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Thread: [DTB] Vial Goblins

  1. #5621

    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

    i need to know to sideboard in and to sideboard out for the following decks
    Dredge
    Survival Vengevine
    Merfolk
    Countertop 4C
    Zoo
    Goblins
    Tes
    Lands
    Koga Clan forever, the best legacy team in L.A.

  2. #5622

    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by bakofried View Post
    In an effort to keep an open mind, what is the deal with "Skirk Prospector tech?" What does he do that makes him worth playing? (if I hear Kiki-combo someone will lose an earlobe)
    I saw some of Jim Davis' games last SCG Open and Prospecter definitely mattered. One game he killed his opponent with this awesome tutor chain with MWM and stuff that he couldn't have done without it. Also he combos very well with SGC and Sharpshooter. Hell, he is even really good against Dredge.

  3. #5623

    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

    Hey,

    Local legacy tournament tomorrow and the deck I have right now is a version of G.Lord's shown below. Even though I was able to split the finals during the previous one, I believe that my MUs were in my favor and I didn't play against anything that I shouldn't have plowed over except the last match: Bant ctrl, Goblins, Burn, Enchantress.

    The list that I used:

    Lands
    8 Waste / Port
    4 Mountain
    2 Taiga, 2 Badlands
    2 Arid Mesa
    4 Bloodstained Mire

    Core Gobs
    Vial, Lackey, Piledriver, Matron, Warchief, Ringleader, 2 SGC

    Other
    3 Lightning Bolt
    3 Gempalm
    2 Stingscourger
    3 MWM
    1 Tin-Street Hooligan

    SB
    3 Leyline otV
    3 Chalice otV
    3 Pyrokinesis
    3 Perish
    3 Nature's Claim

    Wanted to explore a few options but I thought I'd discuss it here:
    Prospector + Sharpshooter: We've been discussing about it quite frequently in the last few pages of this thread. I admit, I have yet watched the Boston 5k video of how it was used. What would you recommend taking out from my list to make room for the two? Tin-street + ?
    Mono / RG / RGB: I loved using tri color, it gave me so many options and tools in the board against all MUs. But if I do use prospector and sharpshooter, would tri color be a bit of a stretch?
    Pithing Needle: I want to include it in the board but I'm not quite sure what to take out for it from the sb. There are many answers for Survival in the board: leyline/perish/nature's claim/pithing needle/pyrokinesis - however, I doubt anyone would side in all of those. It's been echoed in the previous pages that we shouldn't move away from what we do best - overrun them with goblins. I'm sure there's a point that I would be overboarding. What would you side in with my cards? I do not know what the MD is like, there are always random decks popping up at the store. I would love to have a well rounded SB, being able to take care a wide range of decks.
    Extirpate: has anyone tried it in the board? It's great against many decks especially vengevine but would you run it?

  4. #5624

    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

    @ScatManx

    Are you able to post the link to where the Jim Davis vids are... I cant seem to find them...

    Cheers

  5. #5625
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    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by P-AiR View Post
    Wanted to explore a few options but I thought I'd discuss it here:
    Prospector + Sharpshooter: We've been discussing about it quite frequently in the last few pages of this thread. I admit, I have yet watched the Boston 5k video of how it was used. What would you recommend taking out from my list to make room for the two? Tin-street + ?
    I discussed this point with Scatman an he told suggested not to play Stingscourger. SO I'd just kick those 2 Scourgers for Skirk Prospector + Shooter (that's actually the removal-package that Scat and I run). Skirk is incredibly good if you are playing with Lightning Bolt, cause you dont have to leave lands untapped for it. Tin-Street in MD is just killer if you want to fight Jitte. Actually could also cange TSH for Goblin Chieftain (to have an tutorable answer to E-Plague), because Skirk Prospector gives you another card to fight Jitte (block + sacrifice before damage).

    Quote Originally Posted by P-AiR View Post
    Mono / RG / RGB: I loved using tri color, it gave me so many options and tools in the board against all MUs. But if I do use prospector and sharpshooter, would tri color be a bit of a stretch?
    Being 3-colored has got nothing to do with running Skirk + Shooter tech. It's just fine if you use them. I guess especially Skirk Prospector does well in lists with Wastelands + Port, cause he provides you with R mana no matter how many Pors/Wastes you have.

    Quote Originally Posted by P-AiR View Post
    Pithing Needle: I want to include it in the board but I'm not quite sure what to take out for it from the sb. There are many answers for Survival in the board: leyline/perish/nature's claim/pithing needle/pyrokinesis - however, I doubt anyone would side in all of those. It's been echoed in the previous pages that we shouldn't move away from what we do best - overrun them with goblins. I'm sure there's a point that I would be overboarding. What would you side in with my cards? I do not know what the MD is like, there are always random decks popping up at the store. I would love to have a well rounded SB, being able to take care a wide range of decks.
    I guess Nature's Claim takes care of many deck. The point with Pithing Needle is, that it's somehow good against many things, but it just can't turn boardpositions over. I guess in most cases an additional Goblin is more valuable than Pithing Needle.
    As it comes to fighting Vengevival I have worked out a strategy that works quite well for GW and GB (maybe for those Ooze-Combo too): I'd neither aim for their graveyard nor for their Survival, but for their MANA! Let me explain why:
    (1) Those decks run 4 Basiclands (at their bests!). Manadenial is a major gameplan of Goblins. Aiming at their lands makes it much more difficult for them to start those annoying Survival-chains.
    (2) Without Squee those decks can only generate cardquality with their Survival and not cardadvantage. The scary thing about Bant-Survival was that they were able to drop another Rhox War Monk or Goyf each and every turn cause they got back their Squee all the time. If we make sure that they don't have enough MANA (Noble Hierarchs, Nonbasics, Quirion Ranger, Birds of Paradise), we have nothing to fear from Survival of the Fittest (going into Ooze combo with no part on their hand costs 2BBGGG in total!)

    Quote Originally Posted by P-AiR View Post
    Extirpate: has anyone tried it in the board? It's great against many decks especially vengevine but would you run it?
    Not tested yet. I like to hear how you found it (if you gonna test it)


    Quote Originally Posted by dethangel666 View Post
    i need to know to sideboard in and to sideboard out for the following decks
    Dredge
    Survival Vengevine
    Merfolk
    Countertop 4C
    Zoo
    Goblins
    Tes
    Lands
    What about posting your list + sideboard first? Otherwise we don't know what you could possbly board in/out.
    Mountain Caverns, Lackey, Go.

    If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.

  6. #5626
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    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by partyx2000 View Post
    @ScatManx

    Are you able to post the link to where the Jim Davis vids are... I cant seem to find them...

    Cheers
    <embed src="http://blip.tv/play/AYKLiWYC" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="480" height="390" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed>

  7. #5627
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    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by partyx2000 View Post
    @ScatManx

    Are you able to post the link to where the Jim Davis vids are... I cant seem to find them...

    Cheers
    http://www.ggslive.com/videos.html

    Round 7

  8. #5628

    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

    Thanks Gobolord.

    Very good ideas there, I could try dropping the TSH and 2 stingscourgers for the Prospector+chieftain+sharpshooter.

    In theory, the sharpshooter combo seems lackluster - can't really take care of knights, mid game goyfs, or any other creatures that we're really afraid of unless we give up most if not all of our army.

    I'll also drop my 4th Port just to make sure I won't get mana screwed and replace it with a fetch then.

    a) I'm sure you and Scat have beaten this subject to death over PMs, but why not stingscourgers? Clears the way for lackey and can be vialed in.

    b) blood moon - going by your theory that survival only runs 4-5 basics would blood moon be good in the mu? Or is the only reason why it's not being mentioned is their pridemages?
    Last edited by P-AiR; 11-19-2010 at 01:39 PM. Reason: because I like you, man.

  9. #5629
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    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by GoboLord View Post
    I'd neither aim for their graveyard nor for their Survival, but for their MANA!
    I completely agree here. Hitting manasource (this counts using Pyroknesis to get rid of Noble and Quirion Ranger (and maybe getting a Fauna Shaman/Rootwalla or Mongrael in the process)).

    @Extirpate: Es stated, fighting the graveyard is no good. Keeping mana open is no good. Topdecking Extirpate is awful. And have your hate being "countered" by Vedillon Clique, just sucks.

    @jrw1985: thanks. I had forgotten that link...
    Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.

  10. #5630

    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

    Hey again guys, im going to a Legacy tournament on Sunday and have decided to play mono-red.
    I have tried all possible color combinations (RU, RG, RB, RGB), but never mono-red.

    I have no idea what the meta is, since the meta in Sweden is so random depending on where you are in the country, last time i was at a Legacy tournament in Stockholm i saw much Dredge, Dreadstill, Merfolk and Zoo.

    Here is the list.
    Maindeck:

    4 Goblin Lackey
    4 Goblin Matron
    4 Goblin Piledriver
    4 Goblin Ringleader
    4 Goblin Warchief
    3 Mogg War Marshal
    3 Gempalm Incinerator
    2 Siege-Gang Commander
    1 Goblin Sharpshooter
    1 Goblin Chieftain
    1 Skirk Prospector
    3 Lightning Bolt
    4 Aether Vial
    14 Mountain
    4 Rishadan Port
    4 Wasteland

    Sideboard:
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Leyline of the Void
    3 Pyrokinesis
    2 Blood Moon (There are much controll decks here that are very vulnerable to this card)
    1 Boartusk Liege
    1 Tuktuk Scrapper

    I got inspired by Gobbolord's result at the Dutch eternal tournament, and kinda copied his list.
    I've tested with Skirk Prospector before, but didn't like it. After watching Jim Davis video and practicing, i love it. It opens so many opportunities and is a really skillfull card, it creates so many choices to do.

    I try to not focus to much about the list i am playing, i just wanted a solid MD and SB and now i think i have found that.
    Because in the end, skill will help more than whatever list you are playing.

    But if there some improvments that you people think can be done, just Comment!

    Best regards, Anton.

  11. #5631

    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

    hey guys,

    After watching the vids, I'm still not completely sure on what the Prospector + Sharpshooter tech is... Can someone please explain how it works??

    Also a n00b question about the Prospector, can he sac himself to generate a floating mana?

    Cheers!

  12. #5632

    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

    The tech is in fact using the prospector to untap sharpshooter to clear your opponents creatures (and generating mana in the process). Works very good with creatures like MWM. For instance if you cast MWM with sharpshooter and prospector active you could get + R mana if you sac him + 2 tokens + 3 untaps for sharpshooter.

    To answer your second question, yes he can sac himself for R.

  13. #5633
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    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by partyx2000 View Post
    hey guys,

    After watching the vids, I'm still not completely sure on what the Prospector + Sharpshooter tech is... Can someone please explain how it works??

    Also a n00b question about the Prospector, can he sac himself to generate a floating mana?

    Cheers!
    Yeah what Dia_Bot says is right.

    //EDIT (thanks antonbysted):
    + With an active Sharphooter you oopnent x/3 creatures will die to your 1/x blockers.
    + With Skirk Prospector you can use mana out of your Goblins (to play Lightning Bolt or other removal) and keep your Wastelands free for detroying lands (like Jim Davis did in G1)
    + you can use Prospector to fight Jitte (block equipped creature, then sacrifice for R in blocker declare step. in damage step there is no creature left to deal damage to. So no counters for jitte)

    Well, actually those 3 points don't really belong to what we called the "Skirk Shooter tech". I want to point out that those cards are both good on their own.
    Mountain Caverns, Lackey, Go.

    If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.

  14. #5634

    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by GoboLord View Post
    Yeah what Dia_Bot says is right.
    + With an active Sharphooter you oopnent x/2 creatures will die to your 1/x blockers.
    + With Skirk Prospector you can use mana out of your Goblins (to play Lightning Bolt or other removal) and keep your Wastelands free for detroying lands (like Jim Davis did in G1)
    + you can use Prospector to fight Jitte (block equipped creature, then sacrifice for R in blocker declare step. in damage step there is no creature left to deal damage to. So no counters for jitte)

    Well, actually those 3 points don't really belong to what we called the "Skirk Shooter tech". I want to point out that those cards are both good on their own.
    His x/3 creatures will trade witn your 1/1.

  15. #5635
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    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by P-AiR View Post
    I'll also drop my 4th Port just to make sure I won't get mana screwed and replace it with a fetch then.
    Good idea. The 4th Port is excactly what I found annoying in the Rbg build. One more fetchland makes your manafixing saver.

    Quote Originally Posted by P-AiR View Post
    a) I'm sure you and Scat have beaten this subject to death over PMs, but why not stingscourgers? Clears the way for lackey and can be vialed in.
    We've actually not discussed very long about it. It's more that we come to the same conclusions very quickly :-)
    @ Stingscourger: Both of us felt that those Flexoble Slots are the best in mono R without Skirk-Shooter-tech:

    4 Gempalm Incinerator
    3 Lightning Bolt
    1 Stingscourger
    3 Mogg War Marshal
    1 Goblin Chieftain

    However, if I were to cut 2 cards to add "Skirk-Shooter" I'd cut the 4th Gempalm and the Stingscourger. Especialy when running the tech you don't want to kick neither MWM nor Chieftain (providing haste).
    I don't know what Scat is thinking about it (I just copied his removal-package), but I felt that Gempalm + Stingscourger are the cards you side out the most after G1. That's why I consider them the weakest removal-slots. Knights and Goyfs can be scary, yes. But as long they don't fly or trample you can just chumpblock them. If you read Scat's report you'll even find a passage where he was able to kill a Knight with Lightning Bolt. And you must realize that Stingscourger doesn't completely remove a creature, he's only bouncing them.

    Quote Originally Posted by P-AiR View Post
    b) blood moon - going by your theory that survival only runs 4-5 basics would blood moon be good in the mu? Or is the only reason why it's not being mentioned is their pridemages?
    Excactly. That's why don't like Leyline or Relic or Crypt or Pithing Needle in this MU. Some of those decks even bring in Krosan Grip to have more ways to beat Crypt/Relic/Pithing Needle. So another Enchantment would just pump your opponent's Goyfs.
    Mountain Caverns, Lackey, Go.

    If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.

  16. #5636
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    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

    Is it conclusive to say that running a mono-red deck without sting-prospector more reliable in an unknown meta?

  17. #5637
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    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by raindrainxi View Post
    Is it conclusive to say that running a mono-red deck without sting-prospector more reliable in an unknown meta?
    I'd agree with this. Phyrexian Dreadnaught and Emrakul and common in my meta. I maindeck Stingscourger. If they weren't here, odds are I probably wouldn't.

  18. #5638
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    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by RaNDoMxGeSTuReS View Post
    I'd agree with this. Phyrexian Dreadnaught and Emrakul and common in my meta. I maindeck Stingscourger. If they weren't here, odds are I probably wouldn't.
    Oops, sorry mate. I meant shooter-prospector. I occasionally use the scourger to deal with merfolk's commander, and another bodyguard for the first-turn lackey. But I'd probly limit it to 1 max.

  19. #5639

    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

    Just came back from a 3-1-1 record at a local 22-man legacy tournament.

    I played against Bant Ctrl, Burn, Enchantress, Belcher (loss) , and drew against Supreme Blue. Played Belcher in the top 8 and beat him and split the prizes top 4.

    I ran a black version of Scatman's list with the addition of Perish with the SB:
    3 Perish
    3 Pyrokinesis
    3 Nature's Claim
    3 Chalice of the Void
    1 Boartusk Liege
    1 Vexing Shusher
    1 Goblin Pyromancer

    I'm really liking the prospector + sharpshooter but I didn't get a lot of chance to try it out. But prospector was all-star against burn.

    Thinking of swapping perish with extirpates. But maybe I was just lucky because I didn't play any of the 4 Rocks in the tourney.

  20. #5640

    Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

    What's Goblin Pyromancer for?
    Other aggro decks? has it had good results?

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