Tin-Street Hooligan
-Weirding/Lightning Bolt
-Upping your MWM/Gempalm count
-tricks like Skirk/Sharpshooter, Kikki-Jikki or Wort
-Warren Instigator
So Shrieking Mogg will be competing with the above. Seems at its best when as you say, you have Vial on 2, you EOT vial it in, allowing you to Alpha Strike your opponent. This is IMO a pretty corner case. Some of the above will help you out of these 'stand-offs' (SCG, Sharpshooter, Kikki, Wort) while also being useful in other situations. At least when I've played Goblins, the longer the game goes, your Vials creep up to 3, then 4, even 5 counters. I wouldn't want to have to keep a Vial on 2 just to use a singleton Shrieking Mogg.
Only the heroic and the mad follow mountain goat trails.
Fair enough. The main attraction I saw wasn't the evasion it offered (Piledriver is better) or the ability to stave off your opponent's alpha (War Marshall seems better) but rather the ability to deal with NO/Progenitus, since it seems prevalent in my area... that is, from my exceptionally limited experience. Is Weirding your best out against Progenitus?
EDIT: Im an idiot, i totally thought it was tapping opponent's creatures only. That would be absurd...
Weirding is good. Progenitus is blue so double Piledriver alpha strike is pretty easy to pull off, especially since the fastest it comes out is turn 3 and you can just swarm them pretty easy.
Goblin Wardriver RR
Creature - Goblin Warrior U
Battle Cry (Whenever this creature attacks, each other attacking creature gets +1/+0 until end of turn)
2/2
Thoughts?
Seems like a worse Goblin Piledriver. I guess if one was looking for Drivers 5-6, this could be considered. Actually this might even fall behind Goblin Bushwhacker in terms of playability.
is this confirmed? there has been a lot of fake images regarding this goblin wardriver.
although if it is, i agree, it is just a more expensive piledriver, with weaker results.
I don't think that Goblin Wardriver will see play. Formore you get a "permanent" +1/+1 and haste for all of you goblins. It doesn't get reduced by Warchief like Piledriver does. Why would we possibly want to play it? It's no alpha strike enabler (Like Pyromancer and Piledriver) and it's really bad with a low amount of goblins on the board or as a top deck.
Goblin Wardriver would have been decent if the mana cost would be 1R. But now it's way to bad for legacy. There are alot better goblins to choose from, also it's way worse than Goblin Piledriver, and some Goblin decks that has had good results have been playing Goblin Piledriver as a 3off.
I don't know about everyone skepticism. I've been looking for more piledrivers for the combo match up as I've decided that if I don't want to pack any more non-goblin sideboard cards, I need a double piledriver hand to race combo. I average turn 4 kills without double piledriver. I'm thinking with more piledrivers, I could increase the odds of a possible turn 3 kill. I'm not sure though...
I'd be nice to have piledriver 5-7 for this purpose....
I don't think this makes the maindeck or even the sideboard. The RRcc keeps it from improving your combo matchup. Your best chance for a turn three kill is to get a turn two Warchief via Lackey or Prospector. With Piledriver, you can play them for R and dump as many as three of them (hasted) on the board by turn three. Wardriver still costs RR, whether you have a warchief or not. Plus, Piledriver adds +2 for each other attacking goblin, while Wardriver only adds +1. Wardriver may be good in Standard goblins, but it has no place in Legacy. At RR, I would rather play Warren Instigator.
I see more than others do because I know where to look.
Yeah, I just did the math. The RR really hurts its chancing in making the deck. I think Wizard has figured out how to make Goblins fair.. LOL. All of the possibly good goblins are now RRX.. That's annoying...
How can you possibly compare this guy to Piledriver? He isn't a bad Piledriver but (as Avatara said) a bad Chieftain. And I don't see any use in running more Chieftains. This card is not worth disussing about IMO.
Another question:
If you look at the 4 Goblin lists that made top8 at SCGs Open: All of them run about 5-6 removal while I always felt comfortable with not less than 8!
What do you guys think is the optimal number of remvoal we should run atm?
MountainCaverns, Lackey, Go.
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.
Just not good enough. Maybe if he was hasty and let you attack for 4 T2 with a T1 Lackey, but he isn't. Even if he was R1 instead of RR he still wouldn't be as good as Piledriver or MWM. Battlecry just isn't a good enough ability to justify a slot in a Legacy deck. Compared to other 2-drops...
Instigator has the same CMC and 2 good abilities, one of which is certainly better than Battlecry, yet he doesn't see much play.
MWM has a more flexible CMC and a better ability, yet he's not even an automatic 4-of.
Piledriver has a more flexible CMC and 2 abilities that are better than Battlecry. Auto-4-of. Not going to cut him for a Goblin Warrior any time soon.
I'm always looking forward to seeing cool, new goblins, but they're going to be few and far between from here on out. Getting Chieftain and Instigator in the last year was pretty generous if you ask me. We're never getting another Lackey or Piledriver so you can throw out the pipedreams of a 2 CMC gobo with protection from Green and a built-in Goblin Bombardment.
Another reason legacy goblins won't get better cards is that it only makes sense for WotC to print good goblins when they're releasing a Tribal-themed set. If they're not planning a Standard format where Goblins could be a viable contender then they're not going to print goblin cards that are going to cut the mustard in Legacy.
Sad but true, but at least we don't play Faeries, right?
Gempalm = 4 of (If you can't appreciate uncounterable burn that replaces itself, but can also play out a chump-blocker or attacker, well, you probably shouldn't be playing Magic).
Weirding - I used to run 3 when reanimator was the rage. Now I'm down to 2.
Stingscourger- Cut him when Survival was going crazy. I see no reason to reintroduce him to the deck since reanimator hasn't come back yet, nor has Show and Tell/Emrakul managed to make any significant impact.
Sharpshooter- Running 1 of him since the format seems more based around swarms right now.
That puts me in the 6-7 category. I feel like Goblins doesn't need to go too removal crazy since we've got the chump blockers to spare. Also, we don't mind wasting guys on the attack in order to get damage through (unlike Zoo which really needs to send its Cats through either an open or dominated board).
This is the exact same removal package that i am running right now. I don't really consider Sharpshooter as removal, so I think that 6 is the optimal number. Stingscourger just doesnt do enough for the deck.
How much removal do you think we need in the board? Right now i have 6 sweepers (3 Perish, 3 Pyrokenisis). Is this too much? Should I put a singleton Stingscourger in the SB for the random Emrakul and Iona?
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