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Thread: [DTB] Vial Goblins

  1. #6181
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    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

    Hi guys!
    This is my actually build

    // Lands
    3 [MM] Rishadan Port
    4 [TE] Wasteland
    4 [UNH] Mountain
    4 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
    3 [B] Badlands
    2 [ON] Wooded Foothills
    2 [A] Taiga

    // Creatures
    3 [LE] Gempalm Incinerator
    4 [AP] Goblin Ringleader
    4 [US] Goblin Lackey
    4 [US] Goblin Matron
    4 [SC] Goblin Warchief
    4 [ON] Goblin Piledriver
    2 [SC] Siege-Gang Commander
    2 [M10] Goblin Chieftain
    1 [PLC] Stingscourger
    1 [ON] Goblin Sharpshooter
    1 [LRW] Wort, Boggart Auntie
    1 [ON] Skirk Prospector

    // Spells
    4 [DS] AEther Vial
    3 [MOR] Warren Weirding

    // Sideboard
    SB: 4 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
    SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
    SB: 3 [TE] Perish
    SB: 1 [GP] Tin Street Hooligan
    SB: 4 [MR] Chalice of the Void

    My doubt are:
    MWM: i think it's great but i don't know what to remove form MD to play it...i think the only solution could be -1Wort -1 Chieftain -1 WW but i don't like this solution too much...the only of these three card that i could easely remove is the third WW...
    Gempalm: 3 or 4?
    For the MD this si enough..i'm happy of the other choice i made
    About the SB my doubt is if i have to play or not Pyrokinesis, and if yes wat can i leave? :/ Is it better than Perish?
    Is bettere to play 1 TSH in side and 1 Stinscourger in MD or vice-versa?

    Thank You Guys!

  2. #6182

    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

    Hey all,

    I run a pretty generic vial goblins build and I'm having trouble vs elves. My friend runs llanowar with elvish archdruids and then the massive creatures start coming out. Granted I do think that he built his deck strictly to counter goblins but its still annoying to constantly fight 3/3s and above with my 1/1s. Would you recommend running lords in the deck to help with the trades? He also runs token generators like Wolf-Skull Shaman, Wren's Run Packmaster, etc which just makes it harder to get any tempo.

  3. #6183
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    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

    @ Lorenzo:
    As I explained on the last page I'm a fan of TSH in MD , so you can put Stinger in SB.
    In a 3c-build with such a vulerable manabase, I'd suggest to avoid RR and RB manacosts...therfore you should better play MWM and kick wort, chieftain + X

    Quote Originally Posted by Morton_Salt View Post
    Hey all,

    I run a pretty generic vial goblins build and I'm having trouble vs elves. My friend runs llanowar with elvish archdruids and then the massive creatures start coming out. Granted I do think that he built his deck strictly to counter goblins but its still annoying to constantly fight 3/3s and above with my 1/1s. Would you recommend running lords in the deck to help with the trades? He also runs token generators like Wolf-Skull Shaman, Wren's Run Packmaster, etc which just makes it harder to get any tempo.
    Perish in board saves the day ;-) they don't stand a chance against 8:1-trades. Plus MWM in MD help you out with stalling them long enough.
    Mountain Caverns, Lackey, Go.

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  4. #6184
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    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by GoboLord View Post
    @ Lorenzo:
    As I explained on the last page I'm a fan of TSH in MD , so you can put Stinger in SB.
    In a 3c-build with such a vulerable manabase, I'd suggest to avoid RR and RB manacosts...therfore you should better play MWM and kick wort, chieftain + X



    Perish in board saves the day ;-) they don't stand a chance against 8:1-trades. Plus MWM in MD help you out with stalling them long enough.
    UHm i can do -1 Wort ( ) -1 Chieftain -1 WW or maybe is better to remove 2 Chieftain?
    I will try TSH in MD. What you think about the number of Gempalm? 3 or 4?

  5. #6185
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    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Lorenzo767 View Post
    UHm i can do -1 Wort ( ) -1 Chieftain -1 WW or maybe is better to remove 2 Chieftain?
    I will try TSH in MD. What you think about the number of Gempalm? 3 or 4?
    Well, I'm always in favor of more removal ( I even ran 8 for a while!) In the case of your list you should probably add warren weirding to have MD answers on huge creatures lik KotR/Emrakul/Progenitus/Dreadnough etc. This also depends on your metagame: if you don't expect those heavy-weight monsters you should do fine with 4 gempalm
    Mountain Caverns, Lackey, Go.

    If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.

  6. #6186
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    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Morton_Salt View Post
    Hey all,

    I run a pretty generic vial goblins build and I'm having trouble vs elves. My friend runs llanowar with elvish archdruids and then the massive creatures start coming out. Granted I do think that he built his deck strictly to counter goblins but its still annoying to constantly fight 3/3s and above with my 1/1s. Would you recommend running lords in the deck to help with the trades? He also runs token generators like Wolf-Skull Shaman, Wren's Run Packmaster, etc which just makes it harder to get any tempo.
    Elves has come a long way in a short time in Legacy and is actually worth addressing. It used to be such a freebie for Goblins. Now it's an actual fight. And it's never the same fight depending on what Elf build you have to deal with.

    Pyrokinesis in your sideboard is by far your best weapon, as it's quite capable of easily taking down three elves for 0 mana, netting you both a card and tempo boost. If you anticipate Elves, don't leave home without four. If you splash black, Perish is also similarly sexy.

    Against really crazy fast bullshit Elves, you might also consider Mindbreak Trap, but against more random bullshit or Natural Order-y builds, it's not worth it.

    When you don't get a Pyro, If they aren't running combo elves and are just running more random bullshit, then you've got to take out the problem elves. Goblin Sharpshooter can singlehandedly take down a lot of the bullshit if you can keep him from amassing multiple Lords through Gempalm Incinerator and whatever other removal you have (Scourger, Weirding, Whatever.)

    You also need to be aware of Natural Order into Progenitus. There's not a ton you can do about this if you're not running black for Perish, other than to create a favorable game state before it happens and try to outrace it with Piledrivers by picking off the support blockers.

    Quote Originally Posted by majikal View Post
    Damn it, Taco, that exactly sums up my opinion on the matter. I need to buy you a beer for that post.

  7. #6187

    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

    Funny you should mention elves. I just lost against an elf deck on MWS. Pyrokinesis and Perish are the important sideboard cards. Incinerator is great in the main, but Warren Weirding is pretty weak. Sharpshooter is, of course, good in this matchup. However, it's not as awesome as it once was because of the printing of so many more elf lords. A Sharpshooter/Skirk Prospector combo will give you a better chance to clear their board.

    You need to remove their early creatures. Kill their one-drop elves, such as Llanowars and Fyndhorns ASAP. You might be able to mana screw them if you can disrupt their early mana producers. Another things to do is to attack with Lackey into a 1/1 elf, even if you don't have creature removal. Against most decks, it is correct to hold your Lackey back if they have a blocker that you cannot deal with yet. Against elves, it will often be correct to attack with Lackey, force them to block with a 1/1 and make a trade. You don't want them to get their mana ramp going.
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  8. #6188
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    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

    Not when the entire deck is mana, you don't want that. All of your trades and removal will be tempo trades for them, and you're, and I quote, "pissing on the sun" when you try to slow their mana dorks. Unless you're clearing the way for a Lackey. You're the beatdown in this MU; they have Sylvan Messenger, Wolf-Skull Shaman, Elvish Visionary, and Imperious Perfect for CA and stemming the tide. On top of that, the modern ones us NO as a finisher. They have the stronger late-game plan than us - kill them quickly.
    Quote Originally Posted by ktkenshinx View Post
    The Reserved List is a) not legally binding, b) antiquated, c) broken, and d) preventative of maximum game enjoyment. Wizards will remove as many cards from that list as possible to increase the fun of their game. Using market research, they can find a balance between printing enough cards to lower a price from $40 to $15-$20, and not utterly ruining their value. This will be both an economically feasible AND sensible move.
    -ktkenshinx-

  9. #6189

    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

    You say that the entire deck is mana, but then you mention five cards (20 slots in the deck) that don't produce mana. If you can kill their mana elves and keep them off four mana, they could end up with a hand full of expensive casting cost spells that they cannot cast because they are mana screwed. Elf decks don't run many lands. I've played elf decks and I know their weaknesses. Against most elf variants, you are not the beatdown. They can go off a lot faster than goblins. You are half-right. Elves have the advantage in both the early game and late game. Goblins have the advantage in the midgame. You want to disrupt them early and then put them away with your goblin horde before they can recover.
    Last edited by Justin; 02-07-2011 at 02:03 PM.
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  10. #6190
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    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

    Went 5-4 at Legacy Open in Indi, nothing worth writing home about. Pretty happy with my list, just need to play better!

    // Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

    // Lands
    4 [R] Badlands
    4 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
    4 [MPR] Wasteland
    4 [ON] Mountain (3)
    3 [MM] Rishadan Port
    2 [ON] Wooded Foothills
    1 [ALA] Swamp (3)

    // Creatures
    3 [LE] Gempalm Incinerator
    4 [US] Goblin Lackey
    4 [7E] Goblin Matron
    4 [ON] Goblin Piledriver
    4 [AP] Goblin Ringleader
    4 [SC] Goblin Warchief
    2 [M10] Siege-Gang Commander
    1 [M10] Goblin Chieftain
    1 [CHK] Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
    1 [LRW] Wort, Boggart Auntie
    1 [ON] Goblin Sharpshooter
    3 [EVG] Mogg War Marshal
    1 [AT] Goblin Tinkerer

    // Spells
    4 [DS] AEther Vial
    2 [MOR] Warren Weirding

    // Sideboard
    SB: 1 [ON] Goblin Sharpshooter
    SB: 3 [6E] Perish
    SB: 3 [AL] Pyrokinesis
    SB: 3 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
    SB: 2 [ON] Patriarch's Bidding
    SB: 3 [US] Meltdown


    Patriarch's Bidding. . .wins. . . Got Tsabo's Decreed at the end up my draw, discarding 7 goblins. Top decked a Bidding, resolved. . with 17 cards left in my library. Swung for like 1000 damage. Won. vs Deedstill for what its worth.

    Meltdown was for Affinity, though I only played against it once, and game 2/3 my opponent mull'd into EPlague both games and kept complete shit, and lost.

    Played Zoo once, so Bidding and Perish did not pull their weight. . . .my opponent didnt activate Lavamancer because I had an untapped waste. . and if he tapped a land, in response I would waste it and he wouldn't get the mana. . .I couldn't make this shit up.

    Played the mirror once, and stomped him with turn 3 Chieftan, turn 4 sharpshooter game 1, and a Pyrokinesis game 2.

    Never sided in GY hate, dont know if its even worth the slot.

    Tinkerer is coming out and becoming something else. . .I'm thinking of messing around with a small white splash and trying Mirror Entity. . maybe a nifty white card in the board also.

    Overall, legacy opens are pretty lol. 270ish there I think? And it's like playing MWS in real life. Fun times. Had. . .3 friends top 32, and 2 top 16. . one missing top8 on breakers.

  11. #6191
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    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin View Post
    You want to disrupt them early and then put them away with your goblin horde before they can recover.
    As a former Survival Elves player, I must reinforce this. Use Pyrokinesis to take 2 or 3 mana dorks (specially if they are Priest of Titania or Elvish Archdruid, but Llanowar and Fyndhorn Elves are also fine), even if it is a 2-for-2 trade.

    Also, Warren Instigator is wonderful in this match. They cannot let it connect, it kills every mana elf and usually survives to tell the story, and even trades with a lord, what is a very bad trade for the elves player. Consider using 2 of them if if you anticipate elves.
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  12. #6192
    Stomping blue decks with "dead" decks, as usual.
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    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

    @Neuad: Your list is just an auto-loss against Combo? How's that MU for you?

    Resuming the Elves matchup. This is another one where Chalice of the Void is great (especially against Elfball). Chalice@1 stops all mana dudes (except Priest) and other trouble cards like Nettle Sentinel and Worldly Tutor. Sharpshooter and Pyrokinesis can deal with the rest of them.

  13. #6193
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    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

    Against non Belcher combo, I feel our best defense is to just run them over with an amazing hand.

  14. #6194
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    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Neuad View Post
    Against non Belcher combo, I feel our best defense is to just run them over with an amazing hand.
    Good luck with that. I prefer to plan for something other than the nuts.

  15. #6195
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    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

    There were other things I was more worried about at Indie then combo, with all the CB running around it wasnt big at all.

  16. #6196
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    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

    New Vial Goblins thread up. Continue the discussion there.

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